Cena: I hate hearing guys say 'creative has nothing for me'

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Apr 6, 2019 12:57:03 GMT -5 darbus alan said:

That is a very privileged perspective, John.

And i'm sure from his perspective he's saying I came from the muck just like you so there is no excuses but John got that once in a lifetime lucky break that is not something you can personify

There have been dudes more talented then him that has gotten a lot less and people less talented than him that got way more opportunities, those are just the breaks.

[Deleted]

Apr 6, 2019 11:32:21 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

"Creative has nothing for me," when I am not even on TV is a somewhat valid argument.

Got to maximize those minutes, even if it’s zero, pal.

[Deleted]

To me stuff like this is pretty much impossible to have a strong opinion on because without actually being there you can't really know how much the onus is on the wrestler, or creative, for their dissatisfaction. It's gotta be a combination of both I would imagine.

It's easy to beat up John Cena and just say the game is unfair, and certain guys are definitely gonna have it easier than others, but WWE creative has been what it is for a long time, so at a certain point I think you gotta stop bitching about the system and try to find a way to work with it. Guys like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan came in with just as much working against them as most guys there, but they also seem to be guys with a sure enough vision for the kinds of performers they want to be (and are also so really talented in the first place) and that seems to go a long way. I question how many guys have that Mick Foley quality of knowing the kinds of promos they wanna cut, the kinds of opponents they wanna feud with, and what kinds of matches they wanna have. A lot of times it seems like the crux of many performers' frustrations are "I want more stuff" but they don't have much vision for what that would be. Raven wasn't very well liked during his last run in WWE and even he was constantly pushing his ideas forward and sometimes getting some version of them to play out.

Most guys who made it in the WWE has some combination of ideas, talent and persistence. Mick Foley is Mick Foley, and even he had to put up a fight to protect the basic root of his ideas, while compromising with Vince's micromanagement along the way. I get the impression that the wrestlers that often get bent out of shape about their creative failures, are usually not guys that have a wealth of ideas in the first place. I understand the frustration when someone like Rusev is as over as he was, and ultimately went nowhere because creative didn't know what to do with it, but is his plight any different than what New Day had gone through before they would eventually get their way? The difference to me is that Rusev seems to have a more defeatist attitude about his state of things and takes to the internet to complain a lot, where New Day seemed to play nice through the bad stuff while still trying to weasel their own ideas in there until eventually it paid off.

I could be way off base but really from our vantage point there's really no definitive way to diagnose this kind of thing. In a perfect world WWE would just focus on getting the most out of everyone and collaborate more with the talent, but wrestlers still persevere with things the way they are now so I think there is some onus on the wrestlers to be more assertive, but who knows really.

[Deleted]

Apr 6, 2019 13:58:03 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

To me stuff like this is pretty much impossible to have a strong opinion on because without actually being there you can't really know how much the onus is on the wrestler, or creative, for their dissatisfaction. It's gotta be a combination of both I would imagine.

It's easy to beat up John Cena and just say the game is unfair, and certain guys are definitely gonna have it easier than others, but WWE creative has been what it is for a long time, so at a certain point I think you gotta stop bitching about the system and try to find a way to work with it. Guys like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan came in with just as much working against them as most guys there, but they also seem to be guys with a sure enough vision for the kinds of performers they want to be (and are also so really talented in the first place) and that seems to go a long way. I question how many guys have that Mick Foley quality of knowing the kinds of promos they wanna cut, the kinds of opponents they wanna feud with, and what kinds of matches they wanna have. A lot of times it seems like the crux of many performers' frustrations are "I want more stuff" but they don't have much vision for what that would be. Raven wasn't very well liked during his last run in WWE and even he was constantly pushing his ideas forward and sometimes getting some version of them to play out.

Most guys who made it in the WWE has some combination of ideas, talent and persistence. Mick Foley is Mick Foley, and even he had to put up a fight to protect the basic root of his ideas, while compromising with Vince's micromanagement along the way. I get the impression that the wrestlers that often get bent out of shape about their creative failures, are usually not guys that have a wealth of ideas in the first place. I understand the frustration when someone like Rusev is as over as he was, and ultimately went nowhere because creative didn't know what to do with it, but is his plight any different than what New Day had gone through before they would eventually get their way? The difference to me is that Rusev seems to have a more defeatist attitude about his state of things and takes to the internet to complain a lot, where New Day seemed to play nice through the bad stuff while still trying to weasel their own ideas in there until eventually it paid off.

