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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 19, 2021 9:11:22 GMT -5
Nielsen is already in the process of revamping their ratings enormously. They will be switching to include an impressions-based ratings system which incorporates all ways in which people consume a show rather than cable only. I believe it’s starting this January. I'm super interested in the effect that that's going to have on pro wrestling ratings. I think that AEW has a bigger streaming and social media footprint than we even suspect. How can AEW be streamed in the States? Besides the TNT app/on demand after it airs. Edit: now that I’m thinking about it, I assume it can be streamed on like YouTube TV and similar services that carry TNT.
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Post by cornettesracket on Oct 19, 2021 9:13:24 GMT -5
Just random thoughts on the overall thing here... I've been having and didn't post but what the hell its 3:30am and I can't sleep it's the perfect time to make a post >_> Let my preface this by saying that I enjoy AEW... I have not really been watching Smackdown or any of the WWE product regularly... and as I stated earlier I watched neither show on Friday and instead saw Danhausen at Create-a-pro in New York... That said... most of what's been posted revolving around the ratings and stuff does feel like goal post moving. The first came out and AEW lost in the overall ratings, and tied for most of the regular demos... the they went slice by slice over the overrun getting similar results except for like one Demographic and called it a victory, something that like... they've never really done before ever? if Tony didn't do the whole "DECLARE VICTORY!" early thing we likely wouldn't have this now either... Hell just from the regular ratings there was good news and should have been enough to just count this week as a positive as they gained viewers, but it's not really enough to justify calling a VICTORY. and let's be real here if the shoe was on the other foot and Vince publicly declared victory a full week before a show and then did the same thing a lot of people would rightfully be calling it out for being petty bullshit. So again It was absolutely good week for Rampage but in my opinion the whole specifics to justify the idea that it was actually a victory seems like they're more trying to convince people that it was, than it actually being one. I assume most western countries have radio ratings and here in Ireland there’s the JNLR ratings which give a general view of the numbers of radio listeners for each station and show and just like you describe it, the amount of goal post shifting is stunning to see. There have many occasions where two radios stations in the same city have claimed to be no1 when that’s not really possible, until you look and see the spitting of hairs that goes on for them to claim they are no1. WWE have and AEW will adapt at massaging numbers to suit their narrative. That’s not a knock on AEW, it’s a reality of being at the level they are at in the business world. And I don’t know if I’m actually in the “key demo” and frankly I don’t care, but I do think it would help wrestling fandom if we stopped obsessing over the ratings so much. It’s not what was important to me as a wrestling fan of nearly thirty years, and it’s not why I watch it now. Yes, I became a wrestling fan by watching WWE because that was what was available in Ireland, but I don’t feel I need to watch it now just because. If I like stuff they do, I’ll say so(like NXT UK) and if I don’t like something I just won’t watch it. I watch wrestling now and have in the past to escape the realities of real life. Thankfully, on this message board unlike Twitter there doesn’t seem to be the hostility from WWE and AEW shills over the ratings. I mean wishing wrestling companies to fail is a fairly low bar for an industry that already has a low bar anyway. Both companies are much more than the owners of the two companies and wishing people lose their jobs just to stick it to one person(either tony khan or vince McMahon) is childish.
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Post by eJm on Oct 19, 2021 9:13:39 GMT -5
I'm super interested in the effect that that's going to have on pro wrestling ratings. I think that AEW has a bigger streaming and social media footprint than we even suspect. How can AEW be streamed in the States? Besides the TNT app/on demand after it airs. YouTube TV still has TNT on it, I believe? Think there are a couple of other services like it but I’m European so I’d have no idea what those are specifically called.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 9:23:07 GMT -5
I'm super interested in the effect that that's going to have on pro wrestling ratings. I think that AEW has a bigger streaming and social media footprint than we even suspect. How can AEW be streamed in the States? Besides the TNT app/on demand after it airs. I'm not as well-versed in Nielsen's rating metrics as you seem to be, so I may be completely off-base, but my understanding was that, as things stand, Nielsen only measures certain streaming services that it has a contract with (like Sling), and only when the streaming is being done on a television (as opposed to a phone, tablet, etc...) So a lot of potential "live" viewership is not entirely captured. Just as two examples - there's a DirecTV "app" that comes with a DirecTV satellite subscription. Completely separate from the new "DirecTV Stream." You can watch the channels that you subscribe to on your phone/tablet on the app "live," but I do not believe that it would count as a live view based upon Nielsen's current metric. There have been multiple occasions where I've been stuck at work late and have watched Dynamite that way. I have a family member that uses FuboTV to watch sports, but it also includes TNT. As far as I can tell, FuboTV isn't factored into ratings, currently. From what I gather, the idea behind Nielsen's "updated" rating system is to try and capture that kind of viewership in response to pushback from Networks that are unhappy with the "outdated" model (and the fact that Nielsen is a monopoly for all intents and purposes) and its effect upon advertising rates. I think if that kind of live viewership gets "captured" by ratings, it'll be a huge positive for entertainment brands like AEW that obviously trend younger.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Oct 19, 2021 9:37:23 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't care about ratings as long as they're not low enough that what I like will go out of business (and there's zero worry there), but I am enjoying watching some WWE fans act like that snooty kid who claimed you couldn't beat him at Street Fighter 2, then when you beat him barely after the time limit runs out it "doesn't count".
