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Post by Feyrhausen on Apr 15, 2023 17:32:49 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}I'll be honest, as late 80s/early 90s as it is to a point, I miss the design philosophy of the Ent-D bridge and the interiors of that ship in general. It's really the only starship that's seemingly kept creature comforts in mind for what's supposed to be a long haul, expeditionary vessel, and it's really the only Star Trek starship that feels like it would be actually comfortable to be on for an extended mission. I think I may also just be tired of the lingering wartime aesthetic from First Contact and Deep Space 9 which admittedly makes sense in-universe but out of universe to a point feels like kowtowing to all the fans who were like lol the enterprise looks like a hotel as if that's a bad thing for the ship's intended role as an exploratory and essentially diplomatic vessel.
To pull some real world comparisons into this rant, the hospital at which I'm currently working, was rebuilt in 1991 and has a very similar vibe, in the sense of the public areas of the place being very airy with lots of natural light and plants and natural materials and essentially the same color palette as the Ent-D bridge. Yes, it looks like a mall, yes it looks very early 90s, but it's just weirdly cozy in a way hospitals almost never are. I'll contrast that with another hospital I was at briefly, which is a nationally known institution that really wants to make sure you know that they're a nationally known institution. They just rebuilt their main lobby within the last few years, and while it's impressive in a monumental sort of way, it's polished stone and glass and hard surfaces and makes me think 'cavernous airport terminal' more than anything else. I assume they weren't literally going for 'cold and clinical', but basically, this is how I feel about the newer bridge and starship interior aesthetic, right down to the seeming unwillingness to properly illuminate things. There are some various lore channels on youtube that like to add backstory and context to certain ships. One of them, might have been Triangulum or Lore Reloaded, described the mood and moment the Federation was in with the Galaxy-class ships. No conflicts, relative peace with the Romulans in hiding and a firm peace treaty with the Klingons, and so the Galaxy-class ships reflected that optimistic sense of peace. I always liked that. What did you think of the ever so briefly seen refit of the Enterprise-D on Generations? That was probably my favorite, updating it to a more serious tone while keeping a lot of the softer aesthetics. I liked the look of the refit bridge but felt it was unnecessary. The ship was going to be replaced anyway so why go to the trouble. It was something they wanted for the show but the cost of extras to man the stations would have been too much. Anyway I liked the idea that the tech was advanced enough to control a ship like that with a minimum of people and controls. |
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,677
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Post by Burst on Apr 15, 2023 17:40:22 GMT -5
What did you think of the ever so briefly seen refit of the Enterprise-D on Generations? That was probably my favorite, updating it to a more serious tone while keeping a lot of the softer aesthetics. Agreed about the lore context for the D interior, and about the Generations version being my personal favorite version as well. It pretty much smoothed out the less practical vestiges that hadn't already been smoothed out over the course of TNG, and added functionality to areas that never really seemed to serve much purpose (e.g. the side stations added in place of the lockers or whatever those were supposed to be between the turbolifts) without seeming gratuitous. (For gratuitous, I'm thinking in the sense of how any time they needed an alternate Enterprise bridge during TNG they'd just add doodads here or there on the set that were just kind of there to be different). Also, putting the command chairs on the riser kind of helped visually balance out the bridge that could seem a bit flat at times, without becoming too much of a tripping hazard. And while I don't think it was ever canon at any point in time, I do like the fan depictions of the white part of the ceiling having the option to act as a window and showing the starfield. |
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Post by The Captain on Apr 15, 2023 18:03:43 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}I'll be honest, as late 80s/early 90s as it is to a point, I miss the design philosophy of the Ent-D bridge and the interiors of that ship in general. It's really the only starship that's seemingly kept creature comforts in mind for what's supposed to be a long haul, expeditionary vessel, and it's really the only Star Trek starship that feels like it would be actually comfortable to be on for an extended mission. I think I may also just be tired of the lingering wartime aesthetic from First Contact and Deep Space 9 which admittedly makes sense in-universe but out of universe to a point feels like kowtowing to all the fans who were like lol the enterprise looks like a hotel as if that's a bad thing for the ship's intended role as an exploratory and essentially diplomatic vessel.
