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Post by gnr123 on Nov 23, 2021 0:35:12 GMT -5
No one should be attacking anyone or jumping out of the stands to attack anyone, I fully stand with the performers to be left alone and in peace. Get that out of the way. What I was saying is that "Getting free shots in while other people are holding someone down" doesn't make you look like the tough guy. That's a heel beatdown move, not a "I will fight you one on one" heroic hero move. That would make seth look worse if he's attacking a guy that's being held down and can't fight back is what I meant by that. My other point was that seth has been presented as one of the top guys and beaten many people. if some random fan can just jump out of the stands and do a move to take him out, and it takes twenty other guys to get rid of the fan, why isn't the fan world champion if he's that invincible. It's like in rookie of the year, where the kid throws the ball back to home and everyone in the crowd is in awe and they sign him to the team. If the people in the stands can do that, why aren't they playing instead? Everyone's initial reaction to seeing this happen was that it was a wrestler spearing him, so it just exposes the show if someone can jump out of the stands and do it, what do they need wrestling school for then. Like circus of the stars. If anyone off the street can just jump in and do it, what's so special about it? People should not be jumping out the stands to attack anyone, I have my doubts with nyc doing anything to this guy, but my point was, in kayfabe, within the context of the show, this random fan is now better than everyone seth has beat in matches. Seth beats people in matches, random fan takes out seth, random fan must be able to beat the people seth beat in matches and it makes the whole show look worse as a result in storyline. Random fan didn't do shit. Random fan bum-rushed Seth when he wasn't supposed to be bum-rushed. Anyone can go in an attack a wrestler and take them down, they're not invincible, their still human. Some guys may be harder to take down, but someone getting rushed on a stage from out of no-where will go down. You need wrestling school to learn how to run the ropes, how to punch, how to take slams, how to fall, how to protect you or your opponent during a high-flying move, how to sell, how to lift someone the proper way. Anyone can just rush someone and take them down. How is this random fan better than everyone Seth Rollins has beat? Even in kayfabe. How he pinned him? No. Has he pinned anyone who has beat Rollins? No. Has he won a belt? No. Has a main-evented WrestleMania? Won a Royal Rumble? Just rushing someone and taking them down doesn't mean your better than them. If I rushed you and took you down on the way to your work, does that mean I'm better than you at your job?
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Post by eJm on Nov 23, 2021 0:35:36 GMT -5
I've been to Barclays a bunch and they always have had a lot of security there. We have to remember this is just an extremely random event. Very few folks try this and for good reason. But this could legit happen anywhere at most arenas. If a wrestler is at ringside, almost anyone in that front row could jump over and get a shot in if that wanted to before someone gets to him. Should they have gotten to this guy faster? Definitely. But it also seems like he was in a spot that was dark where no one would expect someone to come from. I'm sure that would work at other arenas too. I wouldn't avoid Barclays here but given they use this arena setup everywhere, I'd make sure you have more security along that entranceway since it looks to be a potential blindspot. I think the issue, to me, is that it could happen at any arena but it didn’t. It happened at the same arena and it happened twice. Like, I’m not saying they shouldn’t go there or that it couldn’t have been a slip up that doesn’t usually happens but my wider point is that, like you said, there should be a re-evaluation of it for WWE shows because the fact is, two significant fan jumps have happened there and you don’t want there to be a third and gain a rep from it.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Nov 23, 2021 0:41:00 GMT -5
Chavo Guerrero says something. Whether people care or not is up to debate. "Remember Eddie Guerrero? Remember how he had the same last name as me? I'm like Eddie, but alive. Ah, the good ol' days. Please pay attention to me."
