Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,925
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 10, 2020 1:58:34 GMT -5
One thing that could help would be to get rid of the stupid social stigma of being a male virgin. Sex isn't the end all be all in life. I think it's perfectly healthy to watch another man's penis now and then on video form, so you don't have to stare other people's junk in the sauna. That way, you'll learn to love your own magnificent sausage n' afterwards, it'll probably be the only one that you will ever think about. If you're straight (as male), you will still probably mourn for ladies (even if you see a dick). I think gays/lesbians see it the same easy way. You'll get sex in all scenarios. If you're bi though, you will double the chances. And are horny for everything.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jan 10, 2020 6:02:15 GMT -5
Okay, what would you call a guy like myself? A guy who just doesn't have much of a drive to meet women. I mean, I would get attracted to some, but for the most part, I don't feel like meeting women is a priority. I remember a guy who is only two years older than I am giving me shit about how I don't seem interested in meeting women, or getting laid for that matter. It's like it's a priority to get some laid. Not only that, it seems he is affected by my lack of interest. It's not important to me right now, but I don't know why he should care. You call yourself a guy who knows his priorities. The first step along that bad path is labelling yourself something negative.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 10, 2020 7:01:18 GMT -5
Let me differentiate between incels and "nice guys," and explain why I feel sorry for the former while hating the latter. A lot of the obnoxious behavior among the incel crowd is a result of learned and reinforced helplessness within online communities. I know this because I lurked a prominent incel subreddit for quite some time (it was a dark time in my life that led to suicidal thoughts - I'm in therapy now thankfully), and I can tell you that those environments are utterly and completely toxic. Take a socially awkward, probably unhygienic young man. He strikes out with a woman, probably not for the first time. His complaints are undoubtedly childish and simplistic ("women only like jerks!") but it's all rooted in the fact that he feels bad about himself. So he goes to an incel community which tells him "yes you're an utter failure, but you never had a chance to begin with, the deck is stacked against you because of your race/height/bone structure, all you can do is either kill yourself or laugh at all the normies." Now, he's got a gigantic chip on his shoulder and is probably way more vocal about how all women are thots or whatever, but his dislike of himself has been amplified into full-on self-loathing. The incel community can take someone who could almost certainly get a date or have sex if certain conditions were met (which could range from going to therapy, to making friends, to simply a new haircut and wardrobe) and turns them into misanthropic rejects unfit for society. The incels who commit violence or harass women are of course beyond saving, but most of 'em are really just men with severe self-esteem issues partaking in a community that reinforces those self-esteem issues until it becomes the defining element of their personality. And while it's not a great tragedy of the world or anything, I feel bad dog piling on some socially awkward dude who desperately wants intimacy but believes he's too deeply flawed to ever experience it. Because I've been there, and don't wanna' crap on some dude who wasn't able to escape the same pit I was in. "Nice guys" are a different story. While undoubtedly a lot of their manipulative tactics come from a similar sense of self-loathing as the incels, it's still manipulation, and their attempts at seduction under the guise of friendship stigmatize the idea of opposite sex friendships and make things that much harder for genuinely nice guys. Not to toot my own horn but most of my friends are women, and there's been so many instances where I've doubted myself or worried that something I said or did would come off as creepy, on account of these fedora-clad man-children poisoning the well. So in the words of Bad Luck Fale, **** em. Not literally though. Yeah, the great irony in all this is that the concept of men "earning" women, or "conquering" them to "win" sex is a very patriarchal idea: it evokes imagery of men being powerful and dominant as they use women to fulfill their own wants and desires, and thus being "more of a man" for having done so. Like I said before, in this equation women end up reduced to prizes, or sex toys to be had, used, and disposed of, not individuals with agency, hopes and dreams, like and dislikes, etc. And yet the irony comes in when that patriarchal structure which so lionizes "manly men" and treats women as second class citizens...you guessed it, ends up hurting most men, too. Because now if you don't fulfill the traditional image of a "manly/alpha/whatever man", then you're somehow a loser, a waste, inferior, etc., and this leads to things like incel communities bringing up all those self-loathing ideas and absurd justifications for why they're not getting laid, like the weird "the bone structure in your face is off by a few millimeters, you don't stand a chance" arguments. In a patriarchal system, the worst thing someone can accuse you of being is somehow "un-masculine" or overly feminine, like someone saying "you throw like a girl!" as an insult, and thus the patriarchal system instills shame in men who see themselves as less than masculine because they can't just bring women in with sheer force of charisma or handsomeness or something, as if all other men are somehow capable of doing that, either, and it's just them who are lacking. Speaking for myself, it's incredible how much more attention I got from women at different phases of my life: in college I got more interest during my third and fourth years since I committed to working out more, and it not only helped do some necessary weight losing at the time, it simply helped my overall comfort in my own skin and made me more comfortable talking to new people or asking out women I already knew. Later I had to do something like that again after a few years in a job I hated did a number on my self-image. And now in my 30s I'm off the market, yet I mostly feel at ease among people and get more attention because of it (wish I had that all figured out in my teens and 20s!), ironically enough, despite my current semi-dad bod status and bald head.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jan 10, 2020 8:15:58 GMT -5
