|
Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Aug 6, 2018 14:37:04 GMT -5
Heel Disciples of Apocalypse with “Mr. Dot Com” Paul Ellering
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on Aug 6, 2018 14:40:59 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure there is still a toy store somewhere in the World with a bunch of Dr. Death figures warming the pegs. I worked at Bradlees. I remember there being like 40 Dr Death figures and I never remember anyone actually buying one.
|
|
|
Post by disorganisedchaos v:2 on Aug 6, 2018 14:47:40 GMT -5
Heel Disciples of Apocalypse with “Mr. Dot Com” Paul Ellering I have memories of Fully Loaded'98 (I've not watched since about 2001) of DOA vs LOD 2000 and nobody being over in that match.
|
|
schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,546
|
Post by schma on Aug 6, 2018 14:50:14 GMT -5
I think there were a few guys who failed to find a gimmick that connected. As much as people remember King Mabel getting booed and not caring about Viscera, he had been over when Men on a Mission first hit. The thing was when the Ministry of Darkness broke up, that was the time to reset gimmicks. Groups like the APA remade themselves and got over. Mideon started streaking because reasons, Viscera kept the gimmick for several more years and people didn't care. These guys had been the mooks of a stable and now were doing the exact same thing. Heck Gangrel post Brood just seemed silly. I mean the Brood itself wasn't a great gimmick, though it got us introduced to Christian and Edge but then they went their way and Gangrel just kept doing the same thing.
I was actually a fan of T&A eventually but then I'd been a fan of Test before that.
Hardcore Holly working with Crash definitely got him over to a degree. Them spending a show just beating the crap out of each other went over huge with a lot of guys I was in high school with. However, I don't know that it translated to overness in general.
Chaz post Headbangers was just kinda there. Wasn't really sure why he was wrestling in boxers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 15:25:04 GMT -5
I was doing an attitude era rewatch recently and was shocked at just how many people got no reaction. I think I had a false memory of everyone being over during that time but those 1998 In Your House shows in particular were full of matches with dead crowds.
If it wasn’t for DX and the Nation the midcard at the time would have been a complete shambles because the rest were dire.
No one in the tag division was over other than the NAO. Headbangers/DOA/Boricuas/Godwinns/Too Much/Kaientai. Even LOD 2000 were getting nothing after about a month into their comeback.
No one cared about bland “legit tough guys” Dan Severn/Steve Williams/Steve Blackman.
Taka Michinoku was doing his damnedest to put on great matches and was constantly met with apathy.
Bradshaw and Bob Holly were lucky Vince liked them because they weren’t being employed for their overness at this point.
Jeff Jarrett got nothing until late ’98 when he was paired with Debra. Marc Mero similarly only got a reaction when it involved Sable.
Faarooq post-Nation and Dustin Runnels post-Goldust were dead in the water.
And the one that shocked me the most for some reason was Gangrel. I had memories of him as a great midcard act and being pretty damn ever. It was all a lie. I watched back his entire run with the company. He was never over. Still had a cool entrance though.
|
|
salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,356
|
Post by salz4life on Aug 6, 2018 16:25:42 GMT -5
The Hardy Boyz before their make-over were the jobbiest couple of jobbers who ever jobbed. Chaz was never over on his own, before or after Beaver Cleavage. Tiger Ali Singh killed crowds deader than anyone not named Rob Conway (and in Conway's case at least it eventually became a meme). Kurt Angle's initial baby face push before they smartly realized to turn him heel. Make no mistake, no matter how many retcons they try to do, Kurt was NOT supposed to be hated the way he was. Big Show in that weird period where he got kicked out of the corporation and became Undertaker's sidekick. Oddly enough I'd say the ridiculous Boss Man feud finally lit a fire under his ads, at least for a bit. When was he not a heel? In his debut match at Survivor Series 1999, they had him get on the mic to tell the crowd they shouldn't boo him because he was an Olympic gold medalist. I was going to ask about this. I don't remember him being a heel when he debuted.
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,808
|
Post by cjh on Aug 6, 2018 16:34:32 GMT -5
When was he not a heel? In his debut match at Survivor Series 1999, they had him get on the mic to tell the crowd they shouldn't boo him because he was an Olympic gold medalist. I was going to ask about this. I don't remember him being a heel when he debuted. His vignettes prior to his first match had him talking about his accomplishments and the 3 I's in a heelish way, too. He did have a one-off appearance in March 1999 on Heat as a babyface in a segment with Tiger Ali Singh, but he was treated as if he was attending the show as a fan (even though he was wrestling in the Memphis developmental group at the time).
|
|
salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,356
|
Post by salz4life on Aug 6, 2018 16:38:18 GMT -5
I was going to ask about this. I don't remember him being a heel when he debuted. His vignettes prior to his first match had him talking about his accomplishments and the 3 I's in a heelish way, too. He did have a one-off appearance in March 1999 on Heat as a babyface in a segment with Tiger Ali Singh, but he was treated as if he was attending the show as a fan (even though he was wrestling in the Memphis developmental group at the time). Yeah, I remember the one off with Tiger Ali Singh. That was in Pittsburgh wasn't it?
