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Post by Prince Petty on Feb 20, 2019 11:55:36 GMT -5
Man, if only there was some way of stopping these wrestlers from getting "damaged"!
Good grief. Vince books with less logic than an eight year old kid with his action figure collection, how can anyone be surprised that the credibility of most of the roster is shot?
Just pick four or five guys, Vince, and push them. Not sporadically, not with 50/50 booking so "no one suffers too much", and don't give up just because one of them made a weird face during a promo, or sneezed backstage. Push them, give them actual storylines and give the crowds reason to care.
But if he really is set on making Gargano, Ciampa, Ricochet and Black stars, then I'm not going to argue. They're all fantastic. Past precedence is... not hopeful, on that front.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,174
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Post by Mecca on Feb 20, 2019 11:57:10 GMT -5
They haven't had any stars other than Cena for the last like 15 years, I thought it was an intentional booking strategy?
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Feb 20, 2019 12:03:20 GMT -5
So there’s too many damaged wrestlers on RAW so let’s huild guys who aren’t damaged from NXT onto Raw and throw them into the mix... not change a thing and damage them by which point we’ll hopefully have a new crop of NXT guys to fill in the roles of the guys who are damaged.
Just wow
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,174
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Post by Mecca on Feb 20, 2019 12:05:23 GMT -5
Vince is just f***ing old, he's a detriment to the product, really difficult to understand good booking for a short period of time can basically revive anyone.
Steve Austin and The Rock were both damaged goobers at 1 point.
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Post by romanstylesiii on Feb 20, 2019 12:12:57 GMT -5
Kofi has been there 11 years and has had the same gimmick for 4, and in the span of a week has become their most over face besides Becky. Anyone can be built back up. The roster isn't the problem, the writing is. My fav thing is that both Becky and Kofi got over when they were really not even supposed to. Fans just REALLY want to cheer for certain people, but we are often met with Vince getting in the way doing random things
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 12:15:57 GMT -5
Vince is either on high grade hallucinogenics or he needs to be. Wrestling should be the easiest thing ever to write/book, see who the crowd reacts to positively and negatively and push them accordingly. Of course this completely removes delusional narcissism from the equation, so it will never work in WWE land.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 12:20:02 GMT -5
squash Alexa? What has she done to fall out of favour? The injuries, plus he has Mandy and Lacey now. They gotta turn Alexa face already. She's super stale as a heel, one of the most likable people they have and she'd most likely be better in the ring as a face. What are they waiting for?
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Post by MAD TITAN on Feb 20, 2019 12:28:36 GMT -5
How about giving some of these guys vacation time so they can rest their bodies and building guys/girls up while they're away?
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,763
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Post by cjh on Feb 20, 2019 12:33:13 GMT -5
squash Alexa? What has she done to fall out of favour? They actually repeated the Ronda/Alexa booking from a few months ago with Ronda/Ruby this week. Ronda won a quick squash, then there was a rematch soon afterwards that went over 10 minutes.
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Post by MrElijah on Feb 20, 2019 12:35:34 GMT -5
Vince is either on high grade hallucinogenics or he needs to be. Wrestling should be the easiest thing ever to write/book, see who the crowd reacts to positively and negatively and push them accordingly. Of course this completely removes delusional narcissism from the equation, so it will never work in WWE land. I don't care if this is a hot take or not: Vince has become Verne Gagne.
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Post by realist on Feb 20, 2019 12:40:43 GMT -5
Vince is either on high grade hallucinogenics or he needs to be. Wrestling should be the easiest thing ever to write/book, see who the crowd reacts to positively and negatively and push them accordingly. Of course this completely removes delusional narcissism from the equation, so it will never work in WWE land. I don't care if this is a hot take or not: Vince has become Verne Gagne. But does he take 90% 100% of the time?!
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Post by lildude8218 on Feb 20, 2019 12:40:59 GMT -5
I call bullshit on this. If Vince asked Triple H for the 4 best guys then why is Babatunde still at the Performance Center?
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Post by cabbageboy on Feb 20, 2019 12:58:53 GMT -5
The irony of pushing Owens or Wyatt over Kofi is that those guys to me are far more damaged than Kofi. Kofi hasn't done much in singles action until recently, but the New Day have won the tag titles multiple times and aren't remotely jobbers. Wyatt is such scorched earth that I dunno what you can do with him. It's easy to repackage Harper and Rowan as someone else's goons, but what do you do with a cult leader that has been buried multiple times? Owens was so totally buried in the past year that I can't fathom how he could draw anyone money.