I could be way off base but really from our vantage point there's really no definitive way to diagnose this kind of thing. In a perfect world WWE would just focus on getting the most out of everyone and collaborate more with the talent, but wrestlers still persevere with things the way they are now so I think there is some onus on the wrestlers to be more assertive, but who knows really.

The problem isn't that we're ganging up on John Cena because he's John Cena, but more or less that he sounds tone-deaf to the reality of today's product. If you're not already at a certain level or currently looked at as a sensation, you have no say, and if you do lash out, it's not like those "brass rings" are real. Besides, this company actively punishes wrestlers for getting over against the desire of those in charge. This isn't smarks being vindictive; just point to Zack Ryder and his next 24 hour reign starting tomorrow or the sad story of Rusev or even the fate of the Fashion Files. There's even wrestlers who don't even have that luxury of a moment of glory, like Sanity, who despite being a stable just appeared on TV the past two weeks to be destroyed by one man, or Epico, who's only championship was won on a house show 7 years ago.

Your argument about Rusev giving up is that Rusev has a quitter's mindset. Well I would if I'm constantly told by my boss I shouldn't even be married to my wife because I'm supposedly this hideous ogre!

You tend to play the contrarily perspective, though I'd have to argue the issue I see is that with most of these people, they just give up due to the company seeing their stock as worthless and knowing the people at top won't have their back, are resigned to indignation.

[chrom]

Guys who do try to create something or stand up for themselves get labeled a trouble maker and made an example of as a warning to the rest

[mrbananagrabber]

“I was handed a piece of paper where I called Kurt Angle an arrogant little bitch, and I changed it to “a frickin’ ham sandwich.”

[Deleted]

Apr 6, 2019 14:21:59 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

Apr 6, 2019 13:58:03 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

To me stuff like this is pretty much impossible to have a strong opinion on because without actually being there you can't really know how much the onus is on the wrestler, or creative, for their dissatisfaction. It's gotta be a combination of both I would imagine.

It's easy to beat up John Cena and just say the game is unfair, and certain guys are definitely gonna have it easier than others, but WWE creative has been what it is for a long time, so at a certain point I think you gotta stop bitching about the system and try to find a way to work with it. Guys like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan came in with just as much working against them as most guys there, but they also seem to be guys with a sure enough vision for the kinds of performers they want to be (and are also so really talented in the first place) and that seems to go a long way. I question how many guys have that Mick Foley quality of knowing the kinds of promos they wanna cut, the kinds of opponents they wanna feud with, and what kinds of matches they wanna have. A lot of times it seems like the crux of many performers' frustrations are "I want more stuff" but they don't have much vision for what that would be. Raven wasn't very well liked during his last run in WWE and even he was constantly pushing his ideas forward and sometimes getting some version of them to play out.

Most guys who made it in the WWE has some combination of ideas, talent and persistence. Mick Foley is Mick Foley, and even he had to put up a fight to protect the basic root of his ideas, while compromising with Vince's micromanagement along the way. I get the impression that the wrestlers that often get bent out of shape about their creative failures, are usually not guys that have a wealth of ideas in the first place. I understand the frustration when someone like Rusev is as over as he was, and ultimately went nowhere because creative didn't know what to do with it, but is his plight any different than what New Day had gone through before they would eventually get their way? The difference to me is that Rusev seems to have a more defeatist attitude about his state of things and takes to the internet to complain a lot, where New Day seemed to play nice through the bad stuff while still trying to weasel their own ideas in there until eventually it paid off.

I could be way off base but really from our vantage point there's really no definitive way to diagnose this kind of thing. In a perfect world WWE would just focus on getting the most out of everyone and collaborate more with the talent, but wrestlers still persevere with things the way they are now so I think there is some onus on the wrestlers to be more assertive, but who knows really.

