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Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on Feb 9, 2019 16:23:24 GMT -5
The crux of what Henry was saying is that when he came up as a rookie, he didn’t have it easy on the road because the previous generation trashed hotel rooms and wrecked rental cars. So when Henry would try to get a car or room, they’d say “ohh, you’re a wrestler? We don’t have anything available.” Henry and his generation worked hard to change the public perspective of that so these newer guys don’t run into those problems. He sees complacency and laziness, and feels things like leaving the locker room a mess could lead to a bad opinion of wrestlers again.
The way he said it, this is also a role he has been given by management in the company. This is his job now, to make sure the wrestlers learn how to do things professionally. And if they refuse, he will see to it they get fined.
This ain’t about hazing or bullying.
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Post by sdoyle7798 on Feb 9, 2019 16:23:53 GMT -5
But that's not what's happening, Black started cleaning on his own and was told not to, I took that as the young guy was not cleaning up his own mess, and was saying it wasn't his job to clean up his own mess.
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Post by Shai on Feb 9, 2019 16:24:29 GMT -5
Honestly I just think they don't want Enzo part 2. Like if even 25% of the BS Enzo pulled is true that's some toxicity that could last long after the direct cause of it is gone.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 16:27:44 GMT -5
Are you serious? Man I think I read your post wrong or something lol. Man, when I made this thread I figured more people would agree with what Mark's doing here but reading some of the responses, wow. Not even once did Henry mention hazing or doing any of the foul stuff that they've done in the past. He was just saying he was going to make sure that everyone shows respect. Some of the things Henry was talking about (girlfriend and wife being disrespected type of stuff) is something that's a straight up HR violation in most other fields. That type of thing shouldn't fly. As for guys not cleaning up after themselves, that should be common sense and something we learn to do as children. When you're eating in the lunchroom you don't just leave your plate, you throw it away. Same with restaurants, like, these are things that these wrestlers should be doing. How is it stupid to say "hey man you gotta clean up after you leave" when that's something that every other job tells you to do? When that's something we've learned to do as children?
Yeah, and so if this is happening the way Henry says, you need an HR representative on hand to be a liaison to management, and you need clearly stated rules that everyone can see and are enforced fairly. You do not need a veteran from wrestler's court to come in and "reestablish the chain of command." This is not a choice between letting the inmates run the asylum and chaos. You can actually institute policies and enforce them, all above-the-board. And no, I legit don't buy that "hey newbie, clean up everyone's shit" and "dude, don't leave trash everywhere, that's disrespectful to the cleaning staff" aren't quickly becoming the same thing once Locker Room Leaders get involved. That concept does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. You can heellllllla be sure that if JBL walked up to some rookie in 1999 and said, "Clean up everyone's trash tonight," and that rookie (correctly) said, "No, that's not my job," then Bradshaw would absolutely consider that rookie as violating "basic respect." He'd also be full of shit. Oh, this wasn't in the quoted part, so I didn't know about it. That's a little better, I guess, but you can't convince me he's not using deliberately intimidating language and playing up his physically tough persona when he describes this role. "We finna reestablish the leadership chain of command" does not read to me like someone who 1. is uninterested in hazing, and 2. believes his role solely involves being a liaison to management. The hell does a "chain of command" have to do with keeping people from trashing locker rooms, or basic norms of respect? That's old-school, poisonous wrestling talk. It's a glorified middle management position, man. I've dealt with it all of my professional life. It's not hazing, it's a delegation of power. He's basically the first line that exists between the wrestlers and management. I'm sure his role is to keep things running smoothly, and deal with petty things before they grow into a huge issue. Example: Say guys are constantly making a mess of catering. Mark holds a meeting with the talent, just like any other job would, and says "Hey, guys, do me a favor and start cleaning up after yourselves in catering. Cool?" If they don't, then there's the more stern conversation of "Dammit, guys, clean up your shit.", and then strike three comes and there's fines. That's not hazing, that's literally every job I've ever had in my entire life. If the intent were to get someone who's going to intimidate the shit out of you, get someone that's a known asshole like JBL. Mark, on the other hand, is an absolute teddy bear according to anyone who's ever met him. That's probably why he was chosen for the position; he's going to give you plenty of chances before being a dick.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 9, 2019 16:28:20 GMT -5
In the Sam Roberts interview Mark specifically said how he's going to be there to make sure wrestlers don't embarrass the wrestling industry.
