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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 15:40:16 GMT -5
I can't just be wrong, no, I have to be drawing up a conspiracy!
I've been on internet wrestling forums since about, 2003 or so. I don't remember nearly as much discussion about it in the past. I went looking for talk of demos in some random news about ratings from pre 2018 and I found it very difficult to find. It was CERTAINLY difficult to find pre-2015.
Edit: Also, my claim is not that "demos don't matter." My claim is "demos didn't used to be discussed among wrestling fans nearly this much until they became a metric to hype up AEW." So telling me about past incidents with demos screwing up shows you like doesn't mean anything to me. I know demographics are a thing.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 13, 2021 15:42:04 GMT -5
I can say as an Observer subscriber that Dave has focused on demo numbers for a long time and they have mattered in the industry for decades. And he gives credit across the board. There have been countless times on Observer Radio where Bryan mentions WWE was down overall and Dave will chime in saying they were up in the demo and #1 for the night in 18-49. Even if it doesn't mater to you (which is totally fine), he applies it equally. To say that people focus on those numbers because Dave knows people in AEW when he has sources everywhere is a narrative that I really hope goes away. Dave praises WWE's numbers when they do well and calls AEW's numbers disappointing when they struggle. And even if people used to talk more about overall numbers, that doesn't mean the goalposts have moved to play favorites. It could for some. But others might have learned more about TV and decided to focus on that number instead. I think we should try to assume good faith more often when it comes to these arguments. And above all else, no one says you need to care about the ratings! We can compare shows based on their quality and not on the numbers they produce. Lord knows most of don't think RAW has been the best wrestling show in the world for the past decade despite what the ratings say. They're useful for business analysis but people can ignore them as they see fit. Some of my favourites shows as a teenager got canceled because it got the wrong demo,even if viewership was good. The only reason didnt speak about it when it came to WWE is because well..it didnt matter that much, they had nothing to compare to or worry about. I'm still bitter about Young Justice getting cancelled by CN because of that.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 13, 2021 15:43:33 GMT -5
Some of my favourites shows as a teenager got canceled because it got the wrong demo,even if viewership was good. The only reason didnt speak about it when it came to WWE is because well..it didnt matter that much, they had nothing to compare to or worry about. I'm still bitter about Young Justice getting cancelled by CN because of that. My personal one is Mega XLR, such a good show.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 13, 2021 15:43:36 GMT -5
I can't just be wrong, no, I have to be drawing up a conspiracy! I've been on internet wrestling forums since about, 2003 or so. I don't remember nearly as much discussion about it in the past. I went looking for talk of demos in some random news about ratings from pre 2018 and I found it very difficult to find. It was CERTAINLY difficult to find pre-2015. This is exactly the kind of self-victimizing pity party I was talking about a couple of posts ago.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 15:44:52 GMT -5
I can't just be wrong, no, I have to be drawing up a conspiracy! I've been on internet wrestling forums since about, 2003 or so. I don't remember nearly as much discussion about it in the past. I went looking for talk of demos in some random news about ratings from pre 2018 and I found it very difficult to find. It was CERTAINLY difficult to find pre-2015. This is exactly the kind of self-victimizing pity party I was talking about a couple of posts ago. The conspiracy thing was a direct response to another user who said "the conspiracy theories have come to this thread." They've since edited their post. I would appreciate if you would not take personal shots at me.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 13, 2021 15:45:59 GMT -5
I can't just be wrong, no, I have to be drawing up a conspiracy! I've been on internet wrestling forums since about, 2003 or so. I don't remember nearly as much discussion about it in the past. I went looking for talk of demos in some random news about ratings from pre 2018 and I found it very difficult to find. It was CERTAINLY difficult to find pre-2015. Edit: Also, my claim is not that "demos don't matter." My claim is "demos didn't used to be discussed among wrestling fans nearly this much until they became a metric to hype up AEW." So telling me about past incidents with demos screwing up shows you like doesn't mean anything to me. I know demographics are a thing. hey if it matters I realized I went to far and removed it from my post,probably while you were typing. it was more due to the part "oh,they are friends with Meltzer,so now it matters" ,which yeh at least a stretch and often passed around as fact,but hey,it was too far and I removed it.
