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Post by Hypnosis on May 18, 2019 20:26:49 GMT -5
Pac might want to Discover another option, too.
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Spider2024 on May 18, 2019 20:37:51 GMT -5
You would think they would discover some sort of way for an express method to get American admittance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 20:43:13 GMT -5
Yikes. That’s definitely not something you want to deal with as a company, (or something fans want to hear), going into your first show as a company.
I have to imagine it’s the VISA problem because otherwise this makes the ”Excecutives” look quite bad. Hopefully if that’s the problem, it gets sorted soon because he’s a pretty big draw for them.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on May 18, 2019 20:51:37 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer on his board says it is not a visa issue, but nevertheless will not happen at DoN.
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Post by AwamoriRock on May 18, 2019 20:53:37 GMT -5
Yeah if it’s not a visa issue I wonder how on earth they got this. There’s probably something missing here but if it’s as clear cut as they thought , that’s bad planning and somewhat of a quick answer for PAC/DG.
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Post by Tenshigure on May 18, 2019 20:57:22 GMT -5
Putting PAC in the inaugural World Title picture without those details ironed out is really bad form on AEW's part. Yes, you want to have an open-ended ability to book people and give them their creative freedom, but they really should have had two fully committed AEW people (ie Omega/Jericho, or maybe Page/Moxley..?) for the title instead.
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Post by octopus on May 18, 2019 21:05:55 GMT -5
I have a feeling AEW knew about the VISA issue for months but still haven't gotten round to it.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on May 18, 2019 21:11:00 GMT -5
Did they confirm Page/PAC was going to be for a title? It seemed like they were going to have either Omega or Cody built up as their inaugural champ, with Jericho being the top heel at the time.
Give Page a new opponent (I'd say Moxley if he was debuting, or maybe Swagger if they want to give Moxley more of an oomph in his debut, possibly as a mystery opponent), and tells you all you need to know about PAC if he's willing to dick with AEW's booking and title situation if another promotion is that much more important to him.
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Post by AwamoriRock on May 18, 2019 21:19:57 GMT -5
Did they confirm Page/PAC was going to be for a title? It seemed like they were going to have either Omega or Cody built up as their inaugural champ, with Jericho being the top heel at the time. Give Page a new opponent (I'd say Moxley if he was debuting, or maybe Swagger if they want to give Moxley more of an oomph in his debut, possibly as a mystery opponent), and tells you all you need to know about PAC if he's willing to dick with AEW's booking and title situation if another promotion is that much more important to him. Does it? He’s Dragon Gate’s top champ on what is looking like a dominant run setting up the next guy in the promotion that made him. There was ample time to figure out what finish would or wouldn’t have been a problem. I’m not sure why AEW get the priority here, especially since he went back to DG before affiliating with them. They’re booking another promotion’s champ so this just seems like such an obvious snag to run into I wonder why plans got this far.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on May 18, 2019 21:30:30 GMT -5
The last person to beat Pac/Neville was Enzo.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on May 18, 2019 21:35:15 GMT -5
This is a large part of what killed WCW. Too many wrestlers given creative control and using it to resist putting anyone over.
With all the ripping on Vince/WWE, we got our first “hold my beer” moment from AEW.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on May 18, 2019 21:36:31 GMT -5
Last year at ALL IN, I could not see Kenny Omega losing to Pentagon while he was IWGP Champ. This year, if Okada was in Pac's spot, I could not see him losing to Page. If they had a deal with All Japan and Kento Miyahara was wrestling Page, I can't see them having him lose to Page in that spot.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on May 18, 2019 21:59:13 GMT -5
Not to double post, but outside of the possibility of it being visa related or a work, this is in part why people need to be a bit more conservative in their hopes of working with promotions like Stardom, who even in Japan are known for being isolationist with things like this. Coincidentally, WWE sent them back Tony storm and when they tried to book her against one of their bigger stars, WWE were like “nope. We ain’t giving you the Uk champion so you can beat her”.
