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Post by James Fabiano on Feb 10, 2021 15:58:18 GMT -5
I'm confused, why are people dunking on Ray Fisher when Charisma has shown support for him? Honestly I think the controversy about the Snyder Cut has poisoned pretty much all the discourse related to Justice League, Fisher included. The fact that some people's biggest lament from this will be that pro-Snyder people will potentially gain ground tells you how toxic it's gotten. I can't speak to the veracity of the guy's claims but what Carpenter's said along with Whedon's ex wife at the very least suggests that dubious behavior from Joss is not out of the question. I said this too earlier in the thread, as I can see Snyderists being all, "See? The guy we don't like is a deviant! We are nice guys after all, no?"
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mattperiolat
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Post by mattperiolat on Feb 10, 2021 15:58:41 GMT -5
Honestly, the person I’d like to hear from (even with SMG and Trachenberg basically being a kiss of death) is Eliza Dusku. I heard something very fundamentally creepy went on there, just not sure if rumor from Joss’s ex or from Eliza herself.
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Post by thechase on Feb 10, 2021 16:03:42 GMT -5
I'm wondering how much of Whedon's behaviour to others contributed to Nicolas Brendan's public meltdowns
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Feb 10, 2021 16:04:46 GMT -5
Shouldn't be about the Snyder Cult at all, drown out the noise as they try to make it about themselves.
More importantly, f*** Joss Whedon, it's time for his career to be done.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Feb 10, 2021 16:15:00 GMT -5
This has one of the biggest open secrets in Hollywood.
Whedon is the dirt worst stereotype of a male “feminist” come to life. Says all the right things, does all the wrong things.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Feb 10, 2021 16:16:47 GMT -5
I'm confused, why are people dunking on Ray Fisher when Charisma has shown support for him? Her own statement doesn't exactly strengthen Fisher's case. He's made a ton of vague claims and boasts of dozens of people coming forward to back him up in the subsequent investigation, yet this investigation appears to be dragging up everybody who's ever had a grievance with Whedon rather people who can verify what did or did not go down on the Justice League set. Whedon's an egomaniacal piece of shit, this hasn't been in doubt for over a decade, but when calling the public to hold people accountable for their actions you have to know what you're holding them accountable for. Victimising Charisma Carpenter and firing her for getting pregnant? Absolutely hold him accountable. Nebulous accusations of abuse from a guy who admits he fought against saying his character's innocuous one-word catchphrase because he felt it was a racist caricature? Gonna need a little more to go on before I decide the line between asshole and abuser was crossed. I realize everyone likes dunking on Ray Fisher but, for me, Whedon doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt. Why would he at this point?
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Post by Cyno on Feb 10, 2021 16:17:20 GMT -5
Whedon used the shield of being a "feminist" to deflect against his own misogyny. It's time to stop calling him one because he never was in a meaningful way.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Feb 10, 2021 16:23:28 GMT -5
Time for Whedon and Bryan Singer to put on an ice floe and pushed out to sea.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Feb 10, 2021 16:28:06 GMT -5
So obviously Rownling, Whedon and Linehan are in the "Looked progressive in the 90s but turned out to be toxic" camp, wonder who else is joining them
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 10, 2021 16:37:48 GMT -5
I realize everyone likes dunking on Ray Fisher but, for me, Whedon never got the benefit of the doubt for me. Why would he at this point? I don't doubt Whedon was a raging asshole on Justice League, and I can definitely believe the possibility that he was unprofessional, but Fisher's story has been far too vague for far too long, with almost nobody who worked on that set backing him up. Even Jason Momoa's support only amounted to discrediting the Frosty the Snowman movie thing. Does Whedon deserve the benefit of the doubt? Not really, but that still doesn't disguise how flimsy the case Fisher has presented to the public is.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Feb 10, 2021 17:33:06 GMT -5
Whedon got the benefit of the doubt for so long because he was less bad than many of his peers when it came to his on screen portrayals of female leads, but by no means was he good. His horrible treatment of Charisma Carpenter and lousy behavour have been known for years, but he's gotten a pass because he's well connected and his shows are have loyal fanbases who either don't know, or are happy to look the other way.
Whedon's probably done as a big budget director at this point given how all his skeletons are coming tumbling out of the closet and none of his stars are willing to back him up, but he'll issue an insincere apology at some point so he'll keep on getting TV projects and having scripts made, because Hollywood will be Hollywood, and people remember Buffy and Firefly, and don't care how the sausage was made.
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Post by DSR on Feb 10, 2021 17:52:29 GMT -5
I assumed this was already brought to light back when his wife came out about his cheating and he walked away from the Batgirl movie. I was actually surprised to see he was working on something that he then walked away from when Ray Fisher came out with his abuse allegations.
At any rate, f*** Joss Whedon. I'm glad Charisma spoke up about him.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Feb 10, 2021 17:55:08 GMT -5
Even if you disagree with Ray Fisher he did open up this floodgates and should be commended for it. Im on his side now that mire people are coming out validating his claims. Its pretty obvious if he says what happened he could be sued and he wants to avoid that, I think
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 10, 2021 17:55:57 GMT -5
So obviously Rownling, Whedon and Linehan are in the "Looked progressive in the 90s but turned out to be toxic" camp, wonder who else is joining them While I don't know if anyone would have called him a progressive or anything, John Cleese has definitely been on the good will burning tour himself.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 10, 2021 17:58:05 GMT -5
It really sucks because interviews at the time really gave the impression that the cast enjoyed themselves. Which I guess can still be true, but it sucks if there was a looming toxicity from the man that preached the opposite the whole time. Some of the cast were close, like Sarah Michelle Gellar still seems to socialize with Trachtenberg and Hannigan, Seth Green keeps up with some of them, and Hannigan married one of her costars. Doesn't seem like any of them were chummy with Whedon, though, shocker of shocks.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 10, 2021 19:10:09 GMT -5
This was relatively well known I thought.
It was brought up when Fisher started making his claims.
Maybe not the extent but the very least the revenge for getting pregnant. After tanking her character on the show.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Feb 10, 2021 19:22:12 GMT -5
I just remember fans always shitting on SMG for being "distant" about her role as Buffy, now it's apparent there was probably good reason.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 10, 2021 19:23:28 GMT -5
This was relatively well known I thought. It was brought up when Fisher started making his claims. Maybe not the extent but the very least the revenge for getting pregnant. After tanking her character on the show. Yeah, it was pretty well documented from a third person perspective, but up until today the most Carpenter had commented on it was that she and Joss had made their peace. Evidently this was not the case.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Feb 10, 2021 19:26:44 GMT -5
Booyah.
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Post by King Boo on Feb 10, 2021 19:42:28 GMT -5
I swear I remember hearing that the reason SMG wanted to leave Buffy was because of Whedon; that she couldn't stand him anymore. This was ages ago, so I wouldn't even know where to begin to verify it, but it certainly lines up with everything we've learned since.
The stuff with Charisma Carpenter has been long known, and is total bullshit, but I'll never tire of it being spoken about. I love Buffy and Angel, but Joss Whedon can kick rocks until the end of time.
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