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Post by eJm on May 21, 2019 14:47:04 GMT -5
I thought it was a good match. Pac is phenominal. This was really my first look at Hangman in a match and I'm sold. He is really good! I said about a couple of years ago that Hangman is one of the most improved in the industry and it felt like him going into Bullet Club was the biggest motivation he needed to be as good as he is now.
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Post by ANuclearError on May 21, 2019 14:49:48 GMT -5
I thought it was a good match. Pac is phenominal. This was really my first look at Hangman in a match and I'm sold. He is really good! I said about a couple of years ago that Hangman is one of the most improved in the industry and it felt like him going into Bullet Club was the biggest motivation he needed to be as good as he is now. I remember Tanahashi had a promo during the last G1 about wanting to guide Page away from the influence of Bullet Club. Would have been interesting to see if that played out.
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Post by Hypnosis on May 21, 2019 14:58:01 GMT -5
Captions:"Hangman Paige is here!" *snickers like an idiot*
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 21, 2019 15:50:00 GMT -5
I thought it was a good match. Pac is phenominal. This was really my first look at Hangman in a match and I'm sold. He is really good! I said about a couple of years ago that Hangman is one of the most improved in the industry and it felt like him going into Bullet Club was the biggest motivation he needed to be as good as he is now. I've become a fan of his over the last few years and you can see him slowly getting better and better. He could have kept making a name for himself in Japan but his value is attached to his boys and they are going to continue to prop him up
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Post by Deputy Muscle on May 21, 2019 15:54:11 GMT -5
Really good match, they worked really well together. I was already a fan but it's pretty obvious that Hangman can be a big big star if he carries on at this rate.
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Post by Muskrat on May 21, 2019 16:59:24 GMT -5
Using Ambrose/Moxley as the replacement would be so disappointing to me. Nothing against him, but he really doesn’t excite me that much as a wrestler. I wanna see his character work, I wanna him cutting promos on Hangman, I wanna see a proper build and feud.
Ambrose isn’t Omega (at least in my eyes). Kenny I could watch all day long, and invest in his matches without ever seeing a promo, or vignette or media interview. Ambrose has to talk me into buying a ticket, he totally doesn’t interest me as a surprise opponent just because. If there was a pre existing history to tell a story around, sure. But as a random mystery opponent I’ll pass.
Now, if Dean appears and leaves someone lying in a puddle of their own blood and spends the summer building to a match at All In II? I’ll be first in line to buy the PPV, don’t even really care who he attacks. Kenny, Hangman, Britt Baker, Mitch the House Plant’s evil brother Hitch,Jungle Boy, Famous Dick Wrestler Joey Ryan’s Penis, CD’s Appletini, don’t care. But if they’re gonna use Dean, that’s what I wanna see
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 18:05:55 GMT -5
Using Ambrose/Moxley as the replacement would be so disappointing to me. Nothing against him, but he really doesn’t excite me that much as a wrestler. I wanna see his character work, I wanna him cutting promos on Hangman, I wanna see a proper build and feud. Ambrose isn’t Omega (at least in my eyes). Kenny I could watch all day long, and invest in his matches without ever seeing a promo, or vignette or media interview. Ambrose has to talk me into buying a ticket, he totally doesn’t interest me as a surprise opponent just because. If there was a pre existing history to tell a story around, sure. But as a random mystery opponent I’ll pass. Now, if Dean appears and leaves someone lying in a puddle of their own blood and spends the summer building to a match at All In II? I’ll be first in line to buy the PPV, don’t even really care who he attacks. Kenny, Hangman, Britt Baker, Mitch the House Plant’s evil brother Hitch,Jungle Boy, Famous Dick Wrestler Joey Ryan’s Penis, CD’s Appletini, don’t care. But if they’re gonna use Dean, that’s what I wanna see You're absolutely right there. Additionally, while Dean/Moxley is a very good wrestler, his match quality I feel is more dependent on story and gimmick. Without it, it wouldn't live up to Pac/Page. First time I've watched Page, I skipped through parts but what I saw, hespecially looks like he has an extremely high ceiling.
