WOR: Changes that happened to the Raw script and why

[KofiMania]

Feb 20, 2019 15:36:55 GMT -5 Chiral said:

Also real good for locker room morale to let them know everyone else is f***ed but these new guys are gonna be the real stars from here on out. I can't see any way this can go wrong.

If it leads to a midcarder exodus that can be good for WWE. Their roster is certainly bloated.

[Woo]

Vince is terrible and always has been.

[Redbeard's Ghost]

Here's a novel idea - let your wrestlers get over on their own again. Stop with micromanaging every word and move on every show. Wrestlers are "damaged" only because your shitty booking crew damaged them and your shitty writing staff made them boring. You have talent on this enormous roster without raiding the one brand that is actually working for its two top singles champs and two of its name brand stars. Look at the talent on both RAW and SD. If you can't book an interesting show with that talent, you shouldn't be booking wrestling shows.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Feb 20, 2019 15:36:55 GMT -5 Chiral said:

Also real good for locker room morale to let them know everyone else is f***ed but these new guys are gonna be the real stars from here on out. I can't see any way this can go wrong.

It's probably a pipe dream but I would love if inn like three years' time this news story is looked at as one of those moves that ended up having big repercussions. One of those moves looked at as Vince utterly f***ing himself over and ending up enriching someone else enough to actually make a big move against him. I know it's not likely, but there is definitely a timeline where this move and attitude makes waves.

[Starshine]

They don't have any stars because they have no interest in making legitimate stars above the ones they're trying to force into the spot. Speaking of damaged acts, let's not forget the lengths they went to make Roman Reigns their top guy over those 4 years. Guy gets booed to all hell, yet he's apparently not damaged enough to cut bait and look elsewhere.

They're their own worst enemies. It boggles the mind the extent they try to go to justify their bad decisions as not being their own fault.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Feb 20, 2019 19:43:00 GMT -5 Redbeard's Ghost said:

Here's a novel idea - let your wrestlers get over on their own again. Stop with micromanaging every word and move on every show. Wrestlers are "damaged" only because your shitty booking crew damaged them and your shitty writing staff made them boring. You have talent on this enormous roster without raiding the one brand that is actually working for its two top singles champs and two of its name brand stars. Look at the talent on both RAW and SD. If you can't book an interesting show with that talent, you shouldn't be booking wrestling shows.

Somewhere along the way, WWE made it “not OK” to be a midcarder or a lower carder or anything on the roster other than the top main event guy that never loses EVER. It’s impossible to book a company around that ideology because basic card structure makes it impossible. Someone has to go out first, someone has to lose, etc.

And this only seems to be a WWE problem. New Japan have a whole bunch of guys that hang around in midcard divisions endlessly, losing regularly, etc., but you never get the impression that nobody cares about them, fan and company alike. Their storylines aren’t exactly Shakespeare either, so it’s not something that can be nailed down to “better storytelling” alone.

[IgnahtaSempria]

Feb 20, 2019 13:16:43 GMT -5 paywindah said:

"It was supposed to be Finn vs. Ricochet. Triple H apparently got that match changed because he thought that it made no sense to give that match away now and plus Ricochet would have to lose considering Balor just won the title."

That didn't stop them from having the Revival lose.

Yes, but that's tag team wrestling. The McMahon's don't give a f***.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Feb 20, 2019 15:04:50 GMT -5 darbus alan said:

Reports like this show you that Vince is very much the problem. While I doubt Triple H is the great savior that will lead WWE to the next great boom period, I have to imagine he at least knows what makes a better wrestling show than an increasingly more out-of-touch old man who books shows for his own ego and that it must be frustrating to see his NXT talents used as poorly as they have been on the main roster.

Yeah I don't believe Triple H will put on the most flawless ultimate wrestling show that's perfect and amazing in every way, and there's a fair bit about what he's doing in terms of talent moves that I object to. But all I need is for him to put together a better show. Just something that can be good more often than it's not and that can make even a shred more sense. All he needs to save WWE from is Vince.