The problem isn't that we're ganging up on John Cena because he's John Cena, but more or less that he sounds tone-deaf to the reality of today's product. If you're not already at a certain level or currently looked at as a sensation, you have no say, and if you do lash out, it's not like those "brass rings" are real. Besides, this company actively punishes wrestlers for getting over against the desire of those in charge. This isn't smarks being vindictive; just point to Zack Ryder and his next 24 hour reign starting tomorrow or the sad story of Rusev or even the fate of the Fashion Files. There's even wrestlers who don't even have that luxury of a moment of glory, like Sanity, who despite being a stable just appeared on TV the past two weeks to be destroyed by one man, or Epico, who's only championship was won on a house show 7 years ago.

Your argument about Rusev giving up is that Rusev has a quitter's mindset. Well I would if I'm constantly told by my boss I shouldn't even be married to my wife because I'm supposedly this hideous ogre!

You tend to play the contrarily perspective, though I'd have to argue the issue I see is that with most of these people, they just give up due to the company seeing their stock as worthless and knowing the people at top won't have their back, are resigned to indignation.

I don't mean to come off too hard on Rusev or anyone else who is having a rough go of it in WWE. Can't blame any wrestler for feeling defeated, they have it hard enough as it is even when things are going well for them. I don't know if I buy the whole "Vince is jealous of Rusev's hot wife" thing either, but that's the difficulty of debating this kind of stuff because perception will make up a large part of our opinions, and there's no way from our end to really get an idea of what it's really like behind the scenes.

My main point is that there isn't a huge disparity between Rusev and New Day's talents as performers, yet New Day are doing really well, and Rusev isn't. I think that gives credence to Cena's point in that if you wanna be successful you gotta accept the situation for what it is and figure out how to be successful in it. It's very easy to be discouraged, but it's not going to help your situation get any better, and we don't know truly how much Rusev is sticking up for himself when they tell him they're breaking up Rusev Day, but New Day talk about how they often times have to put their foot down when the idea comes up to split them up, so what New Day are doing that Rusev isn't, I don't know, and maybe they are legitimately picking on Rusev for whatever reason but it's really hard to form an opinion based on that when there are relative examples of guys who succeed and who fail that are similarly talented. To me it's hard to say John Cena's take is wrong because I can't say I really know anything he doesn't know.

I see merit to both sides, the system is very clearly broken because ultimately it's not producing a show that's any good. But to Cena's point, it is what it is, so to be successful you gotta find a way to work within the system to get some semblance of what you want. It doesn't come across to me that he's living in fantasy land when he's saying point blank the writing is shit. Most guys who succeed in WWE seem to say the same thing, the company is set in its ways and it's not gonna change overnight, so you have to be persistent and creative. I wish it were easier for them but until it is all you can do is make the best of it and it's not impossible to make it work.

[Prince Petty]

It's always very easy for 'chosen' guys like Cena to rag on other wrestlers who complain about creative. He's always been given every opportunity, been on TV every week, put in every high-profile feud.

Other wrestlers haven't been given one hundredth of the chances Cena has, to get themselves over and make the most of their opportunities. And some of those who have managed to get themselves over find that the company isn't happy with what they're doing, and makes them stop.

[BorneAgain]

Clearly the rest of the roster need to emulate Cena's strategy when the writers hand him dubious promos: taking off his hat, rubbing the back of his head, and saying "Fine speech, writers."

[Deleted]

Another thing about Cena's comments is that they can't explain the wrestlers that get over, who have a great gimmick, those who have something that works.

And next thing you know...it's nixed.

What do you say to that Big Match? They had material, it worked, what do they do now? Rusev, Breezango, many guys fall in line here.

[Hit Girl]

Apr 6, 2019 14:59:42 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

Apr 6, 2019 14:21:59 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

The problem isn't that we're ganging up on John Cena because he's John Cena, but more or less that he sounds tone-deaf to the reality of today's product. If you're not already at a certain level or currently looked at as a sensation, you have no say, and if you do lash out, it's not like those "brass rings" are real. Besides, this company actively punishes wrestlers for getting over against the desire of those in charge. This isn't smarks being vindictive; just point to Zack Ryder and his next 24 hour reign starting tomorrow or the sad story of Rusev or even the fate of the Fashion Files. There's even wrestlers who don't even have that luxury of a moment of glory, like Sanity, who despite being a stable just appeared on TV the past two weeks to be destroyed by one man, or Epico, who's only championship was won on a house show 7 years ago.