To pull some real world comparisons into this rant, the hospital at which I'm currently working, was rebuilt in 1991 and has a very similar vibe, in the sense of the public areas of the place being very airy with lots of natural light and plants and natural materials and essentially the same color palette as the Ent-D bridge. Yes, it looks like a mall, yes it looks very early 90s, but it's just weirdly cozy in a way hospitals almost never are. I'll contrast that with another hospital I was at briefly, which is a nationally known institution that really wants to make sure you know that they're a nationally known institution. They just rebuilt their main lobby within the last few years, and while it's impressive in a monumental sort of way, it's polished stone and glass and hard surfaces and makes me think 'cavernous airport terminal' more than anything else. I assume they weren't literally going for 'cold and clinical', but basically, this is how I feel about the newer bridge and starship interior aesthetic, right down to the seeming unwillingness to properly illuminate things. There are some various lore channels on youtube that like to add backstory and context to certain ships. One of them, might have been Triangulum or Lore Reloaded, described the mood and moment the Federation was in with the Galaxy-class ships. No conflicts, relative peace with the Romulans in hiding and a firm peace treaty with the Klingons, and so the Galaxy-class ships reflected that optimistic sense of peace. I always liked that. What did you think of the ever so briefly seen refit of the Enterprise-D on Generations? That was probably my favorite, updating it to a more serious tone while keeping a lot of the softer aesthetics. It did seem like the Sovereign-class Enterprise E had its fair share of creature comforts. Just that we only had 3 movies with her instead of 7 seasons' worth of television so there wasn't a whole lot of time to really see the more leisurely aspects of the ship beyond the lounge in Insurrection. There also seems to be a case of DRAMATIC LIGHTING for the movies' interiors so they're darker, especially when it's Red Alert time. Like when Voyager's bridge got really dark during battlestations.
The E's bridge also seemed pretty spacious.
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,673
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Post by schma on Apr 16, 2023 0:25:31 GMT -5
While I do enjoy the slick sets of the more modern ships I think the brighter ships have their place. The Federation was supposed to be aspirational. This was imagining a future for Earth where we got over our shit and learned to work together, expanding that to working together with other races as well. I feel like the brighter lights during non red alert moments is fitting for what Starfleet was meant to be. As time has gone on, the focus has fallen away from exploration and become more militaristic (even TNG had those times where rank and insubordination were treated pretty harshly). While I am loving Picard, part of why Strange New Worlds is so well received is that it brings back some of that feeling of yeah, the humans got their shit together and now they're exploring for the sake of learning.
I'd prefer brighter ships that go darker for red/yellow alerts personally, but I realize the 2000s have all been about various levels of grim dark in anything futuristic. It's just that I cut my teeth on TNG and I can get grim dark anywhere.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Apr 16, 2023 0:40:15 GMT -5
While I do enjoy the slick sets of the more modern ships I think the brighter ships have their place. The Federation was supposed to be aspirational. This was imagining a future for Earth where we got over our shit and learned to work together, expanding that to working together with other races as well. I feel like the brighter lights during non red alert moments is fitting for what Starfleet was meant to be. As time has gone on, the focus has fallen away from exploration and become more militaristic (even TNG had those times where rank and insubordination were treated pretty harshly). While I am loving Picard, part of why Strange New Worlds is so well received is that it brings back some of that feeling of yeah, the humans got their shit together and now they're exploring for the sake of learning. I'd prefer brighter ships that go darker for red/yellow alerts personally, but I realize the 2000s have all been about various levels of grim dark in anything futuristic. It's just that I cut my teeth on TNG and I can get grim dark anywhere. I've been watching clips here and there of season 3, and I legitimately wondered if these scenes were made intentionally dark as a joke. Like was my phone's brightness lower than I realized? Am I watching one of those recordings off a TV? Is youtube being weird? It was so unlike TNG. With that moron JJ Abrams, we got constant lens flares, too much brightness, but with Picard it seemed to be obnoxiously dark. |
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,673
