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Post by Yacht Persona on Jan 2, 2020 6:24:15 GMT -5
Darby's getting over as a scrappy pitbull that has to be literally knocked out to be defeated, by some of the biggest names in wrestling, two of whom are former WWE world champions. It seems to be working as well, since his reactions are some of the best in the company. I think they're doing a fantastic job getting him over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 10:03:49 GMT -5
That doesn't change my opinion and even seeing it wouldn't change anything I said. Nowhere in my post was I talking about the story of the match like you think. I'm speaking on if he won or if he lost rather than what the match's story was. The guy could have barely lost and only lost due to 10 demons and getting hit by a truck and yet I'd say the same because from what I've seen in all of his AEW matches he's lost big time matches whether it's barely or by shenanigans. From a wins and losses standpoint with his daredevil persona to me he's the daredevil who's fearless and does great but he hasn't won anything major yet and me? I'm not a fan of that because I'd like him to win matches. I wasn't even talking about why he lost tonight or where they're setting him up, I'm talking about the entirety of what he's been doing at this point because from out of all I've seen from him (everything sans tonight's match) he's had these matches but he just lost barely. Beyond that I even gave him props in my post by saying that yes, he's still young and yes, he's a future world champion. At the same time no, I'm not digging the fact that he's had these big matches lost. At the end of the day me seeing one match isn't going to make me say "man, that completely overrides everything I thought about him prior" especially when I'm not speaking on the entire story of the match but rather his wins and losses solely.
We're speaking on 2 different things. You're speaking on how he lost the match while I'm speaking on the fact he lost another big named match. I don't care how he lost especially when in my eyes he's barely lost every big named match he's been in.
From what I've seen you comment, I think you're someone who gets storytelling and and plotting in a way a lot of people in the IWC don't. So I'd like to contextualise the story here (Without saying that you have to like the kind of story it is, you absolutely don't) Typically when we get these sorts of stories the plot remains static until it's not - the young underdog nearly gets the vet, but always gets caught. He's always just barely not good enough. That hasn't quite been the Darby storyline. If I'm not reading into things too much, I think there's been a clear progression in how he's presented in-ring. Just counting the draws and losses we have: 1) Cody where he wasn't good enough to beat him but couldn't put him away. 2) Jericho where he was presented as being almost able to beat Jericho even with a handcuff. The story there was that this dude was on the champion's level and got outsmarted 3) Moxley, where he straight up lost. A bit of an aberration but Moxley is an aberration in terms of AEW booking where he's presented as on an absolutely different level to everyone. 4) Cody again. So this time Darby had Cody beat. Dominated the match. Dominated the guy who he could just about hang with during the summer. Darby has Cody set up for his finish, and Cody's almost out. He only gets the knees up because Arn Anderson gets through to him. The story here is that Darby has progressed to the point of being able to beat Cody. He gets outsmarted again, but this time by a legendary coach. The story here is almost that Arn was good enough to save Cody's match, not that Darby was almost good enough to beat Cody. It's a switch in presentation. I think we'll see them finally having Darby crack through relatively soon. The pieces are all there and he's rapidly progressed without having to go on an extended rookie losing streak storyline. In kayfabe terms he's now less a plucky rookie and more like Omega is where he has all the tools but hasn't quite put it together in a singles match. He's probably on a par with someone like Hangman Page. Right, I get that. I'm not speaking on the story but rather the fact he's lost another big match. It's like I said, I don't care if he lost due to the Avengers stopping him. I'm just not a fan of these big match losses for him regardless of why. Yeah AEW will get him big wins probably within the next 3 months, yeah they'll make him world champion but I'm just not a fan what he's going through right now.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Jan 2, 2020 10:14:13 GMT -5
Darby loses were vs the Top 3 acts of the company(Jericho, Moxley and Cody), I still see him more credible than Trent(who some people have claimed he has been booked too strong).
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 2, 2020 11:05:31 GMT -5
Darby loses were vs the Top 3 acts of the company(Jericho, Moxley and Cody), I still see him more credible than Trent(who some people have claimed he has been booked too strong). Trent got a fairly big win against Pentagon. Darby still needs his big "get". I think that is why some people see Trent as stronger booked.
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Post by autisticgeordie on Jan 2, 2020 11:21:25 GMT -5
If Darby won, people'd be complaining that he's being "booked too strong." That's how it usually works, isn't it? People'll always find a way to complain.
Like, being in the ring with top stars is huge for Darby and he's not exactly looked out of their league, it's just that he doesn't have the experience that the others have. It's not the end of the world because he lost and, honestly, people'd probably bitch if he won.