Seems to me Vince wants Mark (has anyone coined Narc Henry yet?) to keep these guys and gals on the straight and narrow to help prevent future controversies.
This is a good thing.
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Post by Shai on Feb 9, 2019 16:32:01 GMT -5
In the Sam Roberts interview Mark specifically said how he's going to be there to make sure wrestlers don't embarrass the wrestling industry. Seems to me Vince wants Mark (has anyone coined Narc Henry yet?) to keep these guys and gals on the straight and narrow to help prevent future controversies. This is a good thing. They actually have a reasonably healthy work environment back there...like as much as we make fun of Vince complaining about them back there playing video games...he (or at least everyone else) must like it that way and wanna keep it that way.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 9, 2019 16:34:23 GMT -5
It doesn't work that way because a HR representative doesn't know the wrestlers as well as a veteran does nor are they in the locker rooms, at the tapings and are likely in Stanford most times. You've worked jobs before. You can't talk to a HR rep as close as you can to someone who's actually on the floor with you unloading boxes and stocking the shelves because they're not in the field with you and in the wrestling business I imagine it's lesser given the personalities involved. They do have an HR and it's obviously not working given these guys still aren't sticking to the rules. This isn't set in stone; it's that way because the WWE culture makes it that way, and they aren't willing to do the structural changes that would fix it. The WWE hairdressing staff travels, too. When there's conflict there, do they have to hire a veteran hairdresser to keep things in line? This whole thing is asinine. The company CAN spare the money to hire a real liaison, and they easily could have clear rules that everyone knows about (and aren't just "Hey, that old guy told you to do it.") It isn't some feature of work that rules have to be vague and enforcement of those vague rules has to be maintained by an old veteran with the same job as you. Yeah, and I am very skeptical of this. I certainly don't think Henry is in danger of going mad with power or outright abusing people, and I think he probably means it when he talks about reputation. But I also think there's a piece there of "I paid my dues, so you should, too." No, oh god I couldn't disagree with you more. This makes no sense How on earth does it "stick out in that story" that Black had to do that in the first place, when the whole point of the story was that Black shouldn't have been doing all that? Two of the examples are "towels getting stacked" (presumably before they're used) and guys having water, the former of which is plainly not a wrestler's job, and the latter of which is gonna get taken care of pretty quickly if you're a thirsty guy with a water fountain nearby. This isn't a matter of people not taking care of themselves; this is a matter of rookie wrestlers being convinced that intern gofer shit is part of their jobs when it really actually isn't. Then this totally undercuts the "he's going to be a professional and just report people to Vince to get fined thing. Right? Because if all this is, is "We'll see if they listen to that hole in their paycheck," then why not have a dude from talent relations?
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Post by Dub H on Feb 9, 2019 16:36:39 GMT -5
In the Sam Roberts interview Mark specifically said how he's going to be there to make sure wrestlers don't embarrass the wrestling industry. Seems to me Vince wants Mark (has anyone coined Narc Henry yet?) to keep these guys and gals on the straight and narrow to help prevent future controversies. This is a good thing. They actually have a reasonably healthy work environment back there...like as much as we make fun of Vince complaining about them back there playing video games...he (or at least everyone else) must like it that way and wanna keep it that way. I can guarantee when you have someone which job literally is "make sure you behave the way they want" ,it creates unhealthy work enviroment. At least Henry seems like a cool guy. I find it funny that they make sure "they dont embarass the industry" ,besides Enzo every single one of then have been class acts.Comparing to the past eras where most wrestler constantly made fool of thenselves.