[Deleted]

Feb 20, 2019 20:17:07 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

Feb 20, 2019 19:43:00 GMT -5 Redbeard's Ghost said:

Here's a novel idea - let your wrestlers get over on their own again. Stop with micromanaging every word and move on every show. Wrestlers are "damaged" only because your shitty booking crew damaged them and your shitty writing staff made them boring. You have talent on this enormous roster without raiding the one brand that is actually working for its two top singles champs and two of its name brand stars. Look at the talent on both RAW and SD. If you can't book an interesting show with that talent, you shouldn't be booking wrestling shows.

Somewhere along the way, WWE made it “not OK” to be a midcarder or a lower carder or anything on the roster other than the top main event guy that never loses EVER. It’s impossible to book a company around that ideology because basic card structure makes it impossible. Someone has to go out first, someone has to lose, etc.

And this only seems to be a WWE problem. New Japan have a whole bunch of guys that hang around in midcard divisions endlessly, losing regularly, etc., but you never get the impression that nobody cares about them, fan and company alike. Their storylines aren’t exactly Shakespeare either, so it’s not something that can be nailed down to “better storytelling” alone.

Guys like Fandango, Santino, Al Snow, Rhyno, and Hurricane are never going to mainevent WrestleMania. But they sure made the shows a lot more enjoyable.

[Feargus McReddit]

Feb 20, 2019 20:13:24 GMT -5 Starshine said:

They don't have any stars because they have no interest in making legitimate stars above the ones they're trying to force into the spot. Speaking of damaged acts, let's not forget the lengths they went to make Roman Reigns their top guy over those 4 years. Guy gets booed to all hell, yet he's apparently not damaged enough to cut bait and look elsewhere.

They're their own worst enemies. It boggles the mind the extent they try to go to justify their bad decisions as not being their own fault.

And even with Roman, they never went all the way with him.

Remember Royal Rumble 2015 when he only was able to survive because two people who had teamed up for the back end of the match fought and got themselves eliminated?

Remember Summerslam last year when they spent half a year building to Roman overcoming Brock Lesnar and winning the Universal title belt until Roman only won because Brock was distracted by an impromptu suitcase tossing contest?

Sure, he beat guys like Joe and Finn and others confidently but when the chips were down and a star making moment was in front of them to at least salvage something? They couldn’t even do it with the guy they wanted to lead the damn company.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Feb 20, 2019 20:17:07 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

Feb 20, 2019 19:43:00 GMT -5 Redbeard's Ghost said:

Here's a novel idea - let your wrestlers get over on their own again. Stop with micromanaging every word and move on every show. Wrestlers are "damaged" only because your shitty booking crew damaged them and your shitty writing staff made them boring. You have talent on this enormous roster without raiding the one brand that is actually working for its two top singles champs and two of its name brand stars. Look at the talent on both RAW and SD. If you can't book an interesting show with that talent, you shouldn't be booking wrestling shows.

Somewhere along the way, WWE made it “not OK” to be a midcarder or a lower carder or anything on the roster other than the top main event guy that never loses EVER. It’s impossible to book a company around that ideology because basic card structure makes it impossible. Someone has to go out first, someone has to lose, etc.

And this only seems to be a WWE problem. New Japan have a whole bunch of guys that hang around in midcard divisions endlessly, losing regularly, etc., but you never get the impression that nobody cares about them, fan and company alike. Their storylines aren’t exactly Shakespeare either, so it’s not something that can be nailed down to “better storytelling” alone.

New Japan benefits from not having an insane stigma around being a midcarder. The midcard itself ebbs and flows, sometimes a guy like Goto is world title contender, sometimes he's NEVER champion, sometimes he's working a NEVER six-man gauntlet match, but there's always a steady back and forth of freshness to the structure of the card, where people get to shift in position and change up their lot. Several times through the year we see things like the G1 that allow a lot of those midcarders to tangle with top talent and there's usually a chance for upset wins that keep people credible, because while protected, the top guys will be expected to take some losses along the way. The only people who will stand around losing all the time always and not really do much else are the New Japan Dads, who had their glory days already.

WWE has caused this problem for a lot of reasons but I think one of the big ones is how the creative process during the Cena era became one where the first thing asked in the writing room would be "What is John doing?" and the rest was kind of filled in from there. It created a situation where things just became more and more top-heavy and they de-prioritized the roles that guys should have been occupying. The show became so much about one man in one role that they had irreparably damaged those roles, and nothing about the booking as it stands now is making those roles look better because they're just crapping the bed so hard on writing the show that those roles aren't getting rehabbed.

