Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,589
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Post by Bo Rida on Jan 22, 2021 18:22:32 GMT -5
Times change, you're never going to have the kayfabe style investment or attitude era style crowds these days (unless post covid people get caught up in the moment more). The sketchyness of days past doesn't fly, see Lars or V.Dream or many of wwe's recent actions. In WWE you won't get those spontaneous moments not magic on the mic.
That said I see no reason good wrestling can't take it's place in pop culture back if they can figure out how to fit into it. Attractive, fit, young people travelling the world and being really good at something (most hit some of those) making endless content? Should be easy.
Screwing with their twitch streaming or whatever doesn't do that. Hanging onto backstage culture 30 years old doesn't do that, using 20 year old attitude era tropes doesn't do that.
Personally I think they were onto something with Breaking Ground, weave some segments like that into the main shows.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 19:44:23 GMT -5
Who is cancelling him here? Cancel culture isn't just mild criticism. I’m seeing people on here try to say Undertaker is totally up for people being stabbed to death in the shower. Like, at what point during the podcast indicated that’s what he was up for? Please quote it. I mean that's a serious allegation, I'm sure you have evidence.
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Post by Starshine on Jan 22, 2021 19:46:16 GMT -5
People must be really bored from sitting at home during this pandemic to be analysing a 55 year old man’s throwaway comment about preferring things when he was younger to the point where a full blown character assassination is taking place. If that’s how you want to see things, then more power to you. But I find it pretty funny to see cancel culture doing its thing again. Cancel culture doesn't exist, dude.
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Post by Famous Rocking Chimes on Jan 22, 2021 19:47:16 GMT -5
I’m seeing people on here try to say Undertaker is totally up for people being stabbed to death in the shower. Like, at what point during the podcast indicated that’s what he was up for? Please quote it. I mean that's a serious allegation, I'm sure you have evidence. I’ve read through the entire thread again just to see if I had actually seen what I thought I had. I didn’t see anything to that effect. I’m sorry. That was a serious allegation like you said, and in hindsight I should’ve been more careful to come out with a post like that.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jan 22, 2021 19:48:03 GMT -5
Who is cancelling him here? Cancel culture isn't just mild criticism. I’m seeing people on here try to say Undertaker is totally up for people being stabbed to death in the shower. Like, at what point during the podcast indicated that’s what he was up for? I mean I kinda mentioned getting stabbed but I wasn't implying he wanted it. I totally got his point even and know he was just using an extreme example rather than actually encouraging violence.
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Post by eJm on Jan 22, 2021 19:48:56 GMT -5
Please quote it. I mean that's a serious allegation, I'm sure you have evidence. I’ve read through the entire thread again just to see if I had actually seen what I thought I had. I didn’t see anything to that effect. I’m sorry. That was a serious allegation like you said, and in hindsight I should’ve been more careful to come out with a post like that. These things can happen and not enough people admit that. I’m deleting my previous post as a fair gesture.
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Post by Famous Rocking Chimes on Jan 22, 2021 19:51:53 GMT -5
I’ve read through the entire thread again just to see if I had actually seen what I thought I had. I didn’t see anything to that effect. I’m sorry. That was a serious allegation like you said, and in hindsight I should’ve been more careful to come out with a post like that. These things can happen and not enough people admit that. I’m deleting my previous post as a fair gesture. I’ll delete my post in the same way. Again, apologies to the board for hitting out with a statement like that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 19:53:53 GMT -5
Please quote it. I mean that's a serious allegation, I'm sure you have evidence. I’ve read through the entire thread again just to see if I had actually seen what I thought I had. I didn’t see anything to that effect. I’m sorry. That was a serious allegation like you said, and in hindsight I should’ve been more careful to come out with a post like that. Dont apologise to me. Appreciate you acknowledging you were wrong. It's ok.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 19:56:38 GMT -5
Truth is a lot of guys from Takers day aren't that smart, usually drop out of college or attend for the sports and do a useless major and enter the wrestling business when they've got little life experience and never leave. It's why they wrestle long after they should have retired, they can't do anything else and have made a lot of bad financial decisions over the years. I wouldn't attribute amorality to what is usually naivety. Whilst the boomers have enjoyed certain privileges that others didn't one handicap they face is that the post war education system in most western countries was a very experimental system with a lot of problems and the chickens are coming home to roost in many different ways as the news tells us on a daily basis.