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 13, 2021 15:47:44 GMT -5
AEW has this big amazing roster yet how they book their storylines and structure their shows and matches. I feel like were going to have a bunch of missed opportunity threads a few years from now. This is a really interesting one that concerns me too. On the whole it's a plus, protects the top guys and gives more meaning to matches when they do happen if you know you might not see it again but like you say it's going to mean a lot of potential big matches never happen. Plus many never getting the AEW title. Iirc Sammy has only had one high tier singles opponent all year (MJF) which is a waste. It also sucks if someone you like is booked I to an angle you don't like for 6 months and the rotated out.
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Post by Psicofreak667 on Sept 13, 2021 15:47:44 GMT -5
I think the Big Bang Theory is bar none the WORST finisher in all of wrestling period. Kris Stat's opponents have to bearhug her around the waist because there's literally nothing holding them up and if they didn't they'd just slide down to the mat. It looks even more contrived than the tree of woe double stomp.
(I like most everything else about Statlander. Just hate that finisher.)
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 13, 2021 15:48:26 GMT -5
I can't just be wrong, no, I have to be drawing up a conspiracy! I've been on internet wrestling forums since about, 2003 or so. I don't remember nearly as much discussion about it in the past. I went looking for talk of demos in some random news about ratings from pre 2018 and I found it very difficult to find. It was CERTAINLY difficult to find pre-2015. Edit: Also, my claim is not that "demos don't matter." My claim is "demos didn't used to be discussed among wrestling fans nearly this much until they became a metric to hype up AEW." So telling me about past incidents with demos screwing up shows you like doesn't mean anything to me. I know demographics are a thing. There wasn't as much discussion about it in the past because it didn't matter as much to wrasslin fans in the past though Like AEW is the closest competition WWE has had in over 20 years. So when it came to watching their ratings and where they were succeeding over WWE? That's where some people started to pay attention to the demos and what a demo MEANT to a television program. Showing AEW was beginning to win the battles of the Younger Audience while WWE dominated the older established/committed audience That being said this is an unpopular opinion thread and if you just don't care about demos then that's perfectly fine. But I also think there's a reason that they weren't talked about until AEW became a thing... and that's because AEW's rise has made people look at and understand ratings in new lights
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 15:48:45 GMT -5
This threads going to go off the rails and the mods should close it. Getting personally snippy about opinions you don't like in an unpopular opinion thread is really stupid.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 13, 2021 15:52:14 GMT -5
I think the Big Bang Theory is bar none the WORST finisher in all of wrestling period. Kris Stat's opponents have to bearhug her around the waist because there's literally nothing holding them up and if they didn't they'd just slide down to the mat. It looks even more contrived than the tree of woe double stomp. (I like most everything else about Statlander. Just hate that finisher.) I always thought Statlander holding her opponents around the thighs as she did was pretty believable in holding the opponent up and dropping them down As for the hugging around the waist that's just how a Tombstone has always looked. It's actually interesting to think about because when it comes to gripping someone for it... gripping under the legs as Statlander does feels like it'd be a better and stronger base than just hugging them upside down...
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 13, 2021 15:53:34 GMT -5
I think the Big Bang Theory is bar none the WORST finisher in all of wrestling period. Kris Stat's opponents have to bearhug her around the waist because there's literally nothing holding them up and if they didn't they'd just slide down to the mat. It looks even more contrived than the tree of woe double stomp. (I like most everything else about Statlander. Just hate that finisher.) Man I get you,so i cant knock it I think the exactly same thing about the Styles Clash and AJ Styles,one of the best wrestlers in the world, but man do i think the Styles Clash looks contrived and weak.So I get it.I do think the hugging part tho is more due to safety, so they dont get hit in the wrong way.
