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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Aug 29, 2021 16:28:49 GMT -5
Okay? He's clearly a very good professional wrestler! I dunno. He did have some pretty strong communist beliefs in his past. Yeah, but come on, the WWE doesn't want indie wrestlers anymore. They want blank slates they can build from the ground up into whatever they want. Um. There's a term for this, but I don't remember what it is. Anyway.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Aug 30, 2021 22:47:56 GMT -5
Explains why his partners kept disappearing.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 30, 2021 23:26:42 GMT -5
Explains why his partners kept disappearing. If someone else and not Quack was running CHIKARA I feel like it would have actually grown and been one of the topper tier promotions instead of well... dead with the shit reputation it has now thanks to what happened under his watch.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Aug 30, 2021 23:56:37 GMT -5
Explains why his partners kept disappearing. If someone else and not Quack was running CHIKARA I feel like it would have actually grown and been one of the topper tier promotions instead of well... dead with the shit reputation it has now thanks to what happened under his watch. that's a double edge sword, because without Quack it would've ended up becoming another generic indy and not had the whacky gimmicks and outrageous, intricate storylines. i mean who besides Mike Quackenbush would decided to make someone a medieval knight who forms a tag team with a younger version of himself, only to split them up over a literal wrestling dragon, resulting in match where the loser is sent back in time. so without Quack there's a chance CHIKARA could have been bigger (a chance because, lets face it, he wasn't the first and won't be the last scummy promoter), but it also wouldn't be the CHIKARA everyone knew and loved
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 31, 2021 0:00:12 GMT -5
If someone else and not Quack was running CHIKARA I feel like it would have actually grown and been one of the topper tier promotions instead of well... dead with the shit reputation it has now thanks to what happened under his watch. that's a double edge sword, because without Quack it would've ended up becoming another generic indy and not had the whacky gimmicks and outrageous, intricate storylines. i mean who besides Mike Quackenbush would decided to make someone a medieval knight who forms a tag team with a younger version of himself, only to split them up over a literal wrestling dragon, resulting in match where the loser is sent back in time. so without Quack there's a chance CHIKARA could have been bigger (a chance because, lets face it, he wasn't the first and won't be the last scummy promoter), but it also wouldn't be the CHIKARA everyone knew and loved I think what ultimately killed them is Quack needed to actually answer to someone. Him having absolute power in the end is what killed them. He should have been head booker but someone else might have been better served to help run operations and finances. And overall quality control of the company at that. Quack in the end being the end all be all seemed to alienate and push wrestling itself away until CHIKARA eventually fizzled out of the mainstream and then collapsed in the most unthinkable way imaginable.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Aug 31, 2021 0:07:24 GMT -5
If someone else and not Quack was running CHIKARA I feel like it would have actually grown and been one of the topper tier promotions instead of well... dead with the shit reputation it has now thanks to what happened under his watch. that's a double edge sword, because without Quack it would've ended up becoming another generic indy and not had the whacky gimmicks and outrageous, intricate storylines. i mean who besides Mike Quackenbush would decided to make someone a medieval knight who forms a tag team with a younger version of himself, only to split them up over a literal wrestling dragon, resulting in match where the loser is sent back in time. so without Quack there's a chance CHIKARA could have been bigger (a chance because, lets face it, he wasn't the first and won't be the last scummy promoter), but it also wouldn't be the CHIKARA everyone knew and loved Honestly, I think plenty of other people could have been as eccentric and creative, if not more, but because of Quack being Quack, we probably never got to hear of them during this era.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Aug 31, 2021 0:16:55 GMT -5
that's a double edge sword, because without Quack it would've ended up becoming another generic indy and not had the whacky gimmicks and outrageous, intricate storylines. i mean who besides Mike Quackenbush would decided to make someone a medieval knight who forms a tag team with a younger version of himself, only to split them up over a literal wrestling dragon, resulting in match where the loser is sent back in time. so without Quack there's a chance CHIKARA could have been bigger (a chance because, lets face it, he wasn't the first and won't be the last scummy promoter), but it also wouldn't be the CHIKARA everyone knew and loved Honestly, I think plenty of other people could have been as eccentric and creative, if not more, but because of Quack being Quack, we probably never got to hear of them during this era. This reminds me, did we ever learn what the original Snowflake storyline was s'posed to be before Quack decided to meddle?
