Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 30, 2020 0:20:59 GMT -5
He's an outspoken defender of Kevin Nash, always praised Shawn as a performer, Sean Waltman, Cm Punk... He always seems to praise new guys, but that doesn't draw headlines, nor can it be used as a stick to beat him with so it gets overlooked. Aren't Nash and Bret on the outs right now?..over Bret's comments bout how the Kliq wanted Bret to be their leader with Nash, Hall, and Pac denying it? ...then again, you can go on YouTube and find many different vids with Nash saying he hates or likes Bret, so I guess it depends on Nash's mood at the time There is also the fact that Hogan & The Kliq are as trustworthy as a 3 dollar bill.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 30, 2020 6:56:01 GMT -5
Does anyone truly like Hogan? I think there's a number of mid-80s wrestlers who will usually defend Hogan in large part because he was so over that just working the same house show circuit as hime during the height of Hulkamania was enough to allow a lot of guys to pay off their mortgages and things like that. It's not a good reason to defend the shit Hogan's done, but I can at least understand why they might feel that way. I think I also recall a part in Bret's book where he says that up to a certain point, even when he was getting all the mainstream attention Hogan still came across like "one of the boys", at least for awhile. He made it sound like something changed along the way, but at least for a time things probably felt alright. If I had to guess at a couple situations that might've changed Hogan's demeanor, I imagine it might've involved helping to bust Jesse Ventura's union-organizing and how tightly he kept holding onto his spot even when it was clear he couldn't do the same business that he had done in the 80s.
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Post by flakeymcgill on Mar 30, 2020 8:11:10 GMT -5
The animosity always seems odd because there's very little overlap. When Bret was a WWF main eventer from October 1992 to November of 1997, in those 5 years Hogan ostensibly made only 2 appearances, both in 1993.
Out of the 1854 days Bret spent as a main event guy for Vince, Hogan was only active as a main event guy for the company for just 70 days of that.
WCW maybe didn't make the most of Bret Hart but his issue with Hogan maybe stems from a retrospective entitlement that he should have gotten the belt sooner than 1992 and that maybe guys like Hogan and Warrior were holding guys like him down. If not then the resentment does seem kind of odd given how minimal the overlap between these two guys careers actually was.
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Post by corndog on Mar 30, 2020 9:32:10 GMT -5
Weren't Hogan and Flair eager participants in the burial DVD they began making before Bret's return? Yep, Vince did a Screwed The Bret Hart Story. It had Hogan and Flair (and Trips and Shawn) taking shots at him. Vince showed it to him which was why he did the best there is DVD I heard rumors of the burial DVD, didn't know Vince showed it to Bret and who participated. No surprise with Shawn and HHH at the time, but if Flair and Hogan were involved that explains a lot of Bret's animosity towards them. I know Bret wasn't quite sure who was holding him down in WCW, if it was Nash or Hogan.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 30, 2020 9:32:27 GMT -5
Or he went into WCW white hot and saw Hulk Hogan do everything he could to smother that, with the situation so bad he had to run spots in his matches past Hulk when he wasn't involved in any way.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 30, 2020 12:12:21 GMT -5
Does anyone truly like Hogan? When Hogan isn't being an ass or doesn't have any personal gain he does come across likable You've had people say favorable things about him I would say listen to the podcast he did with Stone Cold I think middle of last year. A little over two hours of them just talking with Hogan just being himself for the most part and not trying to BS you or sell you on shit
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Post by jason1980s on Mar 30, 2020 12:15:09 GMT -5
Bret is all about his career over anything else and I say that as a huge Bret fan. He feels Hulk hurt his career in 1993 and will always hold that grudge. He has to believe Vince because Vince is the guy who helps his WWE Legend career keep going.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 30, 2020 12:17:02 GMT -5
The animosity always seems odd because there's very little overlap. When Bret was a WWF main eventer from October 1992 to November of 1997, in those 5 years Hogan ostensibly made only 2 appearances, both in 1993. Out of the 1854 days Bret spent as a main event guy for Vince, Hogan was only active as a main event guy for the company for just 70 days of that. WCW maybe didn't make the most of Bret Hart but his issue with Hogan maybe stems from a retrospective entitlement that he should have gotten the belt sooner than 1992 and that maybe guys like Hogan and Warrior were holding guys like him down. If not then the resentment does seem kind of odd given how minimal the overlap between these two guys careers actually was. Ehh that's not all the way true Those "70 days only" stopped whatever momentum Bret had. Hogan came in and Bret immediately dropped the title to Yoko so then Hogan would have it. Hogan came back when the heat died down while Bret was trying to help the company out of the hole they were in His resentment comes from how Hogan wouldn't do business. Bret thought the favor would be returned as he was the guy in place of Hogan and working with Hogan would have been a boost. Hogan basically told him he wasn't in his league and put Yoko over before he left