Re generational changes, I wouldn't be surprised if the video game lads complain when they hang up their trunks that the locker room is filled with too many macho, competitive angry young men types, these things tend to go in cycles.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 20:09:54 GMT -5
I really don't see any correlation between guys not being surly and mean and product/viewership trends.
Like, the early 90s were chock-full of those guys and one of the 'toughest' played a racecar driver and ratings were in the toilet.
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Post by BatPunk on Jan 22, 2021 20:26:55 GMT -5
Wow. This has been an absolute rollercoaster of a thread.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,394
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Post by markymark on Jan 22, 2021 20:32:22 GMT -5
If Taker thinks the WWE locker room isn't manly enough, wait until he sees that video of Top Flight, Pillman Jr, Starks and co goofing off and selling for Brodie Jr. His head will explode. Who couldve thought Taker would turn out to be a worse person than Jericho(who seemed enjoying seeing TF playing with Brodie jr) Back to the Taker topic, did he ruin his legacy as bad as Hogan?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 22, 2021 20:43:38 GMT -5
If Taker thinks the WWE locker room isn't manly enough, wait until he sees that video of Top Flight, Pillman Jr, Starks and co goofing off and selling for Brodie Jr. His head will explode. Who couldve thought Taker would turn out to be a worse person than Jericho(who seemed enjoying seeing TF playing with Brodie jr) Back to the Taker topic, did he ruin his legacy as bad as Hogan? Takers rep is fine, he was respected by the fanbase, but not a beloved childhood hero to the extent Hogan was. Fans have known what sort of a person Taker is for a long time, some will be okay with that, others won't, Taker has retired so it won't change much whatever people think.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,294
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Post by Fade on Jan 22, 2021 22:20:45 GMT -5
Truth is a lot of guys from Takers day aren't that smart, usually drop out of college or attend for the sports and do a useless major and enter the wrestling business when they've got little life experience and never leave. It's why they wrestle long after they should have retired, they can't do anything else and have made a lot of bad financial decisions over the years. I wouldn't attribute amorality to what is usually naivety. Whilst the boomers have enjoyed certain privileges that others didn't one handicap they face is that the post war education system in most western countries was a very experimental system with a lot of problems and the chickens are coming home to roost in many different ways as the news tells us on a daily basis. Re generational changes, I wouldn't be surprised if the video game lads complain when they hang up their trunks that the locker room is filled with too many macho, competitive angry young men types, these things tend to go in cycles.Oh, absolutely. Put money on it. 20 years from now, the younger-ish guys will be railing against whatever culture the youth have. And the youth will lash right back out at today’s stars. Vicious cycle as has been mentioned before. If Taker thinks the WWE locker room isn't manly enough, wait until he sees that video of Top Flight, Pillman Jr, Starks and co goofing off and selling for Brodie Jr. His head will explode. Who couldve thought Taker would turn out to be a worse person than Jericho(who seemed enjoying seeing TF playing with Brodie jr) Back to the Taker topic, did he ruin his legacy as bad as Hogan?Man, I really don’t think that’s a fair comparison to make.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 23:19:07 GMT -5
I've loved Taker since childhood, but some of his opinions are dumb. He's certainly entitled to those opinions and to express them, but this is pretty much why I don't pay attention to the lives of the people whose work I enjoy anymore. Just not healthy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 23:47:23 GMT -5
I won't cosign the "knife" stuff that Taker was talking about, but I think there is definitely something about embracing nerd culture that has hurt wrestling's (WWE's) mainstream marketability. You have wrestlers today who are obsessed with video games, and then what does the in ring action resemble? Most times, a video game. This is the era of marks who trained to become wrestlers, and have completely gone away from what made wrestling cool to begin with. That bleeds into the product. One part of the appeal of wrestling has always been the superhero aspect of it. I never watched Hogan when I was a kid and thought "man I am just like him". It was more "I want to be like him". Same with Rock, Austin, Taker, and others. If I know that all the talent play video games (for example), and bring that nerd culture into their on screen personas, then they become so relatable that it's almost a turn off. UFC gives off the same type of vibe as the Attitude Era/MNW did. It's cool for young people to get into it and talk about it. What Taker brings up is a big reason why the WWE has become more isolated. They do care too much about looks and non important stuff. Also, I don't mean "nerd culture" as an insult. It