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Post by Muskrat on May 21, 2019 18:33:37 GMT -5
Using Ambrose/Moxley as the replacement would be so disappointing to me. Nothing against him, but he really doesn’t excite me that much as a wrestler. I wanna see his character work, I wanna him cutting promos on Hangman, I wanna see a proper build and feud. Ambrose isn’t Omega (at least in my eyes). Kenny I could watch all day long, and invest in his matches without ever seeing a promo, or vignette or media interview. Ambrose has to talk me into buying a ticket, he totally doesn’t interest me as a surprise opponent just because. If there was a pre existing history to tell a story around, sure. But as a random mystery opponent I’ll pass. Now, if Dean appears and leaves someone lying in a puddle of their own blood and spends the summer building to a match at All In II? I’ll be first in line to buy the PPV, don’t even really care who he attacks. Kenny, Hangman, Britt Baker, Mitch the House Plant’s evil brother Hitch,Jungle Boy, Famous Dick Wrestler Joey Ryan’s Penis, CD’s Appletini, don’t care. But if they’re gonna use Dean, that’s what I wanna see You're absolutely right there. Additionally, while Dean/Moxley is a very good wrestler, his match quality I feel is more dependent on story and gimmick. Without it, it wouldn't live up to Pac/Page. First time I've watched Page, I skipped through parts but what I saw, hespecially looks like he has an extremely high ceiling. Page is gonna go as far as he wants to, as long as he doesn’t do anything too stupid and get injured. And Ambrose is kinda like Foley for me, solid and entertaining in the ring but exponentially better with a good story and build.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 21, 2019 20:05:34 GMT -5
I mean not everyone that is going to come into AEW is going to bleed AEW and drink the kool aid. They are going to have a few "special attractions" that have their own outside circumstances like PAC but you expect to have around for a while. In his circumstance he still wants to hold his commitment to Dragon Gate and put over the next person to the fullest when he does drop it. It doesn't seem like he's not taking an L anytime(tho Meltz kind of worded it funny), just he's not taking L's while he is holding that title. If he hasn't lost anywhere since he won the title than it is a consistent thing and not just because he doesn't want to lose in AEW If he were to have the AEW title and ran around with that to different promotions he would say the same thing he is saying now. To say he's not worth having on your roster is going to far when you take it all into totality. Now, if he holds this high opinion of himself after the title is gone then we still have problems but for now that is the X factor At least that is my opinion of it It's also like someone else said; AEW probably wants to work with Dragon Gate at some point and it was probably the reason they allowed PAC to have the belt with him at the press conference. If you want to cooperate with other companies, you want to at least show respect to them in the same way I'm sure AEW would if the world title was defended at the Tokyo Dome and not against, say, Ishii in a non title match where Ishii wins. Look at TNA with their relationship with NJPW back in the day where the tag titles changed hands every few weeks without NJPW agreeing to it and their talent being used as jobber fodder for the main stars. Remember the time No Limit (Naito and Takahashi) were squashed by Kevin Nash in minutes? In the year TWO THOUSAND AND NINE?! Like, I get how much it sucks and I do wish they figured something out better to make their own standards make sense (for the record, I probably would have had PAC beat Page in Vegas and built a retribution arc down the road but that's just me) but WWE don't have to think about this because WWE doesn't do that sort of thing with companies. Hell, the only people who seem to under the WWE banner are PROGRESS, WXW and ICW but they might as well be subsidiaries in the wider WWE scope. Right. More so the bottomline is the way PAC is acting with the DG title is the way I would want him to act with my title if he takes it to other indies. Now, if this attitude last past the title than he is a problem but right now he just seems to be drawing a hardline which is "fair" Learned lesson for the AEW grew. You are going to want to deal with big talent who holds titles with other indies and promotions. They aren't going to drop everything because you are the hottest new game in town. You got to come to the table with open arms realizing something has to benefit others besides you. As mentioned they don't want to come across in a situation where they are "taking advantage" of the other competition like TNA did with NJPW and was part of the process that ruined that relationship. If anything as you said, due to this controversy I would have built up Page to get his W back from PAC and you use your current guys to help set up a AEW title match between Page/Omega or whoever you want to add
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Post by Starshine on May 21, 2019 21:14:23 GMT -5
So I'm confused. It's been pretty well known that PAC isn't dropping falls as long as he's the DG champion, so that was always a risk in booking him.
But even with that in mind, aren't there other ways to book this match around that limitation? Unless I'm missing something I don't understand why it's so necessary to remove the match all together. Page could easily win by DQ, or countout, and then they could use that to build to a rematch down the road. Or f*** it, just have PAC beat him and do another match later with Page winning.