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Sept 9, 2021 18:27:29 GMT -5
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 9, 2021 18:52:42 GMT -5
I've been watching old shows, and it's kind of shocking to me how drastically and dramatically the quality of the Wrestle Factory graduates plummeted. I kind of always thought, "Well, they're mostly not great" and hey, the show wasn't usually about amazing mat skills. But wow: 'not great' referring to Hydra or Shane Storm or Jakob Hammermeier is very different from the "not great" referring to Warren Barksdale or The Whisper or Xavier Faraday. Like, Icarus was never amazing, but he always seemed like a real wrestler. But a lot of the later graduates I just can't see as real wrestlers... though some have become that since Chikara closed.
It's just such a huge, huge difference. Is it seriously just Castagnoli leaving?
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Sept 9, 2021 18:54:54 GMT -5
Like, Icarus was never amazing... his back tattoo sure as heck wasn't...
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 9, 2021 19:20:31 GMT -5
Honestly, I think plenty of other people could have been as eccentric and creative, if not more, but because of Quack being Quack, we probably never got to hear of them during this era. This reminds me, did we ever learn what the original Snowflake storyline was s'posed to be before Quack decided to meddle? I imagine Whisper pretty much just got what Snowflake was going to be given. So... a much more interesting version of what we saw with The Whisper.
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mattyy
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Post by mattyy on Sept 9, 2021 21:46:38 GMT -5
I've been watching old shows, and it's kind of shocking to me how drastically and dramatically the quality of the Wrestle Factory graduates plummeted. I kind of always thought, "Well, they're mostly not great" and hey, the show wasn't usually about amazing mat skills. But wow: 'not great' referring to Hydra or Shane Storm or Jakob Hammermeier is very different from the "not great" referring to Warren Barksdale or The Whisper or Xavier Faraday. Like, Icarus was never amazing, but he always seemed like a real wrestler. But a lot of the later graduates I just can't see as real wrestlers... though some have become that since Chikara closed. It's just such a huge, huge difference. Is it seriously just Castagnoli leaving? Claudio leaving and Quack only wanting to train his guys enough to where they could have good CHIKARA matches and not enough to have good matches in any other style.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 9, 2021 21:49:39 GMT -5
Ok but Danhausen and Ultramantis Black could be tag team of the year.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 9, 2021 21:53:42 GMT -5
I've been watching old shows, and it's kind of shocking to me how drastically and dramatically the quality of the Wrestle Factory graduates plummeted. I kind of always thought, "Well, they're mostly not great" and hey, the show wasn't usually about amazing mat skills. But wow: 'not great' referring to Hydra or Shane Storm or Jakob Hammermeier is very different from the "not great" referring to Warren Barksdale or The Whisper or Xavier Faraday. Like, Icarus was never amazing, but he always seemed like a real wrestler. But a lot of the later graduates I just can't see as real wrestlers... though some have become that since Chikara closed. It's just such a huge, huge difference. Is it seriously just Castagnoli leaving? Claudio and Hero Leaving. No longer having connections to Skyade and CZW. Both things killed The WrestleFactory's workrate. A lot of older CHIKARA guys were trained as much by Quack as they were Claudio and Hero. When they left? Quack only wanted to train his wrestlers good enough to be "CHIKARA" guys and not really get booked anywhere else. Quack's booking was so finite I don't think he could handle losing them to bigger promotions and much better pay days. Especially when CHIKARA lost its luster in the later 2010's. Stopped travelling. Lost a lot of peoples interest. There was a reason Chuck Taylor walked out during a Factory class I have to imagine and never came back.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Sept 9, 2021 21:56:46 GMT -5
Man, f*** Quack.
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Post by Psicofreak667 on Sept 10, 2021 0:25:25 GMT -5
It's been a long time since I read this, but I remember reading someone saying that there were three people who could successfully call Quack to task when he was in one of his moods - Delirious, Eddie Kingston and Ultramantis Black.