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Post by AwamoriRock on May 18, 2019 22:11:35 GMT -5
Not to double post, but outside of the possibility of it being visa related or a work, this is in part why people need to be a bit more conservative in their hopes of working with promotions like Stardom, who even in Japan are known for being isolationist with things like this. Coincidentally, WWE sent them back Tony storm and when they tried to book her against one of their bigger stars, WWE were like “nope. We ain’t giving you the Uk champion so you can beat her”. Yeah. During the Toni challenge she was only allowed to draw against Momo, who’s their ace, and Kagetsu, who’s obviously a top star and beat everyone else. Once Bea got the title and it was clear she wasn’t losing, they replaced her with Kagetsu. Makes me think WWE wasn’t even open to a draw or Stardom wanted Bea to win outright for whatever reason (maybe a draw right after winning the title wasn’t good with them either)
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Post by cabbageboy on May 18, 2019 22:27:35 GMT -5
Here's the thing though. AEW is going to be the #2 promotion in the U.S. once they debut on TNT later this year. Does anyone watching the PPV next week really give a crap about whether Pac has a belt somewhere else? It's not like he's a top champ in NJPW here. If I'm Tony Khan I might be willing to listen to NJPW when it comes to this stuff, but there's no way I'd listen to Dragon Gate. As far as the American market goes, Neville was last seen jobbing to friggin ENZO AMORE on a bottom tier show like 205 Live. I'd think getting a prime spot in a nationally televised U.S. based company would be desirable.
If there is a visa issue, so be it. If this seriously is a booking argument then this is a joke and does not bode well for AEW. Sorry but you can't just work with a bunch of different promotions who all have their own agendas. They need to deliver on an advertised match, even if it's just a time limit draw or double count out, etc. This comes off insanely bush league. It's even worse when you consider since literally Day 1 of the promotion they have teased this match, with Page doing this goofy "full gear" storyline on BTE where he has been preparing for the Pac match.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on May 18, 2019 22:39:00 GMT -5
Here's the thing though. AEW is going to be the #2 promotion in the U.S. once they debut on TNT later this year. Does anyone watching the PPV next week really give a crap about whether Pac has a belt somewhere else? It's not like he's a top champ in NJPW here. If I'm Tony Khan I might be willing to listen to NJPW when it comes to this stuff, but there's no way I'd listen to Dragon Gate. As far as the American market goes, Neville was last seen jobbing to friggin ENZO AMORE on a bottom tier show like 205 Live. I'd think getting a prime spot in a nationally televised U.S. based company would be desirable. If there is a visa issue, so be it. If this seriously is a booking argument then this is a joke and does not bode well for AEW. Sorry but you can't just work with a bunch of different promotions who all have their own agendas. They need to deliver on an advertised match, even if it's just a time limit draw or double count out, etc. This comes off insanely bush league. It's even worse when you consider since literally Day 1 of the promotion they have teased this match, with Page doing this goofy "full gear" storyline on BTE where he has been preparing for the Pac match. I seem to remember Pac pulling something like this in his last days in WWE too. He's got talent, but overestimates his own value. I agree I'm not a fan of acknowledging other promotions or their titles on a different show, unless it's expressly billed as a joint show. There's really no need for the AAA Tag Titles to be defended on this show, either.