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Post by Dub H on Feb 9, 2019 16:41:15 GMT -5
Are people seriously complaining about an employee with seniority coming back to help maintain order and a sense of professionalism? Especially in a business like pro wrestling that's entirely built off of trusting your coworkers with your life? No one's saying to bring back the old hazing and frat boy bullshit, but this is basic stuff that would go on in any similar work environment. You need an old head (or someone with the respect of younger staff) to come in and maintain a sense of order. I think the worry is the Old School sense of "professionalism". Plus having someone babysit your behavior can create an unhappy and awful relation. Plus overall current wrestlers behave great,so there is no need for a "old school" supervisor to make sure they behave.Its asasine that they are most well behaved generation of wrestlers and get that treament. And again Vince/Henry idea of "Professionalism" can be a carny nonsense,that is the most feared scenario.
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Post by Shai on Feb 9, 2019 16:41:29 GMT -5
They actually have a reasonably healthy work environment back there...like as much as we make fun of Vince complaining about them back there playing video games...he (or at least everyone else) must like it that way and wanna keep it that way. I can guarantee when you have someone which job literally is "make sure you behave the way they want" ,it creates unhealthy work enviroment. At least Henry seems like a cool guy. I find it funny that they make sure "they dont embarass the industry" ,besides Enzo every single one of then have been class acts.Comparing to the past eras where most wrestler constantly made fool of themselves. I mean...if we just take what he's saying as an account..if they aren't cleaning up after themselves, that's something that could cause a problem with arenas eventually if they're late or disrespectful of coworkers families, well if left unchecked that could get someone hurt in the ring. I get where their coming from with it but I get why people would be leery giving the past (JBL)
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Post by Dub H on Feb 9, 2019 16:42:48 GMT -5
I can guarantee when you have someone which job literally is "make sure you behave the way they want" ,it creates unhealthy work enviroment. At least Henry seems like a cool guy. I find it funny that they make sure "they dont embarass the industry" ,besides Enzo every single one of then have been class acts.Comparing to the past eras where most wrestler constantly made fool of themselves. I mean...if we just take what he's saying as an account..if they aren't cleaning up after themselves, that's something that could cause a problem with arenas eventually if they're late or disrespectful of coworkers families, well if left unchecked that could get someone hurt in the ring. I get where their coming from with it but I get why people would be leery giving the past (JBL) I think the fishy part is exactly that the said about cleaning after. There has never been any sort of hint that they are doing that.(it is possible). And it also never was an worry before ever in history of wrestling if wrestlers made a literal mess.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 9, 2019 16:46:04 GMT -5
It's a glorified middle management position, man. I've dealt with it all of my professional life. It's not hazing, it's a delegation of power. He's basically the first line that exists between the wrestlers and management. I'm sure his role is to keep things running smoothly, and deal with petty things before they grow into a huge issue. Example: Say guys are constantly making a mess of catering. Mark holds a meeting with the talent, just like any other job would, and says "Hey, guys, do me a favor and start cleaning up after yourselves in catering. Cool?" If they don't, then there's the more stern conversation of "Dammit, guys, clean up your shit.", and then strike three comes and there's fines. That's not hazing, that's literally every job I've ever had in my entire life. If the intent were to get someone who's going to intimidate the shit out of you, get someone that's a known asshole like JBL. Mark, on the other hand, is an absolute teddy bear according to anyone who's ever met him. That's probably why he was chosen for the position; he's going to give you plenty of chances before being a dick. I mean, yes. You and trollrogue convinced me that this IS the HR liaison position I'm asking for, just kayfabed up because the WWE is stupid as shit. And if this is true, good for Henry, being able to get a new job and gain a different kind of work experience. But if it really WAS the way he's playing it (guy hired to be a wrestler who intimidates everyone else into toeing the line) then that'd be serious bullshit. And, I do think this is an interesting rorschach for how people see the young generation. I see folks just accepting without question that These Young Wrestlers are just leaving their trash around everywhere and not caring, and need a firm hand to guide them to respecting others. And... like none of us are there, we don't know. But I just would never read this interview and come to that conclusion on my own.
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Post by Shy Guy on Feb 9, 2019 16:48:30 GMT -5
I love Mark Henry. That's all I have to add. I love this story. I'd like to see how the job proposal went. "So, you want me as an agent? Help plan matches and things?" "Uh...not exactly." "Ok...so....you want me to...." "Look, Mark. There's a lot of f***s back here, and we need you to set them straight. Don't fight them. Don't threaten them. Just....stand by the garbage can so no one litters." "I want $5 million dollars." "Deal."