Eddie's the only one who ever told his side of the story, and even he was pretty vague, just saying that he and Quack flamed out one too many times, plus he'd already done everything there was to do in CHIKARA and he had no real reason to go back.
Everyone's talked about Ultramantis' falling out with Quack being a relatively recent thing and wishing he would tell his side of it, but to my knowledge he hasn't.
As for Delirious, I don't know that I've ever seen anyone so much as talk about his relationship with CHIKARA. He became drastically less active in all promotions not just CHIKARA towards the second half of 2011, and after he lost his loser leaves match to UMB in 2012, he stuck to it - never showed up in CHIKARA again.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Sept 10, 2021 0:35:05 GMT -5
As for Delirious, I don't know that I've ever seen anyone so much as talk about his relationship with CHIKARA. He became drastically less active in all promotions not just CHIKARA towards the second half of 2011, and after he lost his loser leaves match to UMB in 2012, he stuck to it - never showed up in CHIKARA again. That was 2014, he Tyr'd Hallowicked and Frightmare on the way out to kick off the Nazmaldun saga. This reminds me, did we ever learn what the original Snowflake storyline was s'posed to be before Quack decided to meddle? I imagine Whisper pretty much just got what Snowflake was going to be given. So... a much more interesting version of what we saw with The Whisper. I know Whisper inherited most of what Snowflake had, I'm mainly thinking of the parts involving Argus. He disappeared not long afterward. Bit of a waste IMO, he was fun.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Sept 10, 2021 0:35:11 GMT -5
eh, Dasher's okay, but he's no Ultimo Breakfast neither of them are Moscow, Communist Bovine.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Sept 10, 2021 0:43:28 GMT -5
I've been watching old shows, and it's kind of shocking to me how drastically and dramatically the quality of the Wrestle Factory graduates plummeted. I kind of always thought, "Well, they're mostly not great" and hey, the show wasn't usually about amazing mat skills. But wow: 'not great' referring to Hydra or Shane Storm or Jakob Hammermeier is very different from the "not great" referring to Warren Barksdale or The Whisper or Xavier Faraday. Like, Icarus was never amazing, but he always seemed like a real wrestler. But a lot of the later graduates I just can't see as real wrestlers... though some have become that since Chikara closed. It's just such a huge, huge difference. Is it seriously just Castagnoli leaving? Claudio and Hero Leaving. No longer having connections to Skyade and CZW. Both things killed The WrestleFactory's workrate. A lot of older CHIKARA guys were trained as much by Quack as they were Claudio and Hero. When they left? Quack only wanted to train his wrestlers good enough to be "CHIKARA" guys and not really get booked anywhere else. Quack's booking was so finite I don't think he could handle losing them to bigger promotions and much better pay days. Especially when CHIKARA lost its luster in the later 2010's. Stopped travelling. Lost a lot of peoples interest. There was a reason Chuck Taylor walked out during a Factory class I have to imagine and never came back. I don't know if I heard Chuck walked out... but I do remember the weird... "Chuck Taylor(tm)" gimmick that seemed really stupid...
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 10, 2021 1:22:24 GMT -5
I know Whisper inherited most of what Snowflake had, I'm mainly thinking of the parts involving Argus. He disappeared not long afterward. Bit of a waste IMO, he was fun. Well, remembering the gimmick... hm, he was a brash, cocky young stud who got in over his head trying to be a hero and got his friends killed. The guilt caused a dark hidden personality to manifest, which was called Snowflake (owning the word older people had used to mock him and his generation). He collected other dark misfits, and he wavered between being a petulant, angry kid and a dark mysterious weirdo. But, all these misfits were really dangerous, because they were all trained by secret private military corporations. And Snowflake himself was... raised at an orphanage which itself was a secret child super soldier training camp, I think? And the dark Snowflake persona was his sleeper supersoldier part emerging? And Argus was an informant who knew all this? At least some of this is right. Soooo... I mean connecting that to whatever was going on with Soldier Ant makes the most sense. Add him, you got a nice little boss stable. God, Whisper was around for years longer than Snowflake was, and I remember all this and could not tell you one sentence about who Whisper was or what he wanted.
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