That's right, Gary. f*** you if you're reading this.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 19, 2021 9:39:11 GMT -5
I'm super interested in the effect that that's going to have on pro wrestling ratings. I think that AEW has a bigger streaming and social media footprint than we even suspect. How can AEW be streamed in the States? Besides the TNT app/on demand after it airs. Edit: now that I’m thinking about it, I assume it can be streamed on like YouTube TV and similar services that carry TNT. Reports actually said recently they are in discussions for a streaming partner for their content. The early thoughts are HBO Max.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 19, 2021 9:41:39 GMT -5
How can AEW be streamed in the States? Besides the TNT app/on demand after it airs. YouTube TV still has TNT on it, I believe? Think there are a couple of other services like it but I’m European so I’d have no idea what those are specifically called. Yeah you’re right. USA Network is on Hulu+, Sling TV, Fubo, YouTube TV, and Direct TV streaming. TNT is on all of those except for Fubo.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 19, 2021 9:43:33 GMT -5
How can AEW be streamed in the States? Besides the TNT app/on demand after it airs. Edit: now that I’m thinking about it, I assume it can be streamed on like YouTube TV and similar services that carry TNT. Reports actually said recently they are in discussions for a streaming partner for their content. The early thoughts are HBO Max. That’s different, that would be an archive model of streaming, not a live stream of their weekly shows.
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Post by eJm on Oct 19, 2021 10:00:12 GMT -5
Also, if you haven't heard it yet, Meltzer goes off on WWE on Wrestling Observer Radio this morning in a way he really doesn't usually do so. I'm not going to embed because of swearing but as a guy who's usually neutral on WWE in general, it's a surreal listen. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi_wyAKIy-E
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Post by cornettesracket on Oct 19, 2021 10:12:57 GMT -5
Also, if you haven't heard it yet, Meltzer goes off on WWE on Wrestling Observer Radio this morning in a way he really doesn't usually do so. I'm not going to embed because of swearing but as a guy who's usually neutral on WWE in general, it's a surreal listen. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi_wyAKIy-EDave meltzer is in no way neutral on WWE but yes it’s very unusual to hear him swear which has never struck me as part of his personality.
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Post by eJm on Oct 19, 2021 10:14:11 GMT -5
Also, if you haven't heard it yet, Meltzer goes off on WWE on Wrestling Observer Radio this morning in a way he really doesn't usually do so. I'm not going to embed because of swearing but as a guy who's usually neutral on WWE in general, it's a surreal listen. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi_wyAKIy-EDave meltzer is in no way neutral on WWE but yes it’s very unusual to hear him swear which has never struck me as part of his personality. I mean, he defends WWE way more than others on the site do, that's the fair way of putting it.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Oct 19, 2021 10:17:49 GMT -5
Didn't you know, Dave is totally on the AEW payroll. Totally. Definitely. Most certainly. For real. 100%.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Oct 19, 2021 10:21:20 GMT -5
Also, if you haven't heard it yet, Meltzer goes off on WWE on Wrestling Observer Radio this morning in a way he really doesn't usually do so. I'm not going to embed because of swearing but as a guy who's usually neutral on WWE in general, it's a surreal listen. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi_wyAKIy-EDave meltzer is in no way neutral on WWE but yes it’s very unusual to hear him swear which has never struck me as part of his personality. Think the frustration stems from wanting the E to be better. Which is common. And now, variables and all, there’s more and more proof in the pudding, so to speak.