Are people just being negative for the sake of it, at this point? Because, not trying to brush off valid complaints, but this seems like complaining for the sake of complaining.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 12:50:52 GMT -5
I'm cool with Darby not being *quite* there yet as far as being able to beat the absolute top-tier guys. I'm not going to be pessimistic about his handling because WWE botches this kind of stuff seemingly on a weekly basis. Young guy learning valuable lessons on his way to eventually getting over the hump *can* be a good story, and Darby is a good choice for the role if that's how it goes: he's exciting in the ring, has a cool look, and is very over. I don't think he's going to lose any shine from (barely) falling to the best a few times. Now is the time for him to stack some wins over guys slightly down the card (and a mid-card title would be nice). We'll see.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 2, 2020 12:59:17 GMT -5
I'm cool with Darby not being *quite* there yet as far as being able to beat the absolute top-tier guys. I'm not going to be pessimistic about his handling because WWE botches this kind of stuff seemingly on a weekly basis. Young guy learning valuable lessons on his way to eventually getting over the hump *can* be a good story, and Darby is a good choice for the role if that's how it goes: he's exciting in the ring, has a cool look, and is very over. I don't think he's going to lose any shine from (barely) falling to the best a few times. Now is the time for him to stack some wins over guys slightly down the card (and a mid-card title would be nice). We'll see. If they decide to have a mid card title in the near future, I suddenly just got an image in my head of a tournament ending with a final of “can’t challenge for the world title and thus wants this one” Cody against “now I’ll finally beat Cody one on one and prove my place among the best” Darby. I mean, granted, it feels like any midcard belt should almost automatically go to MJF for awhile, but that’s some fun fantasy booking for the initial title win.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jan 2, 2020 14:00:51 GMT -5
If Darby won, people'd be complaining that he's being "booked too strong." That's how it usually works, isn't it? People'll always find a way to complain. Like, being in the ring with top stars is huge for Darby and he's not exactly looked out of their league, it's just that he doesn't have the experience that the others have. It's not the end of the world because he lost and, honestly, people'd probably bitch if he won. Are people just being negative for the sake of it, at this point? Because, not trying to brush off valid complaints, but this seems like complaining for the sake of complaining. People were also complaining Cody wasn’t booking himself strong enough for a minute, now he wins, ( STEALS a win from Darby, mind you..) and people complain Darby’s being buried. Lol. The Internet was a mistake!..😂
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 2, 2020 14:21:44 GMT -5
The Elite have been damned if they do damned if they don't from day 1 regarding wins and loses.
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Post by KofiMania on Jan 2, 2020 14:42:43 GMT -5
If Darby won, people'd be complaining that he's being "booked too strong." That's how it usually works, isn't it? People'll always find a way to complain. Like, being in the ring with top stars is huge for Darby and he's not exactly looked out of their league, it's just that he doesn't have the experience that the others have. It's not the end of the world because he lost and, honestly, people'd probably bitch if he won. Are people just being negative for the sake of it, at this point? Because, not trying to brush off valid complaints, but this seems like complaining for the sake of complaining. People were also complaining Cody wasn’t booking himself strong enough for a minute, now he wins, ( STEALS a win from Darby, mind you..) and people complain Darby’s being buried. Lol. The Internet was a mistake!..😂 It’s almost like there are lots of people that post here with differing opinions on things.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 2, 2020 14:51:11 GMT -5
Darby is going to be there first home grown star in a since of a guy most even indies savvy fans didn't really know. Compared to The none former WWE members or Elite. Darby was an unknown before AEW and by the end of 2020 He going to be the "Jeff Hardy" of AEW ins a since of a guy who is crazy over, not the biggest fighter in the yard but does a lot of crazy stuff that pulls you in with this punk star like following. There is a lot you can compare the two. Darby to a freshly single wrestler Jeff Hardy. Fans are painting there face much like you see fans dressing like Jeff.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jan 2, 2020 14:58:11 GMT -5
People were also complaining Cody wasn’t booking himself strong enough for a minute, now he wins, ( STEALS a win from Darby, mind you..) and people complain Darby’s being buried. Lol. The Internet was a mistake!..😂 It’s almost like there are lots of people that post here with differing opinions on things. I agree with almost ..lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 17:25:31 GMT -5
Darby loses were vs the Top 3 acts of the company(Jericho, Moxley and Cody), I still see him more credible than Trent(who some people have claimed he has been booked too strong). I think Trent's being booked too strong, but that's mostly just because I see the guy as nothing but bland jobber material who should be destroyed immediately any time he faces someone who's actually good.
