Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2019 17:25:41 GMT -5
No one has done more to ruin the current product outside of Vince. f*** Cena, I'm never forgiving him for his bullshit.
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
Now featuring half the brain that you do.
Posts: 16,538
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Apr 6, 2019 22:27:41 GMT -5
I recently heard a clip from Konnan's podcast where he interviewed Jim Ross and they spoke on this topic. They echoed the sentiments that Cena had. It all comes from a place of not wanting to accept responsibility or shit on the one aspect of the business that benefitted them.
I totally disagree with Cena. Many a potentially great angles and opportunities were slaughtered at the alter of Cena.
And they have writers and agents. By the time they a wrestler gets to the ring, their promo or match is already set in stone. There is six days in between Raws. Weeks in between PPVs. Why does it feel like they just threw some shit at wall hours, and sometimes, minutes before Raw goes on air? It's because they do. There is no excuse for that. You have a Raw where Baron Corbin is out there all damn night and Fin comes out foes his routine and no real character development and guess what happens next?
Do any of us think that No Way Jose feels that his gimmick will get him multiple world title reigns. Or even a feud that will amount to anything.
How many stories have we heard about people begging to do some that ultimately sounds like common sense booking. You know what? Let me cool off. We got Mania tomorrow and I'm still posses about that dude running up on Bret and I got make through my last workday of the week tonight.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 6, 2019 22:36:07 GMT -5
It's always very easy for 'chosen' guys like Cena to rag on other wrestlers who complain about creative. Well part of it was... Cena WASN'T the chosen guy. Vince apparently really hated pre-rapper Cena. I think the biggest problem is the WWE Cena came up in is VASTLY different than the current situation. Cena managed to strike gold with the rapper gimmick that got him over... the company continued to play to his strengths and didn't cut him out at the knees like they've done with everyone else that started getting more over than they wanted kinda since... mainly because with them losing Brock they had a massive hole at the top of the card they needed filled as soon as possible. So yeah... he did maximize his minutes as soon as they put him on Smackdown with the gimmick that carried him... but most people that have done that since haven't been as lucky as Cena.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 6, 2019 22:36:45 GMT -5
I recently heard a clip from Konnan's podcast where he interviewed Jim Ross and they spoke on this topic. They echoed the sentiments that Cena had. It all comes from a place of not wanting to accept responsibility or shit on the one aspect of the business that benefitted them. As a point to add, these older talents need to stop saying stuff about taking the initiative and acting like they know the atmosphere now. They really don’t and placing the blame on the talent instead of the structure doesn’t help the issue of hands being tied and plans changing on the fly regardless on if they make sense or if the people involved are over or not.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 6, 2019 22:38:19 GMT -5
I recently heard a clip from Konnan's podcast where he interviewed Jim Ross and they spoke on this topic. They echoed the sentiments that Cena had. It all comes from a place of not wanting to accept responsibility or shit on the one aspect of the business that benefitted them. As a point to add, these older talents need to stop saying stuff about taking the initiative and acting like they know the atmosphere now. They really don’t and placing the blame on the talent instead of the structure doesn’t help the issue of hands being tied and plans changing on the fly regardless on if they make sense or if the people involved are over or not. as I said above the place is even massively different than when from when Cena started on Smackdown,...
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 6, 2019 22:42:59 GMT -5
As a point to add, these older talents need to stop saying stuff about taking the initiative and acting like they know the atmosphere now. They really don’t and placing the blame on the talent instead of the structure doesn’t help the issue of hands being tied and plans changing on the fly regardless on if they make sense or if the people involved are over or not. as I said above the place is even massively different than when from when Cena started on Smackdown,... And you’re right. Smackdown in particular was in a rebuilding period during the time some of the Smackdown 6 were shuffled about in drafts and the like and had to try and rebuild what they have. Brock leaving made WWE take the wrong lessons from why he left. Stressful schedule + backstage craziness should not equal “make backstage more crazy and restrained at the same time somehow”.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,424
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Post by Dub H on Apr 6, 2019 22:46:40 GMT -5
I hope that Cena can say that straight to Zack Ryder's Face.
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The Blue Nova
Don Corleone
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Post by The Blue Nova on Apr 6, 2019 22:46:50 GMT -5
Easy to say that when you been the top guy for 15 years.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 6, 2019 23:40:50 GMT -5
John, you're one foot out the door, you don't have to be a company man THIS hard anymore.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 6, 2019 23:41:54 GMT -5
I hope that Cena can say that straight to Zack Ryder's Face. Or Alex Riley...see cuz say it to his fa... Never mind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2019 23:48:50 GMT -5
Cena is semi retired and he’s still walking that company line like a soldier.
I do think talent should take more risks, speak up, and live with the consequences, but it’s easy for me to say when my money is not on the line.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 7, 2019 0:01:41 GMT -5
Cena is semi retired and he’s still walking that company line like a soldier. I do think talent should take more risks, speak up, and live with the consequences, but it’s easy for me to say when my money is not on the line. again I think part of it is that it worked for him... ignoring the difference in the WWE between 2004 and 2019
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Apr 7, 2019 0:13:19 GMT -5
Anyone remember the story Maxine/Catrina told where she pitched the writers an angle where she started flirting with Teddy Long to take over his position as SmackDown GM, but then they gave the storyline to Aksana, had her dye her hair & dress almost identical to Maxine, and then told Maxine that she had to change her look, because she looked too much like Aksana?
What should Maxine have done there, John?