I don't think it'll ever stop being a "thing" because I doubt we'll ever evolve to the point people stop being upset about lack of romantic/sexual success
They're more visible now due to internet forums and such, whereas before they'd just be some sad mopes in their bedrooms
And the wacky thing is there's tons of equally lonely/bitter "Nice Girls" out there that you think it would sort itself out, but apparently those groups want nothing to do with one another.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,359
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 10, 2020 9:12:27 GMT -5
Okay, what would you call a guy like myself? A guy who just doesn't have much of a drive to meet women. I mean, I would get attracted to some, but for the most part, I don't feel like meeting women is a priority. I remember a guy who is only two years older than I am giving me shit about how I don't seem interested in meeting women, or getting laid for that matter. It's like it's a priority to get some laid. Not only that, it seems he is affected by my lack of interest. It's not important to me right now, but I don't know why he should care. Can I call you someone who is comfortable in their own skin? Don't get me wrong, sex truly is great but it is not worth sacrificing any aspect of your life that you enjoy. As far as why anyone should care, I cannot tell you. I don't think that anyone should, especially since your choices only affect you.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,051
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jan 10, 2020 9:43:23 GMT -5
Okay, what would you call a guy like myself? A guy who just doesn't have much of a drive to meet women. I mean, I would get attracted to some, but for the most part, I don't feel like meeting women is a priority. I remember a guy who is only two years older than I am giving me shit about how I don't seem interested in meeting women, or getting laid for that matter. It's like it's a priority to get some laid. Not only that, it seems he is affected by my lack of interest. It's not important to me right now, but I don't know why he should care.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jan 10, 2020 12:34:29 GMT -5
I don't think it'll ever stop being a "thing" because I doubt we'll ever evolve to the point people stop being upset about lack of romantic/sexual success They're more visible now due to internet forums and such, whereas before they'd just be some sad mopes in their bedrooms And the wacky thing is there's tons of equally lonely/bitter "Nice Girls" out there that you think it would sort itself out, but apparently those groups want nothing to do with one another. I was gonna say the mgtow-thing reminds me of girls coming off bad relationships and being all “f*** Guys! I’m gonna do me” which, is literally a comedy trope but I’ve known quite a few who’ve reacted that way irl lol
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 10, 2020 12:40:55 GMT -5
Lack of sex I can deal with, the thing I miss most as a single man is just the companionship. I had a lady friend spend the night a few weeks back, and I forgot just how much I miss holding someone in my arms as I fall asleep. Or how much I miss seeing someone you care about sleeping comfortably in your bed when you get up to make coffee.
Being without that is infinitely worse to me then a lack of sex. I can buy sex, I can rub one out, but there’s a lot to be said about spending a night holding someone you care about in your arms. Or watching Netflix and actually chilling on the couch. Maybe holding hands, maybe snuggling, but just being there for each other. That’s about the bees f***ing knees for me.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Jan 10, 2020 12:41:21 GMT -5
I must preface this by saying I respect men greatly, most men in my life have been wonderful people and I think a lot of society is hard on men these days.
However, there are absolutely still some guys who have a sense of entitlement about women. In particular those that think having to be friends with a woman is some sort of punishment.
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Dragonfly
Samurai Cop
...is no Barry Windham.
Posts: 2,486
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Post by Dragonfly on Jan 10, 2020 12:42:33 GMT -5
Okay, what would you call a guy like myself? A guy who just doesn't have much of a drive to meet women. I mean, I would get attracted to some, but for the most part, I don't feel like meeting women is a priority. I remember a guy who is only two years older than I am giving me shit about how I don't seem interested in meeting women, or getting laid for that matter. It's like it's a priority to get some laid. Not only that, it seems he is affected by my lack of interest. It's not important to me right now, but I don't know why he should care. Asexual. And no, that's not even remotely a bad thing. My wife, mom, brother and late paternal grandmother are ace. I, on the other hand, am a demisexual - sex is the ultimate expression of true, romantic love. Basically, I have a serious thing for my wife. No one else will do it for me.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jan 10, 2020 12:48:30 GMT -5
Okay, what would you call a guy like myself? A guy who just doesn't have much of a drive to meet women. I mean, I would get attracted to some, but for the most part, I don't feel like meeting women is a priority. I remember a guy who is only two years older than I am giving me shit about how I don't seem interested in meeting women, or getting laid for that matter. It's like it's a priority to get some laid. Not only that, it seems he is affected by my lack of interest. It's not important to me right now, but I don't know why he should care. Asexual. And no, that's not even remotely a bad thing. My wife, mom, brother and late paternal grandmother are ace. I, on the other hand, am a demisexual - sex is the ultimate expression of true, romantic love. Basically, I have a serious thing for my wife. No one else will do it for me. That's not asexuality though. Asexuality precludes any sexual interest at all. You can have a low sex drive and still want it sometimes.