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Post by Lupin the Third on Feb 9, 2019 16:50:13 GMT -5
That is interesting. I know the locker room is more chill and relaxed now, but I didn't think it was to the point where guys are turning up to the arena late and are cool with leaving the place a mess. I mean, it's good that Mark is gonna be back there to enforce discipline, just as long as things don't go back to the way they were with the alpha bully bullshit. There was a report going around a few months ago that Braun had heat because he kept showing up late or something. Well, you'd show up late if you were stuck in a garbage truck, too!
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Post by Shai on Feb 9, 2019 16:50:43 GMT -5
It's a glorified middle management position, man. I've dealt with it all of my professional life. It's not hazing, it's a delegation of power. He's basically the first line that exists between the wrestlers and management. I'm sure his role is to keep things running smoothly, and deal with petty things before they grow into a huge issue. Example: Say guys are constantly making a mess of catering. Mark holds a meeting with the talent, just like any other job would, and says "Hey, guys, do me a favor and start cleaning up after yourselves in catering. Cool?" If they don't, then there's the more stern conversation of "Dammit, guys, clean up your shit.", and then strike three comes and there's fines. That's not hazing, that's literally every job I've ever had in my entire life. If the intent were to get someone who's going to intimidate the shit out of you, get someone that's a known asshole like JBL. Mark, on the other hand, is an absolute teddy bear according to anyone who's ever met him. That's probably why he was chosen for the position; he's going to give you plenty of chances before being a dick. I mean, yes. You and trollrogue convinced me that this IS the HR liaison position I'm asking for, just kayfabed up because the WWE is stupid as shit. And if this is true, good for Henry, being able to get a new job and gain a different kind of work experience. But if it really WAS the way he's playing it (guy hired to be a wrestler who intimidates everyone else into toeing the line) then that'd be serious bullshit. And, I do think this is an interesting rorschach for how people see the young generation. I see folks just accepting without question that These Young Wrestlers are just leaving their trash around everywhere and not caring, and need a firm hand to guide them to respecting others. And... like none of us are there, we don't know. But I just would never read this interview and come to that conclusion on my own. I live with my husband and 3 sons. So I definitely think I have the 'Men are Gross' mentality so to hear that a bunch of dudes are leaving a locker room gross is an 'of course they are' assumption to me
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 9, 2019 16:56:46 GMT -5
I mean, yes. You and trollrogue convinced me that this IS the HR liaison position I'm asking for, just kayfabed up because the WWE is stupid as shit. And if this is true, good for Henry, being able to get a new job and gain a different kind of work experience. But if it really WAS the way he's playing it (guy hired to be a wrestler who intimidates everyone else into toeing the line) then that'd be serious bullshit. And, I do think this is an interesting rorschach for how people see the young generation. I see folks just accepting without question that These Young Wrestlers are just leaving their trash around everywhere and not caring, and need a firm hand to guide them to respecting others. And... like none of us are there, we don't know. But I just would never read this interview and come to that conclusion on my own. I live with my husband and 3 sons. So I definitely think I have the 'Men are Gross' mentality so to hear that a bunch of dudes are leaving a locker room gross is an 'of course they are' assumption to me I live with a grown ass woman 2 sons and a daughter. Can 100% confirm grossness.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 17:02:14 GMT -5
It doesn't work that way because a HR representative doesn't know the wrestlers as well as a veteran does nor are they in the locker rooms, at the tapings and are likely in Stanford most times. You've worked jobs before. You can't talk to a HR rep as close as you can to someone who's actually on the floor with you unloading boxes and stocking the shelves because they're not in the field with you and in the wrestling business I imagine it's lesser given the personalities involved. They do have an HR and it's obviously not working given these guys still aren't sticking to the rules. This isn't set in stone; it's that way because the WWE culture makes it that way, and they aren't willing to do the structural changes that would fix it. The WWE hairdressing staff travels, too. When there's conflict there, do they have to hire a veteran hairdresser to keep things in line? This whole thing is asinine. The company CAN spare the money to hire a real liaison, and they easily could have clear rules that everyone knows about (and aren't just "Hey, that old guy told you to do it.") It isn't some feature of work that rules have to be vague and enforcement of those vague rules has to be maintained by an old veteran with the same job as you. Are you really comparing the WWE makeup team to HR? Bruh, they're two completely different occupations. The makeup team purely exists so these wrestlers can look good on camera which is why they're not in a Stanford office filling out paperwork. An HR on the other hand is a completely different and very important position, like that's a very bad example. As for a "veteran hairdresser to keep things in line", dude, how many reports have you read about the makeup team causing problems with their own? How many reports have you heard about some of them having arguments? Now, tell me how many reports, stories, quotes, comments, how many have you heard about it happening with the wrestlers? There's a reason why you'd have someone getting a position to make sure they're in check compared to the makeup team, I mean bruh.