is what it is. It has a market and it's cool for people to consider themselves in that group. I just don't think it works in a wrestling context, and the numbers in the last decade prove it. There is a reason why legends shows pop ratings. The audience is older, and the current product doesn't appeal to younger people outside of its niche. Roman's current character is the closest thing to a cool badass character the company has developed in years, possibly a decade (since Punk's pipe bomb). I see Roman and he's so unrelatable that he becomes cool to get behind. You want to have his confidence and swag. That's sorely missing today. Nobody save for New Day has really brought any overt character elements of their real life interests that strongly to the forefront, and WWE is actively not embracing nerd culture and run by someone who actively balks at it at any turn. What the decade of ratings shows is a glut of creative and on-screen issues that the wrestlers have minimal control over, much the same way that the matches are put together by agents, not by the gaming, prettiness-obsessed wrestlers. It's still ultimately a weird critique on masculinity wrapped up in some weird explanation to try and make it more palatable. And it's also flawed, because if WWE did have some overriding issue of wrestlers' geeky interests making them so relatable that they couldn't be idealized or aspirational and instead impenetrably down to earth dudes everyone saw themselves in, WWE would be the biggest media empire in the world. Younger generations are all the f*** about relatability. All those alternative new media sources siphoning away the younger demographics? Built on heaps and heaps of relatability, accessibility, and authenticity, to the point where careers have been rocked by mere accusations someone isn't really presenting a genuine face because the potential that has to hurt the entire image people have of them is a powerful one. WWE would be rolling in it right now if that was the prevailing issue with the show, and it would in fact be the smartest business decision WWE could make at the current moment. You bring up UFC but where in this does top star Israel Adesanya, a man whose ring name is a callout to Avatar and reps his love of anime--complete with a cartoon girl tattooed on his forearm--fit into this issue? Compared to say AJ Styles, who in interviews praises Bulletstorm of all games, but who on-screen never really expresses any of that? It's also the general tone of the show. Some of it can be blamed on bad writing, but you can definitely see a lot of acts that try to cosplay comic book characters, or horror villains, video game characters, or things of that nature. New Day is the one act that does it unapologetically, but it's sprinkled into a lot of places. I'm not saying talent can't take part of their characters from those genres, but there still has to be a level of authenticity when playing those characters, otherwise it will come off as really good looking people playing a role on TV. Fans can see through BS. I disagree about relatability when it comes to wrestling. It works in other places sure, but not in wrestling. It never has. At least not during any successful period. In the 80's you had Hogan, Andre, Savage, Warrior, Flair, Road Warriors, and so on. In the 90's it was Austin, Rock, Undertaker, NWO, Goldberg, and others. This has always been a larger than life genre. You ideally want the talent to not be relatable, but be an image that the audiences can vicariously live through. Maybe you related to Austin being fired, but everything else was wishing you could be like Austin. If the talent are too relatable, it becomes difficult to appeal to a wider audience. I'm not saying the backstage has to be like it was in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. But it wouldn't hurt to get talent that have an edge to them that can translate to the screen. That is sorely lacking right now. There is a reason why Brock is so believable in his role. It's not just because of his size.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,796
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Post by hassanchop on Jan 23, 2021 0:56:41 GMT -5
Possibly another reason there's more pretty?
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Jan 23, 2021 1:38:22 GMT -5
Of course everyone is concerned with looking good, shit wasn't in HD back in the day.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,212
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 23, 2021 1:44:20 GMT -5
"The PG Era Sux, like this if you miss the Attitude Era and want it back!!1!" - TheUnderTaker666
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,129
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 23, 2021 2:19:43 GMT -5
If Taker thinks the WWE locker room isn't manly enough, wait until he sees that video of Top Flight, Pillman Jr, Starks and co goofing off and selling for Brodie Jr. His head will explode. Back to the Taker topic, did he ruin his legacy as bad as Hogan? Hogan screwed up worse, honestly. For a lot of people, it was dropping the N-bomb, which was very bad. For others, the big thing was the context in which he said it, which boiled down to basically, "I don't want black people in my bloodline", which is like honestly a hundred times worse.
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