Your argument about Rusev giving up is that Rusev has a quitter's mindset. Well I would if I'm constantly told by my boss I shouldn't even be married to my wife because I'm supposedly this hideous ogre!

You tend to play the contrarily perspective, though I'd have to argue the issue I see is that with most of these people, they just give up due to the company seeing their stock as worthless and knowing the people at top won't have their back, are resigned to indignation.

I don't mean to come off too hard on Rusev or anyone else who is having a rough go of it in WWE. Can't blame any wrestler for feeling defeated, they have it hard enough as it is even when things are going well for them. I don't know if I buy the whole "Vince is jealous of Rusev's hot wife" thing either, but that's the difficulty of debating this kind of stuff because perception will make up a large part of our opinions, and there's no way from our end to really get an idea of what it's really like behind the scenes.

My main point is that there isn't a huge disparity between Rusev and New Day's talents as performers, yet New Day are doing really well, and Rusev isn't. I think that gives credence to Cena's point in that if you wanna be successful you gotta accept the situation for what it is and figure out how to be successful in it. It's very easy to be discouraged, but it's not going to help your situation get any better, and we don't know truly how much Rusev is sticking up for himself when they tell him they're breaking up Rusev Day, but New Day talk about how they often times have to put their foot down when the idea comes up to split them up, so what New Day are doing that Rusev isn't, I don't know, and maybe they are legitimately picking on Rusev for whatever reason but it's really hard to form an opinion based on that when there are relative examples of guys who succeed and who fail that are similarly talented. To me it's hard to say John Cena's take is wrong because I can't say I really know anything he doesn't know.

I see merit to both sides, the system is very clearly broken because ultimately it's not producing a show that's any good. But to Cena's point, it is what it is, so to be successful you gotta find a way to work within the system to get some semblance of what you want. It doesn't come across to me that he's living in fantasy land when he's saying point blank the writing is shit. Most guys who succeed in WWE seem to say the same thing, the company is set in its ways and it's not gonna change overnight, so you have to be persistent and creative. I wish it were easier for them but until it is all you can do is make the best of it and it's not impossible to make it work.

No, most times it is impossible to make shitty ideas work. The onus is on WWE to stop coming up with shit ideas. If they can't do it, then allow the wrestlers to write their own material and pay them what a writer would normally earn.

[bearned]

Nothing says WWE like your biggest star admitting the writing sucks but rather than do anything about it, the talent should stop airing legitimate concerns and being big crybabies.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Cena killed off Nexus with his “improvements”.

[Deleted]

Apr 6, 2019 15:13:12 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

Apr 6, 2019 14:59:42 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

I don't mean to come off too hard on Rusev or anyone else who is having a rough go of it in WWE. Can't blame any wrestler for feeling defeated, they have it hard enough as it is even when things are going well for them. I don't know if I buy the whole "Vince is jealous of Rusev's hot wife" thing either, but that's the difficulty of debating this kind of stuff because perception will make up a large part of our opinions, and there's no way from our end to really get an idea of what it's really like behind the scenes.

My main point is that there isn't a huge disparity between Rusev and New Day's talents as performers, yet New Day are doing really well, and Rusev isn't. I think that gives credence to Cena's point in that if you wanna be successful you gotta accept the situation for what it is and figure out how to be successful in it. It's very easy to be discouraged, but it's not going to help your situation get any better, and we don't know truly how much Rusev is sticking up for himself when they tell him they're breaking up Rusev Day, but New Day talk about how they often times have to put their foot down when the idea comes up to split them up, so what New Day are doing that Rusev isn't, I don't know, and maybe they are legitimately picking on Rusev for whatever reason but it's really hard to form an opinion based on that when there are relative examples of guys who succeed and who fail that are similarly talented. To me it's hard to say John Cena's take is wrong because I can't say I really know anything he doesn't know.

