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Post by THE FVNKER on May 19, 2019 17:10:27 GMT -5
I honestly cant wrap my head around that, but on the other hand.. if it's a work, I dont see the benefit. That is why I sort of dislike thinking it’s a work or a cover for the Visa stuff because, like you said, it benefits nobody. But what I’ve learned from WWE in the last 5 years is to take things said as a work until there’s a reason not to think it’s a work. That’s not to say that if Saturday comes and they’ve not mentioned PAC at all I won’t admit there’s something wrong and this is a misstep but...I don’t know, something seems really off about the reasoning. Right, but I, for whatever reason really even doubt the whole creative differences deal.. they have been building this angle since AEW was officially announced, and obviously the two knew what the finish was going to be, as well as I'm sure that the EVP's or Khan or whoever probably informed PAC on what they saw regarding his future with the company. The whole thing seems odd. But.. maybe.. maybe the creative thing is true. Maybe PAC pulled some sort of "this wont work for me, brother" and dipped out.. who knows. It's all so vague and sketch.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 17:14:53 GMT -5
Really no matter how you slice it this lessens my confidence in AEW's creative team. Really there are three possible explanations here.
1. There are visa issues and for no reason they're doing a weird meta angle to cover it instead of just owning up to it.
2. It's exactly what's being said and so they apparently have no control over their talent.
3. It's some stupid worked shoot thing.
All of these options make AEW look like idiots.
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Post by eJm on May 19, 2019 17:16:28 GMT -5
That is why I sort of dislike thinking it’s a work or a cover for the Visa stuff because, like you said, it benefits nobody. But what I’ve learned from WWE in the last 5 years is to take things said as a work until there’s a reason not to think it’s a work. That’s not to say that if Saturday comes and they’ve not mentioned PAC at all I won’t admit there’s something wrong and this is a misstep but...I don’t know, something seems really off about the reasoning. Right, but I, for whatever reason really even doubt the whole creative differences deal.. they have been building this angle since AEW was officially announced, and obviously the two knew what the finish was going to be, as well as I'm sure that the EVP's or Khan or whoever probably informed PAC on what they saw regarding his future with the company. The whole thing seems odd. But.. maybe.. maybe the creative thing is true. Maybe PAC pulled some sort of "this wont work for me, brother" and dipped out.. who knows. It's all so vague and sketch. Yeah, I mean like I said, if the next BTE or Road to has no mention of PAC or they reveal Page’s true stalker to be, I don’t know, a debuting David Arquette or something, then I’ll be more of a believer.
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Post by flowercity on May 19, 2019 17:29:21 GMT -5
Meltzer lives rent free inside so many posters head
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 19, 2019 19:45:13 GMT -5
A big f*** up by AEW, no bones about it
Y'all been bragging before things have officially gotten in motion and this is a setback that you can afford but not one you wanted on your "first" big show
Pitching creative freedom is nice but you're going to have to be the bad guys at points. Wrestlers will follow direction as long as you hear there ideas and don't try grand serve your own ala Jeff Jarrett
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 19, 2019 19:48:28 GMT -5
Really no matter how you slice it this lessens my confidence in AEW's creative team. Really there are three possible explanations here. 1. There are visa issues and for no reason they're doing a weird meta angle to cover it instead of just owning up to it. 2. It's exactly what's being said and so they apparently have no control over their talent. 3. It's some stupid worked shoot thing. All of these options make AEW look like idiots. And the absolute best option is too tell the truth What's the point in blurring the lines when you are preaching you want to be real. Just say listen folks visa issues got in the way and one day we will revisit this but we apologize right now People will be disappointed but will understand and be happy about the transparency. If it PAC refusing because of is own reasons and this gets out then yeah, you're going to have a lot of people trying to pull that card. If it is a worked shoot, then you shot yourself in the foot before you even got on TV
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 19, 2019 19:56:16 GMT -5
Man this whole PAC crap is what I feared for this company. AEW going to be great for a lot of things but if someone is saying "I refuse to do this, I'm not wrestling" this outright in the beginning then hell who knows what everyone else is going to say. Who's to say we won't have a litany of wrestlers refusing to play ball? Imagine the problems that will come to the egos of other wrestlers if Cody, Bucks, Omega are basically standing tall every show and hitting wrestlers with the IOU but don't return the favor It's going be a challenge of having goodwill because they are the stars but also giving others the nod that aren't in their inner circle. Page was getting a big time nod being matched with PAC
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 20:00:40 GMT -5
Man this whole PAC crap is what I feared for this company. AEW going to be great for a lot of things but if someone is saying "I refuse to do this, I'm not wrestling" this outright in the beginning then hell who knows what everyone else is going to say. Who's to say we won't have a litany of wrestlers refusing to play ball? Imagine the problems that will come to the egos of other wrestlers if Cody, Bucks, Omega are basically standing tall every show and hitting wrestlers with the IOU but don't return the favor It's going be a challenge of having goodwill because they are the stars but also giving others the nod that aren't in their inner circle. Page was getting a big time nod being matched with PAC And it hasn't even started yet and here we are with this. This also plants a seed that we know whoever beats Page will end up facing Kenny and losing which is understandable but before any matches happen? I don't know about that. We shouldn't be going through this stuff before a promotion even begins.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 20:26:33 GMT -5
This really should've been dealt with long ago, if it's a booking problem. I don't get taking Page/PAC off the show if the issue is that PAC isn't going to lose to Omega later on. Just do that match and then don't build towards Omega/PAC. I get not wanting to put an outside guy over on your guy if he's not going to return the favor, but the match has been built up already, and you don't need dumb shit dragging down your first big show.
