Sonic The Hedgehog: Return To Robotropolis (Satam)

[thechase]

Art staff Q+A




A bunch of fans are putting together a crowd-funding project to revive Sonic SATAM for a third season. The season will be based off of the late Ben Hurst's notes for what would have been in that season, as well as ideas and concepts taken from their own fan-made comic book continuation.

Follow it's progress here


www.youtube.com/channel/UCqt_nJIqqXLX2avpnoxmpMA

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

I remember hearing about this. The original S3ason webcomic this is based on is pretty enjoyable (it’s one of many well made Sonic fancomics floating around, but that’s another topic).

[thechase]

Aug 1, 2020 14:38:15 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

I remember hearing about this. The original S3ason webcomic this is based on is pretty enjoyable (it’s one of many well made Sonic fancomics floating around, but that’s another topic).

I don't think I've read the S3ason comic in forever, and I was there for the first issue, what year was that? Definitely early 2000s.

I had no idea it was the same team...I just assumed it was another very recent webcomic I wasn't aware of.

[HMARK Center]

Aug 1, 2020 14:47:21 GMT -5 thechase said:

Aug 1, 2020 14:38:15 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

I remember hearing about this. The original S3ason webcomic this is based on is pretty enjoyable (it’s one of many well made Sonic fancomics floating around, but that’s another topic).

I don't think I've read the S3ason comic in forever, and I was there for the first issue, what year was that? Definitely early 2000s.

I had no idea it was the same team...I just assumed it was another very recent webcomic I wasn't aware of.

Not as long ago as you think, closer to 2010, I think. I actually sent in a VO audition tape the first time they tried to put some animation together, but clearly things didn't get off the ground at that point, here's hoping for a better outcome this time.

[CMWaters]

Having only looked on the outside of this without doing more research, I have to ask:

Did they ever get around to having Super Sonic in this?

...because I remember being disappointed as a kid one of SatAM's eps was titled "Super Sonic" and Super Sonic didn't appear.

[BorneAgain]

Aug 1, 2020 18:10:59 GMT -5 CMWaters said:

Having only looked on the outside of this without doing more research, I have to ask:

Did they ever get around to having Super Sonic in this?

...because I remember being disappointed as a kid one of SatAM's eps was titled "Super Sonic" and Super Sonic didn't appear.

It did not. In fact of the 6 animated ventures the series has had (SatAM, AoStH, Underground, OVA, X, Boom), its only Sonic X that saw Super Sonic appear.

[CMWaters]

Aug 1, 2020 18:24:57 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

Aug 1, 2020 18:10:59 GMT -5 CMWaters said:

Having only looked on the outside of this without doing more research, I have to ask:

Did they ever get around to having Super Sonic in this?

...because I remember being disappointed as a kid one of SatAM's eps was titled "Super Sonic" and Super Sonic didn't appear.

It did not. In fact of the 6 animated ventures the series has had (SatAM, AoStH, Underground, OVA, X, Boom), its only Sonic X that saw Super Sonic appear.

I more meant the continuation part by the fans, not the actual series itself.

I knew X was the only one that has had animated Super Sonic.

[thechase]

Aug 1, 2020 18:09:11 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Aug 1, 2020 14:47:21 GMT -5 thechase said:

I don't think I've read the S3ason comic in forever, and I was there for the first issue, what year was that? Definitely early 2000s.

I had no idea it was the same team...I just assumed it was another very recent webcomic I wasn't aware of.

Not as long ago as you think, closer to 2010, I think.

That's crazy. I thought for sure I found a third season webcomic around 2003 or something.  On their website, they mention the current version of the comic was started in 2009. but there had been an earlier version with a different creative team attempted much earlier, but it fell apart. Maybe that's what I'm referring to, or maybe I'm thinking of the one Ian Flynn worked on?

[thechase]

And they have hit 2000 subscribers! (2.03k now as of this writing)

[HMARK Center]

Aug 2, 2020 2:56:26 GMT -5 thechase said:

Aug 1, 2020 18:09:11 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Not as long ago as you think, closer to 2010, I think.