I see merit to both sides, the system is very clearly broken because ultimately it's not producing a show that's any good. But to Cena's point, it is what it is, so to be successful you gotta find a way to work within the system to get some semblance of what you want. It doesn't come across to me that he's living in fantasy land when he's saying point blank the writing is shit. Most guys who succeed in WWE seem to say the same thing, the company is set in its ways and it's not gonna change overnight, so you have to be persistent and creative. I wish it were easier for them but until it is all you can do is make the best of it and it's not impossible to make it work.

No, most times it is impossible to make shitty ideas work. The onus is on WWE to stop coming up with shit ideas. If they can't do it, then allow the wrestlers to write their own material and pay them what a writer would normally earn.

I'm not arguing against WWE figuring out how to write good shows by default, that would obviously be the ideal solution. I'm just saying that I don't think Cena's advice is that egregious. Given the reality of the situation, publicly complaining isn't gonna solve their problem.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Rusev Day made it work. Ryder made it work. These are two guys who basically got punished for getting over when they weren’t supposed to. Certain guys have the stroke to do what they want, others don’t.

[Hit Girl]

Apr 6, 2019 16:21:24 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

Apr 6, 2019 15:13:12 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

No, most times it is impossible to make shitty ideas work. The onus is on WWE to stop coming up with shit ideas. If they can't do it, then allow the wrestlers to write their own material and pay them what a writer would normally earn.

I'm not arguing against WWE figuring out how to write good shows by default, that would obviously be the ideal solution. I'm just saying that I don't think Cena's advice is that egregious. Given the reality of the situation, publicly complaining isn't gonna solve their problem.

The reality of the situation is that 1- he has been protected from shitty writing, and 2- he is in a position to change things when other wrestlers aren't, so his argument is flawed. Publically complaining is just a natural frustration that many wrestlers will express.

[Deleted]

Apr 6, 2019 16:29:43 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

Apr 6, 2019 16:21:24 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

I'm not arguing against WWE figuring out how to write good shows by default, that would obviously be the ideal solution. I'm just saying that I don't think Cena's advice is that egregious. Given the reality of the situation, publicly complaining isn't gonna solve their problem.

The reality of the situation is that 1- he has been protected from shitty writing, and 2- he is in a position to change things when other wrestlers aren't, so his argument is flawed. Publically complaining is just a natural frustration that many wrestlers will express.

1. I don't know, Cena's writing is pretty shitty.

2. Triple H is pretty much the heir to the WWE throne, built NXT to what it is now and seemingly can't clean up WWE's writing so I don't know what Cena's gonna do. Furthermore I'm not sure Cena has great ideas anyways to make things any better.

3. Complaining is understandable but it's still not helpful to their cause.

[Chainsaw]

That's 4 guys, John.

[Hit Girl]

Apr 6, 2019 16:40:37 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

Apr 6, 2019 16:29:43 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

The reality of the situation is that 1- he has been protected from shitty writing, and 2- he is in a position to change things when other wrestlers aren't, so his argument is flawed. Publically complaining is just a natural frustration that many wrestlers will express.

1. I don't know, Cena's writing is pretty shitty.

2. Triple H is pretty much the heir to the WWE throne, built NXT to what it is now and seemingly can't clean up WWE's writing so I don't know what Cena's gonna do. Furthermore I'm not sure Cena has great ideas anyways to make things any better.

3. Complaining is understandable but it's still not helpful to their cause.

Cena has headlined five Wrestlemanias, won sixteen titles and was pushed relentlessly as their top guy for years to a diminishing audience. The only shitty writing he's experienced has been the shitty writing that benefitted him.

[schma]

There have been times where wrestlers have come up with story ideas for themselves and creative/Vince have gone awesome, that's great, give it to John. There have been numerous times where creative is talking about one topic and immediately someone higher up interrupts and asks what do we have for John? Cena seems like a great human being but he is so out of touch with how it is for the non-chosen ones here.

This is up there with the stuff that a lot of guys who were big in the attitude era argue about demanding this or that and being aggressive which was totally viable when there was legitimate competition and the threat of leaving meant a damn thing. Seems like these guys who spent time at the top like your Stone Colds and Cenas forget what it was like to be just another guy on the roster.



Most of the guys actively complaining have tried to polish turds, have tried to work with creative and have either been rebuffed or cut off at the knees.