markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,653
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Post by markymark on Apr 8, 2019 7:21:21 GMT -5
NJPW has to be even more angrier after how WM performed, thanks to ROH sucking, NJPW got pretty much overshadowed in WM weekend.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 8, 2019 12:32:34 GMT -5
Right, and what made it stick out worse is that since NJPW did go all-out and use this as a "Big Four" style show, it made the ROH stuff stick out like a sore thumb and I'm sure hurt the card's cohesion for people watching at home since it created a style and tone clash. Even if it's a joint show, you still have to book it to be a consistent show for the people watching. I'm glad you and others seeing it in-person had a good time of it, from what I've read on here, but yeah, it sometimes came across like someone flipping channels, going from one promotion to the other. I get that ROH wanted to try to throw out plot developments and hooks, knowing that many people watching wouldn't be the people who watch the TV product all the time, etc, but I feel like they overdid it. If nothing else, though, they should have been more coordinated. There's no reason Enzo's bit should have happened at the same time as the Yano bit. That just reeks of miscommunication between ROH and NJPW. It wasn’t miscommunication between ROH and New Japan, that would imply an attempt at communication. From what I’ve heard, ROH just straight up didn’t tell NJPW that was happening in an attempt to keep the “worked shoot” thing going. New Japan not happy.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 8, 2019 13:10:27 GMT -5
NJPW has to be even more angrier after how WM performed, thanks to ROH sucking, NJPW got pretty much overshadowed in WM weekend. That was going to happen regardless. It's like debuting opposite an Avengers film. You're not going to get number one, and you have to be realistic about it.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 8, 2019 13:48:47 GMT -5
From Bryan Danielson to Nigel to CM Punk to Samoa Joe to Roderick Strong to Jay Lethal to Enzo and Cass....f*** ROH
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 8, 2019 14:21:14 GMT -5
I'm glad you and others seeing it in-person had a good time of it, from what I've read on here, but yeah, it sometimes came across like someone flipping channels, going from one promotion to the other. I get that ROH wanted to try to throw out plot developments and hooks, knowing that many people watching wouldn't be the people who watch the TV product all the time, etc, but I feel like they overdid it. If nothing else, though, they should have been more coordinated. There's no reason Enzo's bit should have happened at the same time as the Yano bit. That just reeks of miscommunication between ROH and NJPW. It wasn’t miscommunication between ROH and New Japan, that would imply an attempt at communication. From what I’ve heard, ROH just straight up didn’t tell NJPW that was happening in an attempt to keep the “worked shoot” thing going. New Japan not happy. And to make it worst New Japan was starting up an angle between GoD and Yano AT THE SAME TIME.
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Post by Some Guy on Apr 8, 2019 14:23:00 GMT -5
NJPW has to be even more angrier after how WM performed, thanks to ROH sucking, NJPW got pretty much overshadowed in WM weekend. That was going to happen regardless. It's like debuting opposite an Avengers film. You're not going to get number one, and you have to be realistic about it. Correct, but you can create a positive buzz that lingers. Instead they did the exact opposite and pissed everyone off.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 8, 2019 14:25:57 GMT -5
Part of this was just a bad combination of factors, too. It seems like a whole bunch of people who don't watch ROH watched this show, and (even leaving the bad decisions by the bookers aside) the fact that no one knew who the hell anyone was stacked the deck way against ROH from the start.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 8, 2019 14:39:04 GMT -5
That was going to happen regardless. It's like debuting opposite an Avengers film. You're not going to get number one, and you have to be realistic about it. Correct, but you can create a positive buzz that lingers. Instead they did the exact opposite and pissed everyone off. And that's where I thnink ROH still deserves the crap; there should have been good buzz coming off of this show. Hell, PCO is in ROH because of buzz me got Mania weekend last year and the career resurgence he got because of that. But instead ROH shitting the bed overshadowed the good New Japan show they had and the whole Enzo and Cass thing eclipsed the actual show. Instead of getting buzz for the card and how good it was, ROH tried to generate buzz for this worked shoot shit, taking away the shine New Japan had built up.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 8, 2019 15:00:14 GMT -5
Correct, but you can create a positive buzz that lingers. Instead they did the exact opposite and pissed everyone off. And that's where I thnink ROH still deserves the crap; there should have been good buzz coming off of this show. Hell, PCO is in ROH because of buzz me got Mania weekend last year and the career resurgence he got because of that. But instead ROH shitting the bed overshadowed the good New Japan show they had and the whole Enzo and Cass thing eclipsed the actual show. Instead of getting buzz for the card and how good it was, ROH tried to generate buzz for this worked shoot shit, taking away the shine New Japan had built up. They also had the misfortune of this happening when there was the Bret incident, which was much more of an actual story. That one's bad luck and not on them, granted, but it still minimized whatever benefit could have come from doing something that was just not the time for it. Shit, maybe had they done that earlier in the night, it'd have been fine, but not during what was supposed to be a coordinated effort match.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 8, 2019 15:18:39 GMT -5