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 12:28:59 GMT -5
The Leader Says... [Insert here]
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Post by jason1980s on Mar 30, 2020 12:47:04 GMT -5
IIRC a WWF magazine put out that summer had a few page write up about a potential Hogan/Hart feud. I know WWF mag was about 3 months behind during those times so it was probably written around April or May. I personally liked the way Bret's career went in 1993 because it was so organic compared to Lex who was built to be the top guy. Bret wins a huge KOTR tournament while Lex gets a draw loss, Bret starts a huge feud with his brother while Lex pins Ludvig Borga at Survivor Series. Borga would go on to leave a few months later. Then Bret wins the fan favorite voting in late 1993 which was probably not rigged, Bret gets the bigger pop and better injury storyline at Royal Rumble and finally Bret has an amazing celebration with most of the faces at WrestleMania. This was a perfect way to end a season finale if wrestling had seasons. It might have been a tough next few years for Bret but he still did an amazing job.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Mar 30, 2020 13:00:03 GMT -5
Does anyone truly like Hogan? When Hogan isn't being an ass or doesn't have any personal gain he does come across likable You've had people say favorable things about him I would say listen to the podcast he did with Stone Cold I think middle of last year. A little over two hours of them just talking with Hogan just being himself for the most part and not trying to BS you or sell you on shit When it comes to the other wrestlers during his heyday it seems like a lot more people like Hogan then don't. Off the top of my head Bret and Shawn are the only guys I think that don't care for him. Listening to shoot interviews of 80's WWF wrestlers they all pretty much liked Hogan. Part of it was because he made them a lot of money with how big of a draw he was but also because it seems like he was a pretty personable and friendly guy who would still hang out with the rest of the boys and didn't act like he was above them or anything. When it comes to the top guys during that era it definitely seems like he was a lot more popular then Savage and Warrior.
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Post by flakeymcgill on Mar 30, 2020 13:01:04 GMT -5
The animosity always seems odd because there's very little overlap. When Bret was a WWF main eventer from October 1992 to November of 1997, in those 5 years Hogan ostensibly made only 2 appearances, both in 1993. Out of the 1854 days Bret spent as a main event guy for Vince, Hogan was only active as a main event guy for the company for just 70 days of that. WCW maybe didn't make the most of Bret Hart but his issue with Hogan maybe stems from a retrospective entitlement that he should have gotten the belt sooner than 1992 and that maybe guys like Hogan and Warrior were holding guys like him down. If not then the resentment does seem kind of odd given how minimal the overlap between these two guys careers actually was. Ehh that's not all the way true Those "70 days only" stopped whatever momentum Bret had. Hogan came in and Bret immediately dropped the title to Yoko so then Hogan would have it. Hogan came back when the heat died down while Bret was trying to help the company out of the hole they were in His resentment comes from how Hogan wouldn't do business. Bret thought the favor would be returned as he was the guy in place of Hogan and working with Hogan would have been a boost. Hogan basically told him he wasn't in his league and put Yoko over before he left Bret didn't really have any momentum. His title run had been disappointing and Vince had a brand-new monster heel with all the potential for a jingoistic, nationalist #USA-A-OK guaranteed to get his nipples hard. Even if Hogan didn't come back in February of 1993 there was almost a 100% cert Vince would have found a way of going in a different direction by the time WM9 rolled around. When Hogan did come back, Vince had his out. When Hogan proved to be a disappointment, he repositioned Lugar as the American hero. One things for sure - Bret wasn't keeping the strap no matter what Vince told him to pacify him. It's easy to blame a guy you know is leaving. Bret was only ever bought back into the title scene once that failed, almost a year later. In fact I'd say Bret's run as top guy in Vince's eyes was doomed the second Yoko became identified as a main eventer, so probably fall of 1992. There's no chance in hell Vince wasn't always planning to have/create an american hero ready to do battle with him throughout the spring and summer of 1993.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 13:08:27 GMT -5
Does anyone truly like Hogan? A lot of shoot interviews from people he worked with are favorable towards him. Even the black talent he worked with say good things about him. It seems like when Hulk is in a position of weakness/defense, the asshole in him comes out (the leaked phone call with his son, the leaked racist rant, etc). Of course I don’t know the man personally so I’m basing this just off hearsay but I’ve heard more negative stories in shoot interviews about Shawn Michaels (for example) than Hogan.
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Post by flakeymcgill on Mar 30, 2020 13:12:47 GMT -5
Hogan is an ass in the sense that he protected his spot and probably prevented lots of people from getting over. He also has his cronies and at times towards the end it was clear who the Hogan ass kissers were. I struggle to see Bret among those who were adversely affected by it though as even if Hogan never returned after WM8 I think the impetus behind Bret's departure from the title picture for almost a year was the creation of a Japanese monster heel.