That's crazy. I thought for sure I found a third season webcomic around 2003 or something.  On their website, they mention the current version of the comic was started in 2009. but there had been an earlier version with a different creative team attempted much earlier, but it fell apart. Maybe that's what I'm referring to, or maybe I'm thinking of the one Ian Flynn worked on?

If I recall correctly, you may be remember two things that both existed; an earlier attempt at a season 3 webcomic by the "Fans United for SatAM" group and a separate webcomic that Flynn did that helped get him noticed by Archie comics. The more recently version of the FUSatAM webcomic is what they tried to get going in animated form a few years back, so seems that's what they're trying to get going again.

I'll always say that what SatAM did so well that I wish more Sonic media would try is that it made Sonic and pals feel like legitimate underdogs against Robotnik; it wasn't just that Cummings' dark take on Robotnik made him intimidating, it was that you had a show where even Sonic himself, spiny/speedy little deus ex machina that he is, often had to keep to stealth movements in between speed bursts and couldn't always win at the end of the day. I'll always have a place in my nostalgic heart for the series since it was legitimately the first cartoon I followed closely where I had a feeling of "woah, it's possible that something bad could happen to one of the characters in this, isn't it?", even if as an adult I can look back and realize they weren't likely to do anything crazy with the main cast.

...Damn, now I wish I could try out again for this, I want another crack at trying Robotnik's or Uncle Chuck's voice.

[thechase]

[camphor #BLM]

[thechase]

Get ready to make frantic use of the pause button, as there's a few hidden easter eggs that flash on screen for a micro-second and at random points

[BorneAgain]

Only somewhat related but one of the better gaming/Sonic YouTubers did a pretty solid retrospective on Sally Acorn why she's so meaningful to much of the fanbase:



For those aren't familiar with her, its a good explanation of her role and even those that were Archie fans its still an effective look back on her, including post-reboot.

[HMARK Center]

Sept 20, 2020 9:42:05 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

Only somewhat related but one of the better gaming/Sonic YouTubers did a pretty solid retrospective on Sally Acorn why she's so meaningful to much of the fanbase:



For those aren't familiar with her, its a good explanation of her role and even those that were Archie fans its still an effective look back on her, including post-reboot.

That video did my nostalgic heart some good, but it definitely did bring up some interesting points in the process.

It's hard to ignore that when Sonic was at his absolute zenith of popularity, his image and assorted promotional media was largely being curated by Sega of America and Sega of Europe; while Sonic certainly had an audience in his native land in the 1990s, he was never quite the hit in Japan that he wound up being in the west, for an assortment of reasons. As a kid, six years old when Sonic hit the US scene, I was in the target demo for Sega, and I was all in on the series, the cartoons, eventually the comic, etc., and I went from initially feeling "there's not enough from the games in the show/comics!" and quickly changed to "I want more from the show/comics in the games!", or at least playing the games and imagining how the different levels and situations could fit into the show's depiction of Mobius.

This worked in that era because, well...Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, Link, you name 'em, back in those old days their games were built around gameplay first, second, and third, with consistent lore, storylines, and characters being way down the list of priorities, which made perfect sense given the hardware limitations of the time and the fact the games weren't designed with story-heavy sequels in mind. They got more dialog or whatever as the 16 bit era went on, but again, not much in the way of fleshed out storytelling, e.g. I don't think Nintendo designed Yoshi's Island as a way of saying "here's the TRUE origin of the Mario Brothers!"

What this meant, though, was that players could project whatever they wanted to onto the game characters in terms of personality, attitude, demeanor, voice, etc.; outside of a few basic features, they were tabula rasae for the players' imaginations. If you wanted your own take on them, great! If you liked aspects of how they appeared in cartoons or promotional art, great! All was fair game. It still sticks out to me nowadays how Mega Man X has one line of dialog in his entire debut game, and it's really for this precise reason.

That really began to change as we got into the 3D era; as the 16 bit RPGs started to show the storytelling chops that gaming could offer, the 3D platforms began showing a greater interest in taking advantage of having voice acting, cut scenes, etc. that allowed games to become more cinematic. This obviously brought about great successes like Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII, but for those older characters from the 8 and 16 bit era? A lot of them failed to make the transition well, precisely because now they needed consistent personalities, voices, motivations, etc. to fit in with the new era.