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Post by MrElijah on Feb 20, 2019 13:03:50 GMT -5
I don't care if this is a hot take or not: Vince has become Verne Gagne. But does he take 90% 100% of the time?! Well, Goddamn Pal, I've been in the the business 40 years, Pay fair wages, born and bred in Connecticut, in fact, I AM Connecticut. Now Patterson, get in here.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,519
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Feb 20, 2019 13:04:29 GMT -5
Hunter changing the Balor V Ricochet plan is something I approve of wholeheartedly.
You don’t just throw those two against each other like that.
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Post by KofiMania on Feb 20, 2019 13:04:36 GMT -5
I honestly think they hit the nail on the head of what the issue is with Raw. The Raw roster is garbage. I’m all for the four NXT guys sticking on Raw. Smackdown is another story. They’re definitely deep enough for an interesting two hour weekly show without any additions. I'm not on board with throwing blame on people who are written, or not written, to do things. Look at it this way. On paper, Smackdown's roster in 2016 wasn't very impressive. But they had some of the best shows, and best PPVs, in years. Writing counts for a lot. Talent have to hold up their end of it, yes, but they have to be given decent material. 'Decent' does not describe a lot of Raw segments. Writing does count for a lot but so does talent. 3 hour Raws featuring Jinder, Apollo, Lashley, McIntyre, Corbin are just not going to cut it. You need some top talent- Raw essentially lost Roman, Owens, Zayn, have an absentee champ in Lesnar, have Ambrose on his way out, Rollins injuried, and replaced them all with nothing. They needed a talent infusion.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 13:05:44 GMT -5
So they had a shitty show, and then scrapped it and wrote another shitty show.
Sounds about right.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,421
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Post by Abdullah on Feb 20, 2019 13:11:45 GMT -5
I'm not on board with throwing blame on people who are written, or not written, to do things. Look at it this way. On paper, Smackdown's roster in 2016 wasn't very impressive. But they had some of the best shows, and best PPVs, in years. Writing counts for a lot. Talent have to hold up their end of it, yes, but they have to be given decent material. 'Decent' does not describe a lot of Raw segments. Writing does count for a lot but so does talent. 3 hour Raws featuring Jinder, Apollo, Lashley, McIntyre, Corbin are just not going to cut it. You need some top talent- Raw essentially lost Roman, Owens, Zayn, have an absentee champ in Lesnar, have Ambrose on his way out, Rollins injuried, and replaced them all with nothing. They needed a talent infusion. I agree that those names you mentioned are kind of... whatever. But I'm just not down with saying they are at fault when management has failed talent better than them and worse than them and, if history is any indication, they'll fail the new four guys too. WWE's problems have become so blatant and so pronounced that it just seems like a waste of time to laugh and point at individual talents. The problems are structural. They start at the top. And I'm sure a better, more patient writing team could elevate even those guys you namedropped.
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paywindah
Dennis Stamp
He's goin' to da paywindah here on da muddaship TBS.
Posts: 3,678
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Post by paywindah on Feb 20, 2019 13:16:43 GMT -5
"It was supposed to be Finn vs. Ricochet. Triple H apparently got that match changed because he thought that it made no sense to give that match away now and plus Ricochet would have to lose considering Balor just won the title."
That didn't stop them from having the Revival lose.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 20, 2019 13:19:59 GMT -5
Writing does count for a lot but so does talent. 3 hour Raws featuring Jinder, Apollo, Lashley, McIntyre, Corbin are just not going to cut it. You need some top talent- Raw essentially lost Roman, Owens, Zayn, have an absentee champ in Lesnar, have Ambrose on his way out, Rollins injuried, and replaced them all with nothing. They needed a talent infusion. I agree that those names you mentioned are kind of... whatever. But I'm just not down with saying they are at fault when management has failed talent better than them and worse than them and, if history is any indication, they'll fail the new four guys too. WWE's problems have become so blatant and so pronounced that it just seems like a waste of time to laugh and point at individual talents. The problems are structural. They start at the top. And I'm sure a better, more patient writing team could elevate even those guys you namedropped. Hell, the amount of times Dolph Ziggler has overcome shortfalls to become super over and the company has done nothing to capitalize on it because it’s not part of what they want should say everything for this. Because say what you will about the guy, by the end of 2014 and the summer of 2016, he was one of the most over guys.
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