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Post by schma on Apr 16, 2023 1:01:13 GMT -5
While I do enjoy the slick sets of the more modern ships I think the brighter ships have their place. The Federation was supposed to be aspirational. This was imagining a future for Earth where we got over our shit and learned to work together, expanding that to working together with other races as well. I feel like the brighter lights during non red alert moments is fitting for what Starfleet was meant to be. As time has gone on, the focus has fallen away from exploration and become more militaristic (even TNG had those times where rank and insubordination were treated pretty harshly). While I am loving Picard, part of why Strange New Worlds is so well received is that it brings back some of that feeling of yeah, the humans got their shit together and now they're exploring for the sake of learning. I'd prefer brighter ships that go darker for red/yellow alerts personally, but I realize the 2000s have all been about various levels of grim dark in anything futuristic. It's just that I cut my teeth on TNG and I can get grim dark anywhere. I've been watching clips here and there of season 3, and I legitimately wondered if these scenes were made intentionally dark as a joke. Like was my phone's brightness lower than I realized? Am I watching one of those recordings off a TV? Is youtube being weird? It was so unlike TNG. With that moron JJ Abrams, we got constant lens flares, too much brightness, but with Picard it seemed to be obnoxiously dark. It feels like each iteration of Star Trek (live action at least) has gotten darker. I love some dark plots, one of the best things about DS9 were some of the deeply questionable things they did in the dominion war and simply by virtue of being on the frontier under constant threat of attack. But at the end of the day, I don't need Star Wars lite, or some other dystopian future. I got basically every other sci-fi made in the past 20 years for that.
But yeah, aesthetically, it seems the ships in general have gotten much darker.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 16, 2023 1:06:10 GMT -5
I've been watching clips here and there of season 3, and I legitimately wondered if these scenes were made intentionally dark as a joke. Like was my phone's brightness lower than I realized? Am I watching one of those recordings off a TV? Is youtube being weird? It was so unlike TNG. With that moron JJ Abrams, we got constant lens flares, too much brightness, but with Picard it seemed to be obnoxiously dark. {Spoiler}The showrunner stated a few weeks back that it's been lit that way for a reason. Most people are making the conclusion now it's to make the Enterprise-D contrast even further.
Looking at the preview clip from the finale, there's still the more modern dramatic lighting, but the D's bridge absolutely pops in comparison to all the others in the season so far. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 16, 2023 2:19:45 GMT -5
{Spoiler} Between the IMAX screenings and this, Paramount sure can't be faulted for their effort getting eyes on the show. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 16, 2023 12:44:01 GMT -5
I've been watching clips here and there of season 3, and I legitimately wondered if these scenes were made intentionally dark as a joke. Like was my phone's brightness lower than I realized? Am I watching one of those recordings off a TV? Is youtube being weird? It was so unlike TNG. With that moron JJ Abrams, we got constant lens flares, too much brightness, but with Picard it seemed to be obnoxiously dark. It feels like each iteration of Star Trek (live action at least) has gotten darker. I love some dark plots, one of the best things about DS9 were some of the deeply questionable things they did in the dominion war and simply by virtue of being on the frontier under constant threat of attack. But at the end of the day, I don't need Star Wars lite, or some other dystopian future. I got basically every other sci-fi made in the past 20 years for that.
But yeah, aesthetically, it seems the ships in general have gotten much darker.
Dark for TOS/TNG/DS9 writers was about tone and subject matter, handled in a mature, challenging and thoughtful manner. Dark for modern Trek writers is about switching off the lights. |
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,347 
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Post by CMWaters on Apr 16, 2023 16:20:06 GMT -5
An interesting viewpoint I found (yes, IGN, but this isn't a video game so might be OK.)
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Post by Feyrhausen on Apr 16, 2023 16:26:53 GMT -5
It feels like each iteration of Star Trek (live action at least) has gotten darker. I love some dark plots, one of the best things about DS9 were some of the deeply questionable things they did in the dominion war and simply by virtue of being on the frontier under constant threat of attack. But at the end of the day, I don't need Star Wars lite, or some other dystopian future. I got basically every other sci-fi made in the past 20 years for that.