Like, I don't know how many jobs you've worked before because judging from what you're saying you think someone coming from a different position who hasn't dealt with the same situations as employees can suddenly do it better than those who had who the wrestlers respect more. I, and many others in this thread, can tell you that's completely false. Yes, they can hire someone else to be the middle man between the wrestlers and HR but the reality of the situation is that said person cannot, I can't stress this enough, know what it's like and can see the wrestlers eye to eye, that person won't be as respected as much and that person won't hold the morals as a veteran like Mark Henry.
That's something that should be easily understood. When you mean "paid my dues" what dues are you talking about? Everything Henry mentioned was relating to guys arguing, disrespecting each other and cleaning up after themselves. Nothing he mentioned dealt with any of the negativity that's happened in the past especially considering he and his crew had to fix all of those negativities when they were around. Nothing in anything Henry said relates to the hazing, shaming or anything of that sort so why do you think he, someone who had to fix all of that in his days, would want to do it to others too? Where are you getting this from? Bruh... Black straight up said he was making sure the "locker rooms were kept clean after wrestlers were gone" and that he was making sure "garbage was taken care of"...tell me something, do you mean to say that these wrestlers can't make sure they don't litter the locker room? Had that happened then Black wouldn't be doing this. That should be common sense. If I put my own dishes away after I'm done eating then my family won't have to do it themselves. If I put my towel in the washing machine then my family won't have to do it themselves.
As for the towels and water bottles, we've seen numerous wrestlers have one by them in backstage documentaries and/or black and white photoshoots. These guys know what the bottles of water and towels are. It would would be easy for them to go and grab them themselves rather than having someone like Black be the guy to get things ready for them because they're too relaxed and don't want to do it. It's not a matter of rookie wrestlers thinking this is "intern gofer shit", hell Black was doing it because he thought helping others out was part of being a team player given you're helping your people out and Black doing it would help get some negative stigma off of wrestlers (say someone saw the locker room trashed by the crew and they'd downtalk wrestlers because of it). Reigns said "man, you're part of the team already, never forget it" so Black stopped doing it. Like, you literally said it's not a wrestler's job to get a towel for themselves...do you know how bad that sounds? You mean to tell me these people don't know where the towels are or they can't grab a towel and leave it at gorilla and they need someone else to do it for them? See, that's straight up ridiculous. These are grown ass people. When they can do so much in the ring and yet they don't know where to get a towel or a water bottle and yet 1 person does, nah man that's ridiculous. They can take care of themselves, it doesn't all need to be on Black. And this goes back to what I said about wrestlers listening and respecting someone who's been in their shoes. They'll respect a Mark Henry given he knwos how it is and he's still asking rather than HR. If you don't think that they'd respect another wrestler rather than a dude in the office then I don't know what to tell you but that's something you learn working at a regular job. The majority people will respect others in their same field than someone not in it.