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Post by THE FVNKER on May 19, 2019 20:32:09 GMT -5
I'm honestly marked out for AEW to a fault probably, but can yall imagine if this is some sort of work.. just to pop the smallest fraction of their fanbase.. on some internet forums? Bleh..
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 19, 2019 20:35:37 GMT -5
This really should've been dealt with long ago, if it's a booking problem. I don't get taking Page/PAC off the show if the issue is that PAC isn't going to lose to Omega later on. Just do that match and then don't build towards Omega/PAC. I get not wanting to put an outside guy over on your guy if he's not going to return the favor, but the match has been built up already, and you don't need dumb shit dragging down your first big show. I do wonder if part of the issue here is perhaps that PAC is just not an easy person to deal with in real life. Perhaps a draw was proposed and they realised it wasn’t feasible with the show’s length, or the reaction to PAC/Ospreay scared them off. They’re very social media savvy, they had to realise how this would look. Something convinced them pulling off the band aid now was the wisest option.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 19, 2019 21:33:21 GMT -5
Imagine the problems that will come to the egos of other wrestlers if Cody, Bucks, Omega are basically standing tall every show and hitting wrestlers with the IOU but don't return the favor It's going be a challenge of having goodwill because they are the stars but also giving others the nod that aren't in their inner circle. Page was getting a big time nod being matched with PAC And it hasn't even started yet and here we are with this. This also plants a seed that we know whoever beats Page will end up facing Kenny and losing which is understandable but before any matches happen? I don't know about that. We shouldn't be going through this stuff before a promotion even begins. Yea, one of my questions would be since you are already planning way ahead to put the title on Omega. Who the f*** takes it off of him? Also are the advanced plans just for y'all or are you willing to be flexible. If Moxley comes in, do you flip the plans and say f*** it or run the course that y'all like? A lot of questions that can be asked from this
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EyeofTyr
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Post by EyeofTyr on May 19, 2019 22:10:25 GMT -5
I don't think the booking things in advance thing is really all that bad of a thing. A lot of top promotions do it or have done it when they were at their best. Usually with wiggle room in case stuff happens and a change of plans have to go into effect, because somebody's not getting over, somebody is, somebody got hurt, ect ect ect.
We don't know how detailed these ideas are either. It could be something as simple and flexible as "We're doing a tournament, A will go over in the end and get into a feud with B coming out of it". It could be more complicated and detailed.
Either way it's an inherently better way of doing it than rushing to write the script an hour before the show every week.
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Post by honsou on May 19, 2019 22:33:01 GMT -5
From what I've read the plan was for him to beat Page and face Omega at All In 2 where PAC would lose. However since PAC won't lose a match until he loses the Dragon Gate belt and there is no way to control when that would be it makes booking this impossible. No one would want to see a draw and AEW really wants to have clean finishes on the big shows. It sucks but it is what it is
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 22:56:55 GMT -5
Meltzer lives rent free inside so many posters head Years of accurate reporting (not his own spitballing on radio shows where he gives his opinion. Not a Conrad podcast where someone disputes something written 20 years ago. Not something falsely attributed to Meltzer by a NEWZ site) make him something to be at least acknowledged on stuff like this. That's not obsession, or 'living rent free'. That's being someone who's been part of wrestling fans forming opinion for decades. Regardless of Meltzer in this anyhow, this is the first bump in the road for AEW and as mentioned, they've not handled it well.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 23:35:24 GMT -5
From what I've read the plan was for him to beat Page and face Omega at All In 2 where PAC would lose. However since PAC won't lose a match until he loses the Dragon Gate belt and there is no way to control when that would be it makes booking this impossible. No one would want to see a draw and AEW really wants to have clean finishes on the big shows. It sucks but it is what it is I think the solution to that is... Suck it up and lose while he has the belt. I really don't see how on earth this would hurt him at all, or really how many people would even actually care.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 23:47:00 GMT -5
Look at these terrible attendances for Dragon Gate iheartdg.com
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Post by octopus on May 20, 2019 0:06:50 GMT -5
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 20, 2019 0:12:02 GMT -5
From what I've read the plan was for him to beat Page and face Omega at All In 2 where PAC would lose. However since PAC won't lose a match until he loses the Dragon Gate belt and there is no way to control when that would be it makes booking this impossible. No one would want to see a draw and AEW really wants to have clean finishes on the big shows. It sucks but it is what it is I think the solution to that is... Suck it up and lose while he has the belt. I really don't see how on earth this would hurt him at all, or really how many people would even actually care. I see PAC point but this is one of those weird things where dude we really can't work for you if you can't lose matches You would have thought this is something he said to them from jump and not something that came up last min
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 0:16:14 GMT -5
I think the solution to that is... Suck it up and lose while he has the belt. I really don't see how on earth this would hurt him at all, or really how many people would even actually care. I see PAC point but this is one of those weird things where dude we really can't work for you if you can't lose matches You would have thought this is something he said to them from jump and not something that came up last min Honestly I genuinely don't see his point. He'd hardly be the first guy to lose a match in the middle of a title reign and personally, if I'm AEW about to be the first real potential competitor WWE's had in nearly 20 years, if a guy is willing to prioritize another company over a potential main-event push right out of the gate then I'd decide the guy wasn't worth having on my roster.
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