[King Devitt and the Woke Mob]

I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said.

All of it makes my head hurt.

I know there are a lot of HHHaters, but honestly HHH has to be the most patient dude on the planet, can you imagine being pretty damn good at your job, but then your boss just f***s up everything that he touches and blames everyone else but himself?

I just...I don't know...HHH may not be the savior of wrestling, but if NXT is anything to go by he knows WHAT THE f*** HE'S DOING at least.
It's the brand that got storyline of the year based on a simple premise between Dream and Black. Something the main roster could never do.
If NXT can get the shit that they do over, imagine what HHH and his crew could do with the main roster and the absurd amount of talent they have.
Imagine a world where the main roster PPV's are just as good if not better than Takeovers?
Imagine a main roster card not looking good on paper, but they give the guys the freedom to get the matches over, and it delivers.
Imagine a main roster where the wrestlers are allowed to sound like themselves, to get over on their own without fear of "surpassing the brand".

I'm so over Vince and he's failing mediocrity masked behind ignorant ego.

And I'm tired of hearing about HHH wanting new toys to play with.
I think people are really overestimating how much pull HHH has over the main roster.
HHH gets new toys, makes them nice and appealing, and Vince takes them and stuffs them down the heating vent.
Gets mad, and demands more.
The main roster is Vince's show. HHH had to say "let's not waste Balor vs. Ricochet" for the OBVIOUS f***ING REASONS, and for once got it changed.
That's a f***ing WM match. What the hell?
Vince has final say. It's Vince re-writing shows b/c no one is over enough.
Which is his fault, but he's too stupid to realize it.

You have BALOR RIGHT THERE!!!!!
Dude is over as f*** still after everything Vince has done to him.
The Demon vs. The Beast is your money match, the tagline sells itself.
Yes, I'm still salty about this.
This is their one chance to make a mega-star, and have someone slay the beast.
The Demon is perfect for it, and it would make Finn the new "final boss" as far as the demon character goes.
Even if you did it next year, the story wouldn't be the same, the stars wouldn't align just right.

and anyone can be salvaged. Kofi is your 2nd most over babyface at the moment after a decade of being there.
Let things happen ORGANICALLY.

I admire Seth's ability to bounce back, but he's lukewarm, and he's overcoming an injury and facing someone who's never there.
This is like Bray vs. Undertaker levels of meh.

I said I wasn't going to rant, and here we are.
I f***ing loathe Vince, and can't wait to see him step down (as I've said a hundred times) so his stranglehold on wrestling can be released, and wrestling can breathe and be fun again.

That's the reason NXT succeeds. It's allowed to breathe and be fun.
It's FOR the FANS. not for the BOSS.

Blah. I need an aspirin.

[Deleted]

The increased crossover between NXT and the main roster is making me nervous.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Feb 20, 2019 21:00:10 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Feb 20, 2019 20:17:07 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

Somewhere along the way, WWE made it “not OK” to be a midcarder or a lower carder or anything on the roster other than the top main event guy that never loses EVER. It’s impossible to book a company around that ideology because basic card structure makes it impossible. Someone has to go out first, someone has to lose, etc.

And this only seems to be a WWE problem. New Japan have a whole bunch of guys that hang around in midcard divisions endlessly, losing regularly, etc., but you never get the impression that nobody cares about them, fan and company alike. Their storylines aren’t exactly Shakespeare either, so it’s not something that can be nailed down to “better storytelling” alone.

New Japan benefits from not having an insane stigma around being a midcarder. The midcard itself ebbs and flows, sometimes a guy like Goto is world title contender, sometimes he's NEVER champion, sometimes he's working a NEVER six-man gauntlet match, but there's always a steady back and forth of freshness to the structure of the card, where people get to shift in position and change up their lot. Several times through the year we see things like the G1 that allow a lot of those midcarders to tangle with top talent and there's usually a chance for upset wins that keep people credible, because while protected, the top guys will be expected to take some losses along the way. The only people who will stand around losing all the time always and not really do much else are the New Japan Dads, who had their glory days already.