Nintendo has been the master of avoiding this problem. Mario remains mute outside of a random "yahoo!" or "let's-a go" because Nintendo never wants to feel constrained in what they can have Mario do, or what setting they can drop him into. Link remains mute because his very name is meant to imply that he is the link between the player and the world of Hyrule, not a standalone character of his own. This allows Nintendo to make a wide array of titles in each series, allowing Mario to be paper, or Link to be a cartoon, or whatever else they can think of, and none of it clashes with material that came before or that will come after.

But Sega? Sega dove headfirst into giving Sonic cinematic 3D games; fully voiced, filled with convoluted plots, and more and more and more characters. In the process they streamlined most Sonic media under Sega of Japan's control, gradually erasing the distinct Sonic media that had helped make him such a hit in Europe and the Americas. Now, you had to accept Sega of Japan's vision for Sonic and his world, which has been, uh...not great over the years, at least to me. They want to put Sonic into epic feeling stories, but they don't want him to face real character-driven challenges or to ever evolve, so none of it really ends up meaning anything; combine that with often lackluster gameplay in the 3D titles and you've got a real problem, it all feels empty.

And yeah, this is where Sally and the Freedom Fighters, plus the "despotic conquerer" Robotnik backstory, could play a huge role in Sonic storytelling; it forces Sonic into a different situation, it gives Sonic other characters to play off of, it presents Sonic with challenges that might force him to grow as a character, etc.

Should that be every Sonic game? Nah; again, if Mario can have a line of games where he's polygonal, another where he's paper, another where he's 2D, and many where he plays random sports, then Sonic can have all of that, too. But that's the point: go ahead and make the games where Sonic is a carefree figure, but why not also give him the games where you can explore other stories, alternate worlds, different interpretations of the characters and settings, etc.? It's video games, the possibilities are limitless, and any talk of "but what about the canon?" can go directly where it belongs, in the "who gives a shit?" trash pile.

And in the end, Sally really has been the key figure in that alternate take on Sonic. Part of what made the cartoon so memorable for so many people was how genuine the chemistry was between the two, and I dig all the reasons the video presents on that: her being a genuinely positive depiction of a female lead in a property aimed at young boys (some clear parallels between her and Dot Matrix in ReBoot, given how the two shows came out around the same time), her and Sonic's relationship being depicted as a healthy one despite their clear personality differences, etc. Give talented people who grew up with these characters and that version of Mobius a chance to make a game or other kind of story involving them, and you'll likely get something pretty great.

Side note to end this rambling narrative: this video did convince me to at least give some credit to Ian Flynn, whose stories never had huge appeal to me when I first saw them...granted, I first saw them as a grown-ass man taking an occasional peek at a kids' comic he had nostalgic memories of, so I wasn't the book's target, but still; much as I'd give the guy some grief for turning too many Sonic stories into what felt like Dragon Ball Z style power creep fights, I give him some credit for trying to take such a sprawling Sonic landscape (games, shows, comics, etc.) and streamline it into something more consistent in tone and style after years of the comic bouncing around a bit. I'll always give its earlier Penders/Bollers era credit for being incredibly ambitious for a series based on a loose game adaptation, but it often risked tonally running off the rails due to that. Plus...Flynn was/is a legit Sonic/Sally fan, so I can't rag on him too much.

[BorneAgain]

Sept 20, 2020 14:37:44 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Sept 20, 2020 9:42:05 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

Only somewhat related but one of the better gaming/Sonic YouTubers did a pretty solid retrospective on Sally Acorn why she's so meaningful to much of the fanbase:



For those aren't familiar with her, its a good explanation of her role and even those that were Archie fans its still an effective look back on her, including post-reboot.

What this meant, though, was that players could project whatever they wanted to onto the game characters in terms of personality, attitude, demeanor, voice, etc.; outside of a few basic features, they were tabula rasae for the players' imaginations. If you wanted your own take on them, great! If you liked aspects of how they appeared in cartoons or promotional art, great! All was fair game. It still sticks out to me nowadays how Mega Man X has one line of dialog in his entire debut game, and it's really for this precise reason.