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Post by AwamoriRock on May 18, 2019 22:42:15 GMT -5
Here's the thing though. AEW is going to be the #2 promotion in the U.S. once they debut on TNT later this year. Does anyone watching the PPV next week really give a crap about whether Pac has a belt somewhere else? It's not like he's a top champ in NJPW here. If I'm Tony Khan I might be willing to listen to NJPW when it comes to this stuff, but there's no way I'd listen to Dragon Gate. As far as the American market goes, Neville was last seen jobbing to friggin ENZO AMORE on a bottom tier show like 205 Live. I'd think getting a prime spot in a nationally televised U.S. based company would be desirable. Dragon Gate is the number 2 promotion in Japan (although I'd lean towards DDT in terms of the venues run) and doesn’t care about any of that, though. If they told PAC to protect the title in his home promotion for a dominant run with a big show of their own coming up, it makes no sense to lose to Page—no matter what AEW has planned for him, DG and their fans are probably just as dismissive of him and AEW as you are them. They had months to find whatever finish protects the title and makes Page look like an emerging top guy. If AEW is going to try being a conduit promotion etc working with DDT and other promotions, they have to keep this in mind and not pretend NJPW is the only company that has a say in stuff.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 18, 2019 22:45:43 GMT -5
On the subject of it potentially being a Visa issue: PAC hasn't wrestled in the US since October of 2017, nearly a year and a half. He had these issues on Wrestlecon. I think the "Creative Differences" is a lot of wrestling journalists taking the ball and running with it.
They know PAC's been unbeaten since winning the Dream Gate Belt, so they assume that's why. I think this is just them covering the Visa issue, if it weren't why would they have Page going overseas to have this match, have it end that way, and announce they'd put the match up on Youtube?
It's a work to set shit up for later, once the Visa issues clear up we'll get a proper angle.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 18, 2019 22:58:28 GMT -5
Here's the thing though. AEW is going to be the #2 promotion in the U.S. once they debut on TNT later this year. Does anyone watching the PPV next week really give a crap about whether Pac has a belt somewhere else? It's not like he's a top champ in NJPW here. If I'm Tony Khan I might be willing to listen to NJPW when it comes to this stuff, but there's no way I'd listen to Dragon Gate. As far as the American market goes, Neville was last seen jobbing to friggin ENZO AMORE on a bottom tier show like 205 Live. I'd think getting a prime spot in a nationally televised U.S. based company would be desirable. Dragon Gate is the number 2 promotion in Japan and doesn’t care about any of that, though. If they told PAC to protect the title in his home promotion for a dominant run with a big show of their own coming up, it makes no sense to lose to Page—no matter what AEW has planned for him, DG and their fans are probably just as dismissive of him and AEW as you are them. They had months to find whatever finish protects the title and makes Page look like an emerging top guy. If AEW is going to try being a conduit promotion etc working with DDT and other promotions, they have to keep this in mind and not pretend NJPW is the only company that has a say in stuff. The thing is, I don't know how accurate that would be. A lot of AEW's guys were big stars in Japan. Although I think there is a future relationship between DG and AEW. If I'm not mistaken aren't OWE and Dragon Gate associated? Like I thought OWE was Dragon Gate's attempt to expand, with CIMA (a Dragon Gate Legend) being the guy leading the charge. I might be wrong, but I think this whole thing is a massive work with journalists running with the little information they have to make a story.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on May 18, 2019 23:11:36 GMT -5
Dragon Gate is the number 2 promotion in Japan and doesn’t care about any of that, though. If they told PAC to protect the title in his home promotion for a dominant run with a big show of their own coming up, it makes no sense to lose to Page—no matter what AEW has planned for him, DG and their fans are probably just as dismissive of him and AEW as you are them. They had months to find whatever finish protects the title and makes Page look like an emerging top guy. If AEW is going to try being a conduit promotion etc working with DDT and other promotions, they have to keep this in mind and not pretend NJPW is the only company that has a say in stuff. The thing is, I don't know how accurate that would be. A lot of AEW's guys were big stars in Japan. Although I think there is a future relationship between DG and AEW. If I'm not mistaken aren't OWE and Dragon Gate associated? Like I thought OWE was Dragon Gate's attempt to expand, with CIMA (a Dragon Gate Legend) being the guy leading the charge. I might be wrong, but I think this whole thing is a massive work with journalists running with the little information they have to make a story. CIMA/OWE is not affiliated with Dragon Gate.
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