WWE has caused this problem for a lot of reasons but I think one of the big ones is how the creative process during the Cena era became one where the first thing asked in the writing room would be "What is John doing?" and the rest was kind of filled in from there. It created a situation where things just became more and more top-heavy and they de-prioritized the roles that guys should have been occupying. The show became so much about one man in one role that they had irreparably damaged those roles, and nothing about the booking as it stands now is making those roles look better because they're just crapping the bed so hard on writing the show that those roles aren't getting rehabbed.

The problem was that lower-card jobber often didn't carry the most job stability, particularly around 2009 or so. So if there was a guy you liked during that time you only saw on whatever they were calling the C-show at the time, it meant you probably weren't seeing them at all next year.

It's literally why Z! True Long Island Story existed in the first place, because it was either Zack Ryder gets a flavor of the month main event push, or gets fired. No nuance or in-between when it came to those options at all.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Vince needs to go

Plain and simple if you don't understand why your product is failing this hard, you are a detriment to it and everyone around it

Hand the reigns over and take a god damn retirement vacation or bore your head into the XFL, because you're out of gas and it's killing everything.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Feb 20, 2019 15:11:45 GMT -5 Magic knows Black Lives Matter said:

Feb 20, 2019 10:59:48 GMT -5 Rican said:

Kofi has been there 11 years and has had the same gimmick for 4, and in the span of a week has become their most over face besides Becky. Anyone can be built back up. The roster isn't the problem, the writing is.

And also, f***ing this. If the Kofi stuff recently has shown anything, there are a number of guys who still have credibility with the fanbase and can be kickstarted with a couple strong performances. It's happened countless times. The issue is that WWE so rarely takes advantage of these situations because "they didn't plan it." 

Yet then they get in a cycle of people being too damaged to be saved, it's like delusion believing that despite people getting back over in huge ways right in front of you, they just choose to not care

And that's why a plethora are asking for their releases and not resigning. 

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

Feb 20, 2019 20:13:24 GMT -5 Starshine said:

They don't have any stars because they have no interest in making legitimate stars above the ones they're trying to force into the spot. Speaking of damaged acts, let's not forget the lengths they went to make Roman Reigns their top guy over those 4 years. Guy gets booed to all hell, yet he's apparently not damaged enough to cut bait and look elsewhere.

And the reason most of your guys is damaged was because you cut them all off at the knees to feed them to Roman and Brock for a big face off no one wanted but Vince.

[Final Countdown Jones]

The sad thing is that if the SEC report is anything to go by, not only is Vince not going to loosen up or let someone else take over to try something, but there's no plan in place any time soon. That insane, morbid bullshit of "yeah if Vince leaves we're f***ed, we need Vince he's our everything" is so baffling to read, because it expresses the idea that at the very least Vince himself has no belief he's an issue and that in his mind he is always needed and vital to everything. ANd if that's the case, nothing will ever change, full stop. The man is going to kill off his own company if they let him.

[Deleted]

Feb 20, 2019 21:27:03 GMT -5 King Devitt and the Woke Mob said:

I know there are a lot of HHHaters, but honestly HHH has to be the most patient dude on the planet, can you imagine being pretty damn good at your job, but then your boss just f***s up everything that he touches and blames everyone else but himself?

Bruh, this is what I think with every single call-up. I don't know how Trips does it because I know for a fact that I would have gone off on Vince years ago. Trips just sees it happen, does his best, Vince f***s up and Trips continues to work, just keeps on pushing and it's just, wow. The patience of this guy is unreal.

He's sending his children away to their grandfather who never goes to see them.

It's sad.

[Mister Pigwell]

Feb 20, 2019 23:08:36 GMT -5 @kn said:

Feb 20, 2019 21:27:03 GMT -5 King Devitt and the Woke Mob said:

I know there are a lot of HHHaters, but honestly HHH has to be the most patient dude on the planet, can you imagine being pretty damn good at your job, but then your boss just f***s up everything that he touches and blames everyone else but himself?

Bruh, this is what I think with every single call-up. I don't know how Trips does it because I know for a fact that I would have gone off on Vince years ago. Trips just sees it happen, does his best, Vince f***s up and Trips continues to work, just keeps on pushing and it's just, wow. The patience of this guy is unreal.

He's sending his children away to their grandfather who never goes to see them.

It's sad.

HHH had to deal with the Kliq and babysit them through being drugged up and drunken idiots, all while furthering his career and keeping himself sober. Dude is used to chaos surrounding him and having to be the resilient pillar through it all.