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on Aug 6, 2018 16:40:41 GMT -5
I was going to ask about this. I don't remember him being a heel when he debuted. His vignettes prior to his first match had him talking about his accomplishments and the 3 I's in a heelish way, too. He did have a one-off appearance in March 1999 on Heat as a babyface in a segment with Tiger Ali Singh, but he was treated as if he was attending the show as a fan (even though he was wrestling in the Memphis developmental group at the time). Angle was absolutely 100% supposed to be a heel coming from his first vignette onward.
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,808
|
Post by cjh on Aug 6, 2018 17:02:29 GMT -5
His vignettes prior to his first match had him talking about his accomplishments and the 3 I's in a heelish way, too. He did have a one-off appearance in March 1999 on Heat as a babyface in a segment with Tiger Ali Singh, but he was treated as if he was attending the show as a fan (even though he was wrestling in the Memphis developmental group at the time). Angle was absolutely 100% supposed to be a heel coming from his first vignette onward. Yeah, although Angle has said that he was not told to grab the mic and go after the fans in his debut match until Vince called for it after the match had started.
|
|
Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,372
|
Post by Push R Truth on Aug 6, 2018 17:18:47 GMT -5
Quick, name one Los Boricuas (spelling is probably wrong but I don't care) outside of Savio Vega
I tried and failed
|
|
|
Post by Nickybojelais on Aug 6, 2018 18:01:55 GMT -5
Yeah there is no way Kurt Angle was portrayed as anything but a heel. Calling him the first "real athlete" in the WWF on his promo video was definitely not something they would do for a face. It's such a smug, pretentious and condescending video, there is no way they were pushing him as a face.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 18:06:03 GMT -5
Yeah there is no way Kurt Angle was portrayed as anything but a heel. Calling him the first "real athlete" in the WWF on his promo video was definitely not something they would do for a face. It's such a smug, pretentious and condescending video, there is no way they were pushing him as a face. Yeah, Angle was "Bolieve!" Bo Dallas 15 or 16 years before Bo.
|
|
|
Post by 06vwgti on Aug 6, 2018 18:15:50 GMT -5
As good as she was, Jacqueline was never truly over. She wasn't the typical blond hair bimbo for that era. After his first few months, Steve Blackmon didn't get many pops. Also, the entire NWA "invasion" group. It's so weird, watching attitude era stuff of steve blackman and dan severn during the summer of 98 and enjoying both. But it could be nostalgia clouding it. I think those two would work great in this era as badasses in the minoru suzuki type character. I wonder if wwf neutered jacqueline hurt her in the eyes of the fans. I started watching during the summer of 98 and she was my first wrestling crush heh, but her feud with sable while it was trash tv, made her and mero look like goobers who couldn't even do the most basic heel things to get an advantages over sable. From her wcw run I watched on the network she seemed very over attacking jobbers with clotheslines and body slamming them from the get-go. With chyna being in wwf and jacqueline being a foot or so shorter probably didnt help either in addition to not being blonde. I just remember those brief encounters between jacqueline and chyna and those times jacqueline was portrayed as a weak joke.
|
|
|
Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Aug 6, 2018 18:23:42 GMT -5
Quick, name one Los Boricuas (spelling is probably wrong but I don't care) outside of Savio Vega I tried and failed Miguel, Jesus, and Jose. And not a one of them were over.
|
|
|
Post by The Rick Jericho on Aug 6, 2018 18:23:48 GMT -5
Quick, name one Los Boricuas (spelling is probably wrong but I don't care) outside of Savio Vega I tried and failed Jose Jesus Miguel Edge broke one of their necks.
|
|
Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,632
|
Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 6, 2018 18:24:33 GMT -5
Quick, name one Los Boricuas (spelling is probably wrong but I don't care) outside of Savio Vega I tried and failed Uh... - Shave-your-back man - Old guy - Edge-injured-me
|
|
Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
Posts: 11,098
|
Post by Urethra Franklin on Aug 6, 2018 18:24:36 GMT -5
Was non-DX Billy Gunn over?
I remember him being in high-profile feuds, but I don’t think he ever held up his end of the bargain with guys like The Rock.
|
|
|
Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Aug 6, 2018 19:19:42 GMT -5
As good as she was, Jacqueline was never truly over. She wasn't the typical blond hair bimbo for that era. After his first few months, Steve Blackmon didn't get many pops. Also, the entire NWA "invasion" group.[/b] Can that really count? The NWA Invasion was purposely designed to NOT get over.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Aug 6, 2018 19:21:17 GMT -5
Yeah there is no way Kurt Angle was portrayed as anything but a heel. Calling him the first "real athlete" in the WWF on his promo video was definitely not something they would do for a face. It's such a smug, pretentious and condescending video, there is no way they were pushing him as a face. Guys, please stop. The answer was already stated regarding the Tiger Ali Singh angle.
|
|