That really began to change as we got into the 3D era; as the 16 bit RPGs started to show the storytelling chops that gaming could offer, the 3D platforms began showing a greater interest in taking advantage of having voice acting, cut scenes, etc. that allowed games to become more cinematic. This obviously brought about great successes like Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII, but for those older characters from the 8 and 16 bit era? A lot of them failed to make the transition well, precisely because now they needed consistent personalities, voices, motivations, etc. to fit in with the new era.

But Sega? Sega dove headfirst into giving Sonic cinematic 3D games; fully voiced, filled with convoluted plots, and more and more and more characters. In the process they streamlined most Sonic media under Sega of Japan's control, gradually erasing the distinct Sonic media that had helped make him such a hit in Europe and the Americas. Now, you had to accept Sega of Japan's vision for Sonic and his world, which has been, uh...not great over the years, at least to me. They want to put Sonic into epic feeling stories, but they don't want him to face real character-driven challenges or to ever evolve, so none of it really ends up meaning anything; combine that with often lackluster gameplay in the 3D titles and you've got a real problem, it all feels empty.

And yeah, this is where Sally and the Freedom Fighters, plus the "despotic conquerer" Robotnik backstory, could play a huge role in Sonic storytelling; it forces Sonic into a different situation, it gives Sonic other characters to play off of, it presents Sonic with challenges that might force him to grow as a character, etc.

And in the end, Sally really has been the key figure in that alternate take on Sonic. Part of what made the cartoon so memorable for so many people was how genuine the chemistry was between the two, and I dig all the reasons the video presents on that: her being a genuinely positive depiction of a female lead in a property aimed at young boys (some clear parallels between her and Dot Matrix in ReBoot, given how the two shows came out around the same time), her and Sonic's relationship being depicted as a healthy one despite their clear personality differences, etc. Give talented people who grew up with these characters and that version of Mobius a chance to make a game or other kind of story involving them, and you'll likely get something pretty great.

I think one of the reasons Sally did work and was so fundamentally important to a lot of the fanbase is ironically the same rationale as to why the video game canon after 98 never really incorporated her; in a lot of ways she compliments the Western characterization of Sonic more than the Japanese one.

Its an oversimplification obviously, but I don't think its a coincidence that her emergence with SatAM and later the Archie series was that the American depiction of the blue blur was one not the best fit for leadership or level headed strategist. This was a Sonic more defined by a "move fast, think later" attitude and a confidence that bordered on cockiness a lot of the time. In that sense Sally's creation as his inverse, the one who could be the more focused head of the freedom fighters and be a counterweight against his more impulsive mindset? It made sense, especially for a more dramatic and character driven story like a continual comic line.

Its also why the placement of certain things from later games could be tricky, because much of the setting, the dynamic of the Freedom Fighters, and long term arcs were largely created to fit this particular take on Sonic. Most of them eventually worked and in a lot of ways the comic was the bridge between two different eras of Sonic in its later existence; even popular characters like Shadow or Rouge being heavily featured but still within the context that it was their stories within the world of Archie.

In regards to the games proper though, the expansion of the Japanese canon to all regions starting with SA1 complicated things greatly. Beyond the mindset from Sega that pulling things from the American comic wasn't likely practical, the Eastern take on Sonic was one that portrayed him as more earnest much of the time and more defined by his heroic traits. That certainly appealed to a lot of fans (see the fandom around the Adventure through Unleashed era) but also makes the potential part a Sally Acorn could play a bit more unnecessary.

This was a Sonic that could be a leader and was one not interested in romance, so her most critical roles as both a counterpart to him and love interest were essentially gone. Moreover, Amy Rose as the (occasional) obsessive fangirl for the heroic but uninterested Sonic could fit because the complimentary contrast between the two was much more obvious. He'll always rescue her, but she'll always be chasing him. That's not even getting into various other characters introduced (humans included) that had the focus of the dramatic weight on them, leaving even less room for Sally.