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,230
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Post by agent817 on Jan 10, 2020 13:51:56 GMT -5
Okay, what would you call a guy like myself? A guy who just doesn't have much of a drive to meet women. I mean, I would get attracted to some, but for the most part, I don't feel like meeting women is a priority. I remember a guy who is only two years older than I am giving me shit about how I don't seem interested in meeting women, or getting laid for that matter. It's like it's a priority to get some laid. Not only that, it seems he is affected by my lack of interest. It's not important to me right now, but I don't know why he should care. Asexual. And no, that's not even remotely a bad thing. My wife, mom, brother and late paternal grandmother are ace. I, on the other hand, am a demisexual - sex is the ultimate expression of true, romantic love. Basically, I have a serious thing for my wife. No one else will do it for me. I don't consider myself asexual. Asexuality means having absolutely no sexual interest at all. I do have somewhat of a drive, but it's not enough that I have to go an pursue every attractive woman I see. I just think that I am more interested in other things at the moment besides women.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 13:58:05 GMT -5
Honestly the whole idea of sex is just ridiculously offputting to me personally. If you're into it, awesome, gotta continue the species somehow, but to me I can't sleep if I have socks on because they feel too restrictive, I cannot even imagine finding someone climbing all over me anything but nightmarish.
Granted I also don't really know what my sexuality even is (I think it's kind of somewhere between ace and bi, sort of have aspects of both) but I also don't especially care about putting a label on it.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Jan 10, 2020 20:43:27 GMT -5
Yes, as many here have already said, it's definitely still a thing.
It should be noted the "nice guys" absolutely exist in LGBTQ+ culture as well. It's not exclusive to cis het culture at all. I can't even begin to tell you how many guys I've seen on Grindr, Scruff, etc. think they're entitled to a boyfriend or a meet-up or even just a response to one of their messages. The heteronormative, capitalist idea of having a partner be a key component to your personal success is so deeply imbedded that it even goes beyond sexual orientation or gender identity. It's certainly some messed-up bullshit.
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Post by Cela on Jan 10, 2020 21:11:31 GMT -5
Of course, meek people have seen in most movies, tv shows, and various media that if you are a good person who is supportive, eventually the girl of your dreams will see that you are perfect for them and date you.
Of course, meek people often have lesser social skills and rejection/loneliness turns to resentment, and it spirals exponentially.
Coupled with the fact that the internet has decided that even level 1 nice guys are scum worthy of ridicule, it makes sense that the mindset would be radicalized, it is easy to see why the growing trend of incel is picking up steam.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,723
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 11, 2020 0:42:54 GMT -5
...JFC, you literally always take a "f*** you, male gender" position on social issues. It was almost certainly an observation, borne out by many, _many_ Reddit threads, of screenshots from text convos, in which guys do a 180 in conversation with a woman once they find out she's not sexually or romantically interested in them. It's a societal "perfect storm" - you have young men, largely having grown up a) with considerable amounts of material resources largely focused on their leisure (who's buying the game consoles for the most part? The big-screen TVs?) b) who were not put under any amount of pressure to do well in school or to put in effort towards a trade or occupation or even a personal financial goal, and indeed through more recent legislation and regulations have had some of those goals either taken off the table or deferred; and c) whose social contacts have been extremely limited within their own neighbourhoods and communities, but extremely expanded online where they can conduct relationships according to their own instincts rather than broader societal expectations. It's not only men, but it is largely men whose violence does the greater damage when such young men don't get their way. And when it comes to romantic relationships, such men really don't have a clue how to treat women outside of their media-centered bubble. Not all men are like that, but enough are to scare off many young women from any kind of relationships.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,723
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 11, 2020 0:50:34 GMT -5
Okay, what would you call a guy like myself? A guy who just doesn't have much of a drive to meet women. I mean, I would get attracted to some, but for the most part, I don't feel like meeting women is a priority. I remember a guy who is only two years older than I am giving me shit about how I don't seem interested in meeting women, or getting laid for that matter. It's like it's a priority to get some laid. Not only that, it seems he is affected by my lack of interest. It's not important to me right now, but I don't know why he should care. You could simply be asexual or aromantic (or at least on that track). If it's not a priority for you but you still treat people around like human beings deserving of empathy and dignity, you do you.
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