I don't hold PAC accountable for this, since Japanese companies tend to be very protective of their champions, and DG is #2 right now. I don't think anyone would hold NJPW accountable if they didn't want Okada to lose on another company's show (like he didn't at All In). So this all just seems really weird from everyone involved.
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Post by AwamoriRock on May 21, 2019 21:22:44 GMT -5
So I'm confused. It's been pretty well known that PAC isn't dropping falls as long as he's the DG champion, so that was always a risk in booking him. But even with that in mind, aren't there other ways to book this match around that limitation? Unless I'm missing something I don't understand why it's so necessary to remove the match all together. Page could easily win by DQ, or countout, and then they could use that to build to a rematch down the road. Or f*** it, just have PAC beat him and do another match later with Page winning. I don't hold PAC accountable for this, since Japanese companies tend to be very protective of their champions, and DG is #2 right now. I don't think anyone would hold NJPW accountable if they didn't want Okada to lose on another company's show (like he didn't at All In). So this all just seems really weird from everyone involved. What some people have said is that PAC may have not even been scheduled to lose to Page to begin with, and that the match was going to in someway set up him vs. Omega. PAC seems to think he will still be the champ when he faces Omega, and AEW seems to have an objection to questionable finishes so they just decided to pull the whole thing. You figure they could just stall out until he drops the title, but maybe the timing of his reign doesn't sync up with their plans.
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Post by Starshine on May 21, 2019 21:24:43 GMT -5
So I'm confused. It's been pretty well known that PAC isn't dropping falls as long as he's the DG champion, so that was always a risk in booking him. But even with that in mind, aren't there other ways to book this match around that limitation? Unless I'm missing something I don't understand why it's so necessary to remove the match all together. Page could easily win by DQ, or countout, and then they could use that to build to a rematch down the road. Or f*** it, just have PAC beat him and do another match later with Page winning. I don't hold PAC accountable for this, since Japanese companies tend to be very protective of their champions, and DG is #2 right now. I don't think anyone would hold NJPW accountable if they didn't want Okada to lose on another company's show (like he didn't at All In). So this all just seems really weird from everyone involved. What some people have said is that PAC may have not even been scheduled to lose to Page to begin with, and that the match was going to in someway set up him vs. Omega. PAC seems to think he will still be the champ when he faces Omega, and AEW seems to have an objection to questionable finishes so they just decided to pull the whole thing. You figure they could just stall out until he drops the title, but maybe the timing of his reign doesn't sync up with their plans. I see. Though it still seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 21, 2019 21:39:09 GMT -5
So I'm confused. It's been pretty well known that PAC isn't dropping falls as long as he's the DG champion, so that was always a risk in booking him. But even with that in mind, aren't there other ways to book this match around that limitation? Unless I'm missing something I don't understand why it's so necessary to remove the match all together. Page could easily win by DQ, or countout, and then they could use that to build to a rematch down the road. Or f*** it, just have PAC beat him and do another match later with Page winning. I don't hold PAC accountable for this, since Japanese companies tend to be very protective of their champions, and DG is #2 right now. I don't think anyone would hold NJPW accountable if they didn't want Okada to lose on another company's show (like he didn't at All In). So this all just seems really weird from everyone involved. They want clean finishes for their shows
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Post by Deputy Muscle on May 22, 2019 1:41:03 GMT -5
So I'm confused. It's been pretty well known that PAC isn't dropping falls as long as he's the DG champion, so that was always a risk in booking him. But even with that in mind, aren't there other ways to book this match around that limitation? Unless I'm missing something I don't understand why it's so necessary to remove the match all together. Page could easily win by DQ, or countout, and then they could use that to build to a rematch down the road. Or f*** it, just have PAC beat him and do another match later with Page winning. I don't hold PAC accountable for this, since Japanese companies tend to be very protective of their champions, and DG is #2 right now. I don't think anyone would hold NJPW accountable if they didn't want Okada to lose on another company's show (like he didn't at All In). So this all just seems really weird from everyone involved. They want clean finishes for their shows Vince: that's not how we do business pal
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Post by Brian Suntan on May 22, 2019 5:55:42 GMT -5
Does it not hurt Pac's drawing power that now everyone knows the result of any match he has outside of DG while he remains champion?
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Post by AwamoriRock on May 22, 2019 6:05:42 GMT -5
Does it not hurt Pac's drawing power that now everyone knows the result of any match he has outside of DG while he remains champion? I’d say no.
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