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Post by eJm on Oct 19, 2021 10:28:35 GMT -5
Dave meltzer is in no way neutral on WWE but yes it’s very unusual to hear him swear which has never struck me as part of his personality. Think the frustration stems from wanting the E to be better. Which is common. And now, variables and all, there’s more and more proof in the pudding, so to speak. I think the big thing, as others have pointed out, is that a lot of this was preventable. HHH and Vince should have sat down in 2012 and figured out what they wanted development to be, hire the right trainers they wanted for the PC, sent people to scout what was going on across the industry at the time and built the show around what seemed to be the norm in the indies but integrate it in on a bigger stage pretty much what they did with the Attitude Era basing it off ECW. But none of that really happened. Sure, people got over but for a good decade, we were watching internal creative conflicts constantly play out on TV, making selling points of the network feel redundant and not being able to get a proper pipeline going in terms of adaptable, TV ready talent. That's not to say nobody got over or nobody became bigger than they did but many of those problems or even product-related problems could and should have been solved and now we're at the point where they might not be solved without a dramatic and thorough overhaul.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 10:43:59 GMT -5
YouTube TV still has TNT on it, I believe? Think there are a couple of other services like it but I’m European so I’d have no idea what those are specifically called. Yeah you’re right. USA Network is on Hulu+, Sling TV, Fubo, YouTube TV, and Direct TV streaming. TNT is on all of those except for Fubo. Yeah, and TNT was part of Fubo, at least until recently. I think that you can still get it with some kind of premium subscription, because I was fairly certain my uncle had it through Fubu and I see it advertised on the website. That's completely insane to me that Fubo is specifically the "sports-centric" streaming platform and it doesn't have Turner.
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Post by eJm on Oct 19, 2021 10:50:15 GMT -5
Also to add (and I'm doing it a lot in these threads), I feel like we sort of need to realize a lot of this ratings talk is a self-inflicted prophercy.
One of the biggest, most famous, periods in the history of the business had both sides constantly talking about ratings, the documentaries had talks about ratings, the interview narrative from those involved is about ratings, Russo's built a whole career telling people they need to do more for ratings, Cornette's the same way, Bischoff's the same way, Pritchard says ratings justify decisions the company he works for makes, Impact's own Monday Night War spent its time talking about ratings, I could go on.
Like, you can't say "we shouldn't be talking about ratings" when it's the main thing that comes up from companies. And yes, there is a part of it on fans making big deals about it and also yes, this is a wider TV thing and not just pro wrestling (shows have been cancelled not because of viewership but demos on a consistent basis. It's stupid but it's an industry standard) but if a lot of the industry seperated itself from that narrative and not made that important...I'd say we'd be in a different situation.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Oct 19, 2021 11:05:06 GMT -5
It’s hard to stop talking about ratings when it seems to be bred into the fandom.
And I get that ratings talk is annoying and this one particular case can be annoying on both sides. And I’m not gonna deny that I’m on AEW’s side in this matter, but at the same time, that’s because I came from the mid 90s as a fan and that was when ratings was the end all be all. And I was well aware of how shitty WCW’s ratings were in 2000, and I actually do remember feeling horrible about that. I shouldn’t have, hell WWE today and AEW would kill to have WCW 2000 ratings, but when you had WCW touting how they were number one because of ratings and when they couldn’t do that anymore, that was sad to me.
But I think it’s bred into us as fans at this point. Some want to get out of that, but even they will get dragged into it because wrestling fans love to debate that stuff. Unless a show you love is getting close to be canceled, no one outside of TV executives and Advertisers care about that stuff outside the wrestling bubble.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Oct 19, 2021 11:12:56 GMT -5
It’s hard to stop talking about ratings when it seems to be bred into the fandom. And I get that ratings talk is annoying and this one particular case can be annoying on both sides. And I’m not gonna deny that I’m on AEW’s side in this matter, but at the same time, that’s because I came from the mid 90s as a fan and that was when ratings was the end all be all. And I was well aware of how shitty WCW’s ratings were in 2000, and I actually do remember feeling horrible about that. I shouldn’t have, hell WWE today and AEW would kill to have WCW 2000 ratings, but when you had WCW touting how they were number one because of ratings and when they couldn’t do that anymore, that was sad to me. But I think it’s bred into us as fans at this point. Some want to get out of that, but even they will get dragged into it because wrestling fans love to debate that stuff. Unless a show you love is getting close to be canceled, no one outside of TV executives and Advertisers care about that stuff outside the wrestling bubble. Yeah, you can't put the genie back in the bottle and it just is what it is at this point. WWE trained people to find the notion of a "war" more entertaining than actual storylines.
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khali
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Post by khali on Oct 19, 2021 11:14:30 GMT -5
It’s also important to remember that we wouldn’t be talking about this week’s ratings so much if WWE hadn’t done this themselves. They chose to do this. They came to AEW with this fight, just like they did with NXT. It wouldn’t be such a hot topic if WWE hadn’t decided to go head to head twice now in attempt to get a win.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 19, 2021 11:45:34 GMT -5
A lot of this discussion reminds me of back in high school when the school bully would continually pick and push around the nerdy kid for weeks. Then the nerdy kid finally pushes back, but the school administration decides both are equally at fault and suspends them both for the same time.
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