There's a reason why they're having Henry be this rather than someone from Stanford. He's a wrestler, he knows what goes on and they'll respect him more. It's like any other job.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 17:17:10 GMT -5
It's a glorified middle management position, man. I've dealt with it all of my professional life. It's not hazing, it's a delegation of power. He's basically the first line that exists between the wrestlers and management. I'm sure his role is to keep things running smoothly, and deal with petty things before they grow into a huge issue. Example: Say guys are constantly making a mess of catering. Mark holds a meeting with the talent, just like any other job would, and says "Hey, guys, do me a favor and start cleaning up after yourselves in catering. Cool?" If they don't, then there's the more stern conversation of "Dammit, guys, clean up your shit.", and then strike three comes and there's fines. That's not hazing, that's literally every job I've ever had in my entire life. If the intent were to get someone who's going to intimidate the shit out of you, get someone that's a known asshole like JBL. Mark, on the other hand, is an absolute teddy bear according to anyone who's ever met him. That's probably why he was chosen for the position; he's going to give you plenty of chances before being a dick. I mean, yes. You and trollrogue convinced me that this IS the HR liaison position I'm asking for, just kayfabed up because the WWE is stupid as shit. And if this is true, good for Henry, being able to get a new job and gain a different kind of work experience. But if it really WAS the way he's playing it (guy hired to be a wrestler who intimidates everyone else into toeing the line) then that'd be serious bullshit. And, I do think this is an interesting rorschach for how people see the young generation. I see folks just accepting without question that These Young Wrestlers are just leaving their trash around everywhere and not caring, and need a firm hand to guide them to respecting others. And... like none of us are there, we don't know. But I just would never read this interview and come to that conclusion on my own. I agree, the language he used was dumb, but Mark's still a worker, through and through. It's way more entertaining to hear "There's a new sheriff in town, and I'm gonna start making some changes, because playtime's over" as opposed to "The company is really happy with the overall locker room culture, but there's concerns of professionalism. I've been hired by the company to act in a management capacity to make sure that employees represent the WWE with professional conduct behind the scenes. I've been with the company over 20 years, and Vince feels that someone who's been in the same shoes as the current crop of talent would be a good fit for this type of position as both a leader and a mentor." As for the "younger generation" thing, it's not an indictment of being young. Being an adult doesn't mean that you are perfect, and that mentors and superiors aren't needed. If it were just an automatic assumption that rookies know how to conduct themselves, the NFL, NBA etc. wouldn't have training seminars on how to basically handle your life as a professional athlete. It's a lot of money, it's a lot of miles. Guys get stir-crazy being out on the road. It's literally a job where one botched move can paralyze you or kill you. That's a lot of stress. I would guess that sometimes guys get "tunnel vision" about it all and forget things like cleaning up after yourself. And I'm speaking anecdotally at this point, but a dude who's been there and done that in terms of my job is going to carry more weight when he tells me something than some nameless and faceless HR person. I get your fear, though. Taking everyone else's shit just because you're the new guy is totally not cool. I work in IT, and thankfully "paying my dues" just meant that I had to do the hard and the tough jobs at first because, frankly, it's the hardest and the toughest things to do. It wasn't doing anyone's dry cleaning or picking up after them, it was just doing the tougher work because it let me know what the hardest things i could expect to do were. You can do those? You're in good shape. Just reading between the lines, though, I suspect Henry is going to be the good guy 99% of the time. "Hey, guys, let's not get Vince on my ass or yours. Let's clean this up real quick."
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 9, 2019 17:38:41 GMT -5
I love Mark Henry. That's all I have to add. I love this story. I'd like to see how the job proposal went. "So, you want me as an agent? Help plan matches and things?" "Uh...not exactly." "Ok...so....you want me to...." "Look, Mark. There's a lot of f***s back here, and we need you to set them straight. Don't fight them. Don't threaten them. Just....stand by the garbage can so no one litters." "I want $5 million dollars." "Deal." Mark Henry introducing the HenMarky cleaning method. "Does your paycheck spark joy? Then don't get a bite taken out of it. Pick up your Slurpee straw."
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Post by Doctor No on Feb 9, 2019 17:42:51 GMT -5
Having someone there to enforce company standards for cleanliness and behavior in the backstage/locker room/on the road is fine to me. But it needs to be backed with official company standards/guidelines. If they have them, have Henry enforce them and if they don’t, they need to create them for him to enforce. No “this business” rules, no wrestler’s court nonsense. Leave the fraternity/high school football team or cheerleading team style of “policing their own” die with the past.
I don’t want people losing their jobs but the fact that they don’t seem to hardly release anybody anymore probably plays into some of the possible behaviors that Henry is talking about. People know they can coast and get by with little problems, just stay under the radar(no major issues) and you’re good.
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