And that's where I thnink ROH still deserves the crap; there should have been good buzz coming off of this show. Hell, PCO is in ROH because of buzz me got Mania weekend last year and the career resurgence he got because of that. But instead ROH shitting the bed overshadowed the good New Japan show they had and the whole Enzo and Cass thing eclipsed the actual show. Instead of getting buzz for the card and how good it was, ROH tried to generate buzz for this worked shoot shit, taking away the shine New Japan had built up. They also had the misfortune of this happening when there was the Bret incident, which was much more of an actual story. That one's bad luck and not on them, granted, but it still minimized whatever benefit could have come from doing something that was just not the time for it. Shit, maybe had they done that earlier in the night, it'd have been fine, but not during what was supposed to be a coordinated effort match. If they had followed up that awful six-man earlier in the night with this it would have worked better. Doing it when New Japan had their own angle to do was a horrible idea. Just total bush league moves.
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Allie Kitsune
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Always Feelin' Foxy.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 8, 2019 15:58:54 GMT -5
Correct, but you can create a positive buzz that lingers. Instead they did the exact opposite and pissed everyone off. And that's where I thnink ROH still deserves the crap; there should have been good buzz coming off of this show. Hell, PCO is in ROH because of buzz me got Mania weekend last year and the career resurgence he got because of that. But instead ROH shitting the bed overshadowed the good New Japan show they had and the whole Enzo and Cass thing eclipsed the actual show. Instead of getting buzz for the card and how good it was, ROH tried to generate buzz for this worked shoot shit, taking away the shine New Japan had built up. Like, I'm not against Enzo and Cass getting another chance, but holy shit, RoH, that is the absolute WORST way to do it, unless you're trying to scuttle your relationship with NJPW on purpose because you're so paranoid about them kicking you aside for AEW that you're doing the "Let's dump them before they can dump us" sort of cutting off your nose to spite your face...
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Post by corndog on Apr 8, 2019 16:49:16 GMT -5
(Language Warning)
So at one point Tanga Loa says they wrestled for free. Does this mean the New Japan wrestlers didn't even get paid!?
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chrom
Backup Wench
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Post by chrom on Apr 8, 2019 17:00:24 GMT -5
Yeah they are 110% done with them
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 8, 2019 17:56:33 GMT -5
They are livid and they should be
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Convoy
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Post by Convoy on Apr 8, 2019 18:08:25 GMT -5
So at one point Tanga Loa says they wrestled for free. Does this mean the New Japan wrestlers didn't even get paid!? New Japan has them under guaranteed contracts, so they are getting paid. Perhaps there was no bonus or expenses covered for an expensive NYC-area trip.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 8, 2019 18:45:48 GMT -5
The first video that came out of Tama's presser was panned out wide enough to show a guy at the door with a "Oh SHIT" look on his face while Tama was leaving.
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Post by honsou on Apr 8, 2019 21:19:24 GMT -5
The most hilarious part of all this is ROH tried so many gimmicks during the show and all people really wanted to see was straight up wrestling between guys they consider great. The contrast was especially apparent when you compare the ROH main event, which was an insane spotfest where only the craziest stuff got over and Okada vs White which may have been one of the safest matches on the show and people were going absolutely bananas over it
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Apr 8, 2019 23:43:57 GMT -5
I need to watch the Japanese announcer's version of the show to see how they reacted to it. Even though I don't speak Japanese, I'm curious if they sounded surprised or agitated when it happened, or if they just went quiet during it.
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Post by Starshine on Apr 8, 2019 23:46:59 GMT -5
It turns out the opening Rumble was for a shot at the world title.
So who's ready for Matt Taven vs. Kenny King in an empty arena match?
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Post by AwamoriRock on Apr 8, 2019 23:49:35 GMT -5
I need to watch the Japanese announcer's version of the show to see how they reacted to it. Even though I don't speak Japanese, I'm curious if they sounded surprised or agitated when it happened, or if they just went quiet during it. There's a good part where they think Shane Taylor is D-von.
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