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Post by chronocross on Sept 13, 2021 15:54:53 GMT -5
I hated Kenny Omega's cleaner entrance with the women with brooms, it just felt wrong to me. While I support all the open forbidden doors by and large, if closing one or two of them meant getting rid of the Good Brothers, I'd give it serious consideration. They're talented, but kind of remind me of Beavis and Butthead. Nyla Rose needs a face turn so she can display her sense of humour. They are already teasing of dumping the Good Brothers. The Impact partnership was a mistake for AEW more than Impact itself. Maybe I was reading into it too much but it felt like there was some dissension when Adam Cole omitted the Good Brothers from his speech on Wednesday. As for the topic, I wouldn't mind seeing a short title reign or two.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 13, 2021 15:58:13 GMT -5
I can't just be wrong, no, I have to be drawing up a conspiracy! I've been on internet wrestling forums since about, 2003 or so. I don't remember nearly as much discussion about it in the past. I went looking for talk of demos in some random news about ratings from pre 2018 and I found it very difficult to find. It was CERTAINLY difficult to find pre-2015. Edit: Also, my claim is not that "demos don't matter." My claim is "demos didn't used to be discussed among wrestling fans nearly this much until they became a metric to hype up AEW." So telling me about past incidents with demos screwing up shows you like doesn't mean anything to me. I know demographics are a thing. There wasn't as much discussion about it in the past because it didn't matter as much to wrasslin fans in the past though Like AEW is the closest competition WWE has had in over 20 years. So when it came to watching their ratings and where they were succeeding over WWE? That's where some people started to pay attention to the demos and what a demo MEANT to a television program. Showing AEW was beginning to win the battles of the Younger Audience while WWE dominated the older established/committed audience That being said this is an unpopular opinion thread and if you just don't care about demos then that's perfectly fine. But I also think there's a reason that they weren't talked about until AEW became a thing... and that's because AEW's rise has made people look at and understand ratings in new lights A lot of wrestling fans also aren't communications or marketing majors or really go into deep dive analysis about the business of television and advertising. They just look at the big numbers.
And demo breakdowns, until sites like Showbuzzdaily started publishing them, were also privileged information from Nielsen that cost a pretty penny. Outside of guys like Meltzer telling you what was up, a lot of wrestling fans simply didn't have access to that info. And yeah, it didn't even matter because WWE was so dominant that they were leading in everything except Monday nights during football season.AEW making things interesting is why things like demo actually matter now in wrestling ratings discussions.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 13, 2021 15:58:25 GMT -5
I hated Kenny Omega's cleaner entrance with the women with brooms, it just felt wrong to me. While I support all the open forbidden doors by and large, if closing one or two of them meant getting rid of the Good Brothers, I'd give it serious consideration. They're talented, but kind of remind me of Beavis and Butthead. Nyla Rose needs a face turn so she can display her sense of humour. They are already teasing of dumping the Good Brothers. The Impact partnership was a mistake for AEW more than Impact itself. I think the Impact Deal has been fine personally. Them getting the Impact title change moment with Christian for the first Rampage paid huge dividends for them imo. I do wish there could be more crossover but who knows. That could still happen.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Sept 13, 2021 16:00:08 GMT -5
I find JR entertaining 95% of the time he messes up and I hope he sticks around for a while.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 13, 2021 16:01:57 GMT -5
I dont know if this would even be "unpopular" but Taz and Excalibur DARK commentary is legitimately some of my favorite commentary in all of wrestling
Tony/Paul/Kingston is beginning to get up there too on Elevation. Fun commentary just makes the show fun too. But on top of that they just know when to make great points about moves or wrestlers and just know how to SELL things. Kingston especially.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 16:06:37 GMT -5
Funny that this is the most civil that discussion has been when discussing AEW downfalls & there was still an underlying tension that resulted in someone leaving
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 13, 2021 16:13:51 GMT -5
Goes back to page one with what Chiral said. There is such a weird air when it comes to discussing not just AEW but even just wrestling in general lately and it's hard to pinpoint the exact cause if it's just not a number of smaller things snowballing into one.
It's such an uneasy sort of tension where it feels like people are either strung out from arguing too much or just waiting for the shoe to drop and threads here to lock.
This threads been surprisingly really nice but it still finds a way to get to this point... it's just weird...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 16:14:12 GMT -5
Funny that this is the most civil that discussion has been when discussing AEW downfalls & there was still an underlying tension that resulted in someone leaving And thats why unpopular opinion threads are dumb.
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