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Post by autisticgeordie on Jan 2, 2020 17:29:21 GMT -5
Darby loses were vs the Top 3 acts of the company(Jericho, Moxley and Cody), I still see him more credible than Trent(who some people have claimed he has been booked too strong). I think Trent's being booked too strong, but that's mostly just because I see the guy as nothing but bland jobber material who should be destroyed immediately any time he faces someone who's actually good. So, because you don't like someone, you think they should be buried, no matter how over they are? AEW really are damned if they do, damned if they don't, aren't they? At this point, are you going out of your way not to like them?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 17:32:05 GMT -5
I think Trent's being booked too strong, but that's mostly just because I see the guy as nothing but bland jobber material who should be destroyed immediately any time he faces someone who's actually good. So, because you don't like someone, you think they should be buried, no matter how over they are? AEW really are damned if they do, damned if they don't, aren't they? At this point, are you going out of your way not to like them? I say good shit about AEW all the time. Just because I dislike some things and thought last night was a bad show doesn't mean I dislike everything or even most things. And yeah, I really don't actually care the slightest bit if Trent's over or not. I don't like him so I consider him a blemish. I've said it before but I freely admit I only care what the crowd thinks when they agree with me.
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Post by autisticgeordie on Jan 2, 2020 17:34:57 GMT -5
So, because you don't like someone, you think they should be buried, no matter how over they are? AEW really are damned if they do, damned if they don't, aren't they? At this point, are you going out of your way not to like them? I say good shit about AEW all the time. Just because I dislike some things and thought last night was a bad show doesn't mean I dislike everything or even most things. And yeah, I really don't actually care the slightest bit if Trent's over or not. I don't like him so I consider him a blemish. I've said it before but I freely admit I only care what the crowd thinks when they agree with me. Honestly, that's a Vince McMahon type mindset and we'd rake Vince over the coals for saying "I don't give a f*** what these people want, because I don't like them, we're not pushing them, you (the fans) don't mean shit." You do realise, in a way, you've just said that you'd bury Trent because you don't like him? Honestly, truthfully, if Vince McMahon said that, this forum (me included) would call him every curse word in the book and tell him that that's a terrible mindset.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 17:36:23 GMT -5
I say good shit about AEW all the time. Just because I dislike some things and thought last night was a bad show doesn't mean I dislike everything or even most things. And yeah, I really don't actually care the slightest bit if Trent's over or not. I don't like him so I consider him a blemish. I've said it before but I freely admit I only care what the crowd thinks when they agree with me. Honestly, that's a Vince McMahon type mindset and we'd rake Vince over the coals for saying "I don't give a f*** what these people want, because I don't like them, we're not pushing them, you (the fans) don't mean shit." You do realise, in a way, you've just said that you'd bury Trent because you don't like him? Honestly, truthfully, that seems kinda petty. If I were actually running the shows I'd probably have a different perspective on it. As it is, I'm just a viewer and as a viewer I don't want to watch him.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 2, 2020 17:36:56 GMT -5
I think Trent's being booked too strong, but that's mostly just because I see the guy as nothing but bland jobber material who should be destroyed immediately any time he faces someone who's actually good. So, because you don't like someone, you think they should be buried, no matter how over they are? AEW really are damned if they do, damned if they don't, aren't they? At this point, are you going out of your way not to like them? This logic seems to be what I seen a ton of on all social media. The damn if they do or damn if they don't is perfect way how a lot of people look at AEW. Like for example I've seen it "Well AEW roster is a bunch of indie guys. They need more star power." Same guy on a rumor of AEW interest in lets say Luke Harper "Haha, AEW going after WWE rejects." It's a weird mindset like wrestling fans want something different from the WWE. AEW does that and now they say AEW needs to be more LIKE the WWE. It's like which one is it?
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Post by autisticgeordie on Jan 2, 2020 17:37:25 GMT -5
Honestly, that's a Vince McMahon type mindset and we'd rake Vince over the coals for saying "I don't give a f*** what these people want, because I don't like them, we're not pushing them, you (the fans) don't mean shit." You do realise, in a way, you've just said that you'd bury Trent because you don't like him? Honestly, truthfully, that seems kinda petty. If I were actually running the shows I'd probably have a different perspective on it. As it is, I'm just a viewer and as a viewer I don't want to watch him. I mean, honestly, it's not like I'm any different, ideally, Chuck would be teaming with Orange Cassidy full time. I've always thought Chuck was the HBK of the team out of him and Trent.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 17:40:41 GMT -5
So, because you don't like someone, you think they should be buried, no matter how over they are? AEW really are damned if they do, damned if they don't, aren't they? At this point, are you going out of your way not to like them? This logic seems to be what I seen a ton of on all social media. The damn if they do or damn if they don't is perfect way how a lot of people look at AEW. Like for example I've seen it "Well AEW roster is a bunch of indie guys. They need more star power." Same guy on a rumor of AEW interest in lets say Luke Harper "Haha, AEW going after WWE rejects." It's a weird mindset like wrestling fans want something different from the WWE. AEW does that and now they say AEW needs to be more LIKE the WWE. It's like which one is it? I'm not actually seeing how that's a difference from WWE at all? This Trent thing is basically the same, "Let's shove a super bland guy in with a bunch of actual names and try to make them look like a threat," push Cedric Alexander was getting last year until they gave up and had him lose to AJ over and over and I thought that sucked too.
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