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Mar 30, 2020 13:17:23 GMT -5
Does anyone truly like Hogan? A lot of shoot interviews from people he worked with are favorable towards him. Even the black talent he worked with say good things about him. It seems like when Hulk is in a position of weakness/defense, the asshole in him comes out (the leaked phone call with his son, the leaked racist rant, etc). Of course I don’t know the man personally so I’m basing this just off hearsay but I’ve heard more negative stories in shoot interviews about Shawn Michaels (for example) than Hogan. I mean it is not secret no one liked Shawn. Most time I hear people liking Hogan is more that they liked the money he made for then.It definitely seems once on top his worst qualities took over at least
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Post by mauled on Mar 30, 2020 13:18:14 GMT -5
Hogan is an ass in the sense that he protected his spot and probably prevented lots of people from getting over. He also has his cronies and at times towards the end it was clear who the Hogan ass kissers were. I struggle to see Bret among those who were adversely affected by it though as even if Hogan never returned after WM8 I think the impetus behind Bret's departure from the title picture for almost a year was the creation of a Japanese monster heel. We were talking about 98/99 Bret not 94
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Post by mauled on Mar 30, 2020 13:21:34 GMT -5
A lot of shoot interviews from people he worked with are favorable towards him. Even the black talent he worked with say good things about him. It seems like when Hulk is in a position of weakness/defense, the asshole in him comes out (the leaked phone call with his son, the leaked racist rant, etc). Of course I don’t know the man personally so I’m basing this just off hearsay but I’ve heard more negative stories in shoot interviews about Shawn Michaels (for example) than Hogan. I mean it is not secret no one liked Shawn. Most time I hear people liking Hogan is more that they liked the money he made for then.It definitely seems once on top his worst qualities took over at least If you weren't a threat to Hogan you were fine. Guys the Nastys or Earthquake were never going to take that Top Spot but Bret would and could and that's a whole different matter for Hogan
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Post by flakeymcgill on Mar 30, 2020 13:23:21 GMT -5
There's a Raw available on the WWE Network, post-KOTR93 but pre the USS Intrepid event. Vince was conducting an interview in the ring with Yokozuna and Fuji. At it's conclusion Vince led the crowd in a patriotic and aggressive chanting of "USA! USA! USA! USA!"
The suggestion that the original plan was to end it all by having the Canadian Bret Hart leave Summerslam with the world title is the most egregious example of 'believing what I want to believe' there is in modern-day WWE.
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Post by jason1980s on Mar 30, 2020 13:51:03 GMT -5
Bret was only ever bought back into the title scene once that failed, almost a year later. In fact I'd say Bret's run as top guy in Vince's eyes was doomed the second Yoko became identified as a main eventer, so probably fall of 1992. There's no chance in hell Vince wasn't always planning to have/create an american hero ready to do battle with him throughout the spring and summer of 1993. It seems funny to me how Yoko was groomed so early on for the main event run but even a few months into his time, some didn't know how to pronounce his name. Bobby Heenan called him "Yoko Zuno" while Mr. Fuji called "Yoko Zuma" and of course, even though early in the run, Virgil called him "Yaka Zuna." I think Royal Rumble was the first time a heel had won the end match of a PPV. There's a Raw available on the WWE Network, post-KOTR93 but pre the USS Intrepid event. Vince was conducting an interview in the ring with Yokozuna and Fuji. At it's conclusion Vince led the crowd in a patriotic and aggressive chanting of "USA! USA! USA! USA!" The suggestion that the original plan was to end it all by having the Canadian Bret Hart leave Summerslam with the world title is the most egregious example of 'believing what I want to believe' there is in modern-day WWE. I wonder how early on Lex was slated to be the USA main eventer against Yoko considering WWF Magazine was usually 3 months behind but up to date come summerslam time. I'm guessing the low to mid card matches were scheduled between after WrestleMania and before KOTR but perhaps the main event pages were published right before newsstand time. I'm guessing the Bret/Lawler match was in place well before Lex turned face.
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Post by flakeymcgill on Mar 30, 2020 14:03:36 GMT -5
I think Luger was earmarked the second Vince knew Hogan wasn't sticking around. The direction (including the intrepid booking) would have been settled probably by May at the latest.
I just challenge anyone to honestly to put themselves in Vince's shoes at the time; it's the early 90s, you've got a new main event monster heel who comes to the ring with a massive Japanese flag waving. You've just booked the USS Intrepid for 4th of July.
IMO it takes an almost comical level of delusion to think the original plan for this to all end was: "God damn it pal, give the belt to the Canadian Bret Hart!"
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