But yeah, aesthetically, it seems the ships in general have gotten much darker.
Dark for TOS/TNG/DS9 writers was about tone and subject matter, handled in a mature, challenging and thoughtful manner. Dark for modern Trek writers is about switching off the lights. Now thats not fair. Dark for modern Trek writers is also about swears and excessive violence. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 16, 2023 17:16:04 GMT -5
According to Frakes, in the finale {Spoiler} "Nobody dies."Makes sense. Nobody wants to see any of these characters die, especially after they've tied themselves in knots bringing Data back, and the deaths of Shaw, Ro, and Shelby should more than suffice. Though in the same interview he does hint at continued involvement for Shaw should Legacy get made. |
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,347
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Post by CMWaters on Apr 16, 2023 17:19:23 GMT -5
According to Frakes, in the finale {Spoiler}{Spoiler} "Nobody dies."Makes sense. Nobody wants to see any of these characters die, especially after they've tied themselves in knots bringing Data back, and the deaths of Shaw, Ro, and Shelby should more than suffice. Though in the same interview he does hint at continued involvement for Shaw should Legacy get made. {Spoiler}Perhaps Shaw gets revived similar to how Neelix was in "Mortal Coil" thanks to Seven and Raffi, and if Legacy gets made part of the story would deal with his post-resurrected life and learning how to deal with being partially helped by that which he hated for so long. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 16, 2023 17:39:56 GMT -5
{Spoiler}Perhaps Shaw gets revived similar to how Neelix was in "Mortal Coil" thanks to Seven and Raffi, and if Legacy gets made part of the story would deal with his post-resurrected life and learning how to deal with being partially helped by that which he hated for so long. {Spoiler}Yeah, that seems to be a popular idea in the fandom. It would be a little cheap, given the sacrifice Shaw made and his final acceptance of Seven as who she truly is, but it would make things interesting and restore some of the tension between them should the show get made.
Still, they appear to have captured lightning in a bottle with Shaw, and it would make sense to capitalise on it. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 16, 2023 20:11:16 GMT -5
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Post by thechase on Apr 17, 2023 10:28:37 GMT -5
According to Frakes, in the finale {Spoiler}{Spoiler} "Nobody dies."Makes sense. Nobody wants to see any of these characters die, especially after they've tied themselves in knots bringing Data back, and the deaths of Shaw, Ro, and Shelby should more than suffice. Though in the same interview he does hint at continued involvement for Shaw should Legacy get made. {Spoiler}Frakes also confirms Worf's son Alexander is involved somehow in the set-up for Legacy, so I guess that's another cameo confirmed. Jack will also become part of the bridge crew and Seven is the acting captain going forward |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 18, 2023 18:36:06 GMT -5
A review of the finale was accidentally published early on the New York Observer, which has since been pulled. {Spoiler} |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 18, 2023 20:43:58 GMT -5
The soundtrack releases today.
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Post by thechase on Apr 19, 2023 0:27:17 GMT -5
The review from the Observer is as usual full of the tired old 'fanservice kills everything' spiel...although fair dues to them, I've seen a lot of grouchy Trek fans use episode nine last week as a means of 'fuelling' the want to see Picard to fail at the last hurdle.
Finale trailer
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 19, 2023 2:20:03 GMT -5
The review from the Observer is as usual full of the tired old 'fanservice kills everything' spiel...although fair dues to them, I've seen a lot of grouchy Trek fans use episode nine last week as a means of 'fuelling' the want to see Picard to fail at the last hurdle. While I agree that there's definitely been a fanservice overload in this season, it's been a welcome change from the first two seasons giving little bits here and there, usually followed by the death of a legacy character. {Spoiler}As for the Legacy spinoff pitch, I'm mostly good with it. I'm not crazy about the Titan being the next Enterprise, as I think it does both ships' lineages a disservice, especially when the F is right there. Even giving the D a 25th century refit could work.
More Q is very welcome. |
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