I think she definitely could work in the games, but given the inconsistent way the main character himself is depicted, her inclusion would work best alongside a Sonic and company that would benefit from her presence in the story and dynamic long term.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

One thing I'll add about Sally's following: yeah, she's got a lot of appeal to the furry fandom, as any popular anthro character does, but it isn't all "oh, we just like how this character looks." She's not Minerva Mink- if she didn't have the kick-ass personality or the intriguing elements she added to Sonic's lore, she wouldn't have taken off in popularity to begin with.

Around the time the movie came out, I also reviewed a Sonic fan-comic ( www.freakinawesomenetwork.net/2020/02/clash-of-the-webcomics-archie-sonic-online-pulls-no-punches-with-fast-video-game-influenced-action/ ) that has an alternate ending to Ian Flynn's Mecha-Sally arc, and I'd argue it's executed better than how the Archie book did it. I do enjoy Ian's stuff usually, but I'll admit he does get too fight-happy in his stories sometimes. Whereas the official story only covered it in one page before jumping to the next conflict, here there's a lot more time spent on her dwelling on her actions while being controlled by Robotnik (the art being really good also helps).

[thechase]

Sept 21, 2020 6:04:20 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

One thing I'll add about Sally's following: yeah, she's got a lot of appeal to the furry fandom, as any popular anthro character does, but it isn't all "oh, we just like how this character looks." She's not Minerva Mink- if she didn't have the kick-ass personality or the intriguing elements she added to Sonic's lore, she wouldn't have taken off in popularity to begin with.

Around the time the movie came out, I also reviewed a Sonic fan-comic ( www.freakinawesomenetwork.net/2020/02/clash-of-the-webcomics-archie-sonic-online-pulls-no-punches-with-fast-video-game-influenced-action/ ) that has an alternate ending to Ian Flynn's Mecha-Sally arc, and I'd argue it's executed better than how the Archie book did it. I do enjoy Ian's stuff usually, but I'll admit he does get too fight-happy in his stories sometimes. Whereas the official story only covered it in one page before jumping to the next conflict, here there's a lot more time spent on her dwelling on her actions while being controlled by Robotnik (the art being really good also helps).

I appreciate you reviewing the Archie continuation, it's earned it, the dedication to the writing and the artwork from those involved is above and beyond what these fan works often result in.

Do you follow the Fleetway Sonic comics? They have an online continuity that carries on where the UK Sonic title ended, it's been going steady since 2004.

[ronin705]

You can count me in the camp that fell off the fandom with sa1 not including freedom fighter stuff. And admittedly, Sally was fierce warrior woman that had my child heart lol

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

Sept 21, 2020 10:39:45 GMT -5 thechase said:

Sept 21, 2020 6:04:20 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

One thing I'll add about Sally's following: yeah, she's got a lot of appeal to the furry fandom, as any popular anthro character does, but it isn't all "oh, we just like how this character looks." She's not Minerva Mink- if she didn't have the kick-ass personality or the intriguing elements she added to Sonic's lore, she wouldn't have taken off in popularity to begin with.

Around the time the movie came out, I also reviewed a Sonic fan-comic ( www.freakinawesomenetwork.net/2020/02/clash-of-the-webcomics-archie-sonic-online-pulls-no-punches-with-fast-video-game-influenced-action/ ) that has an alternate ending to Ian Flynn's Mecha-Sally arc, and I'd argue it's executed better than how the Archie book did it. I do enjoy Ian's stuff usually, but I'll admit he does get too fight-happy in his stories sometimes. Whereas the official story only covered it in one page before jumping to the next conflict, here there's a lot more time spent on her dwelling on her actions while being controlled by Robotnik (the art being really good also helps).

I appreciate you reviewing the Archie continuation, it's earned it, the dedication to the writing and the artwork from those involved is above and beyond what these fan works often result in.

Do you follow the Fleetway Sonic comics? They have an online continuity that carries on where the UK Sonic title ended, it's been going steady since 2004.

I know *of* the Fleetway Sonic, but I haven't extensively read through it. If I recall, UK's Golden Sonic is out of his mind, right?