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
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Post by Shark on Apr 7, 2019 3:02:02 GMT -5
Oh don’t get me wrong, no blame for anyone who signs a WWE contract and gets called up and accepts it. That’s awesome for you. But the point for me is if you call someone up and don’t have a plan for them, you can’t then blame them for not getting the initiative to try and get something when you’re not a priority and they call up another 67 people post WrestleMania. Right. Don't get me wrong I can get the frustration of a lot of guys on that roster especially when you go from a hot commodity to just an afterthought Like I said it's not really black and white. Some wrestlers are happy just being part of the wheel while others want to get out. It's all about where you stand and what you're willing to put up with. Most guys look to be like a Kofi Kingston but it is also to remember, that dude is always active even when he was aimless in the midcard mafia Cena can say those things but he got to remember he position as well as others. Some hope for that lucky break while others really don't care anymore and just colelcting a check
Let's remember too that Kofi got to the WWE title match at Wrestlemania because of a chance injury to Mustafa Ali. Ali doesn't get hurt, Kofi never gets into the gauntlet match and we're having a wildly different Mania. That's the kind of roll of dice that happens. That doesn't happen to everyone. WWE also has a real bad habit of refusing to budge or take advantage of a gift that lands in their lap. Zack Ryder gets over, gets some popularity, and I am going to bet you it pissed off the writers because they couldn't do it. Zack gets a token win, gets made to look like a clown. The message was clear; "You get over on your own, and we will screw you over." JR always loved to say the talent needed to make their own opportunity. In today's WWE, you get crapped on if you do. I recently heard a clip from Konnan's podcast where he interviewed Jim Ross and they spoke on this topic. They echoed the sentiments that Cena had. It all comes from a place of not wanting to accept responsibility or shit on the one aspect of the business that benefitted them. As a point to add, these older talents need to stop saying stuff about taking the initiative and acting like they know the atmosphere now. They really don’t and placing the blame on the talent instead of the structure doesn’t help the issue of hands being tied and plans changing on the fly regardless on if they make sense or if the people involved are over or not. That's terrible for morale too. That locker room probably hears that it's their fault if they fail to get over or fail to get time on TV. Being told that if something is going wrong, it's your fault really makes that person feel like garbage and makes for a shitty place to work. And Jim Ross who used to head Talent Relations should REALLY know that. Cena, I think is just that war dog who will always follow his master and I don't blame him for that, but I think it's largely left him blind to other things that are going on. I'm playing armchair shrink here too, but I actually wonder if maybe Cena isn't seen as a wise sage backstage anymore and the Rollins and Reigns and Styles' and Miz are guys the rest of the locker room is looking at and I imagine that bothers Cena a lot. Cena strokes me as a guy who needs that affirmation and I can see him not getting it as much anymore.
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Post by realist on Apr 7, 2019 3:51:07 GMT -5
That's interesting because I'm sure a lot of the guys hate hearing creative say, "we have nothing for you."
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Post by héad.casé on Apr 7, 2019 6:03:13 GMT -5
In order to write for you they’d have to have plans for you in the first place, and if they don’t have plans, what are they to do? Even Tyler Breeze joked with an agent on twitter saying “I’ll see you on Main Event tomorrow 😉”.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,424
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Post by Dub H on Apr 7, 2019 8:16:20 GMT -5
Anyone remember the story Maxine/Catrina told where she pitched the writers an angle where she started flirting with Teddy Long to take over his position as SmackDown GM, but then they gave the storyline to Aksana, had her dye her hair & dress almost identical to Maxine, and then told Maxine that she had to change her look, because she looked too much like Aksana? What should Maxine have done there, John? While this is the most baffling and f***ed up example.Wasnt the whole Miz and R-Truth ide apitche dby Curt Hawkin and Tyler Rex? Given,they were even more hard to take seriousas dangerous,but they deserved better for it than becoming strippers
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Post by toodarkmark on Apr 7, 2019 8:18:36 GMT -5
John Cena "I hate when they say they dont have bread to eat. Let them eat cake then."
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Post by Prince Petty on Apr 7, 2019 8:27:16 GMT -5
Anyone remember the story Maxine/Catrina told where she pitched the writers an angle where she started flirting with Teddy Long to take over his position as SmackDown GM, but then they gave the storyline to Aksana, had her dye her hair & dress almost identical to Maxine, and then told Maxine that she had to change her look, because she looked too much like Aksana? What should Maxine have done there, John? While this is the most baffling and f***ed up example.Wasnt the whole Miz and R-Truth ide apitche dby Curt Hawkin and Tyler Rex? Given,they were even more hard to take seriousas dangerous,but they deserved better for it than becoming strippers In the case of Miz and Truth, I can understand the thinking in creative - 'we like this idea, but we don't really want to waste it on lower card guys.' It sucks for the guys who come up with the idea, and still find themselves being ignored. And chances are, if they come up with another good idea, they'll see that go to someone else instead. In the WWE, if you're a Main Event curtain-jerker, chances are you'll never be anything more than that. Vince and his loyalists talk about grabbing opportunities, but the tiers of most guys are decided when they first arrive, and it's rare for that to change significantly. But with Maxine and Aksana, they were both on the same level, so the reasoning behind taking the idea one comes up with and giving it to the other feels more like pure politics - Someone liked Aksana backstage, and wanted to give her an opportunity. So essentially, if you come up with a great idea, make sure that someone likes you before you pitch it, because otherwise you'll probably never benefit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 8:31:05 GMT -5
Cena is just covering his ass in case Hollywood creative ever has nothing for him. I like Cena but he’s a corporate shill through and through. He’s like Michael Cole in wrestler form.
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