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 23, 2021 0:45:39 GMT -5
That's the best strategy for dealing with it in the moment. However, there is a larger atmospheric issue at work. When the headlines are screaming everything from perceived injustice to social and economic hardship, it is important for the one person, for whom all of WWE's writing team is giving their full creative investment, to make decisions about his product that do more to keep fans happy enough that their response to long-term misery booking isn't to snap and attack the talent. It's for reasons like this that I didn't have an issue with, say, beach balls during live events. Distracting? Yes, but it was also a safety valve for any frustrations that fans were having with the show itself. It's also why you had clown-type babyface characters like Hillbilly Jim, Junkyard Dog, Brodus Clay, Adam Rose or even a babyface Sami Zayn to stave off the negative vibes. Win or lose, they got fans' minds off the fact that a heel had gotten over on the previous match. More importantly, however, it's why your face-to-heel win ratio was best worked out to favour the faces, at least on a few of the big matches. If a heel has to go over in the main event, you have at least one very exciting match just beforehand where the face or faces win with a big and memorable finish. Booking each card impacts the crowd's energy for the next card; booking long-term in a way that satisfies the crowd, if not sating them entirely, is how you build positive energy and how you avoid things getting so heated or negative that frustration spills over into anger. "WWE's heel-centric booking encourages fans to jump the rail and attack wrestlers" is certainly a take. F***, there are bigger issues at work if that's the case for the average fan, and they're not at WWE's end of the matter. Yeah... the booking isn't responsible for this. Most people are aware taht Wrestling is just a show, and the ones that don't (to the extent they'll try something like this) tend to have issues separating fiction from reality regardless. edit: Also yeah shut the f*** up Chavo.
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Post by eJm on Nov 23, 2021 0:48:18 GMT -5
On the one hand, Chavo does mostly do stunt work for TV shows, the reason he’s not in AEW is because he’s working on Season Two of Young Rock, so he’s not doing nothing. Nor would he be fired for it or anything.
On the other, dude, come on now. You know what would have happened if Seth fought back in any way other than he did, this isn’t 90s WCW anymore where the camera would have been with the fan on the ground and Randy Savage stomping on his head. WWE would have been sued to high heaven and it’d somehow still happen because the US Justice System is weird and a lawyer would find a loophole or something. Oh, and Seth would also be in jail somehow.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,725
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Post by nisidhe on Nov 23, 2021 0:55:36 GMT -5
That's assuming quite a lot of things about this weirdo fan that we don't rly know anything about, and even if it wasn't, that's gotta be one of the most unsympathetic things I've ever heard. If you'd be so kind as to point out what I'd said specifically that lacked empathy, I'd be very happy to refute your assertion. Until then, don't be putting my name to an empty quote and answering it with that kind of accusation.
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Post by gnr123 on Nov 23, 2021 0:57:16 GMT -5
The fact that people on here are actually defending this fan attacking Rollins, is astounding to me. I guess people have never heard of Dimebag Darrell and how he was killed on stage by some lunatic with a gun. Anytime a wrestler is attacked by a fan, anything can happen. That person could have a weapon, and could use the weapon to harm the wrestler, someone is this case is just playing a character as a bad guy and has recently became a father. Wrestler's may appear larger than life, but they are human. No one is immortal. The asshole who attacked him ran down full speed down the ramp and plowed into Seth, Seth is lucky he didn't hit his head on the rampway. You have to understand that wrestlers have a way to fall to protect themselves, there's no way to protect or predict a guy with this f***wad's built to take you down from the stage. The only thing you can hope is he's unarmed and you can detain the situation.
Also, once again, f*** Chavo.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,791
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Post by Chiral on Nov 23, 2021 0:59:52 GMT -5
Not another fan jumping in, but someone was also ejected during the dark main event
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Post by Stone Coke Miami Watson 🥃 on Nov 23, 2021 1:02:20 GMT -5
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Nov 23, 2021 1:04:25 GMT -5
No one should be attacking anyone or jumping out of the stands to attack anyone, I fully stand with the performers to be left alone and in peace. Get that out of the way. What I was saying is that "Getting free shots in while other people are holding someone down" doesn't make you look like the tough guy. That's a heel beatdown move, not a "I will fight you one on one" heroic hero move. That would make seth look worse if he's attacking a guy that's being held down and can't fight back is what I meant by that. My other point was that seth has been presented as one of the top guys and beaten many people. if some random fan can just jump out of the stands and do a move to take him out, and it takes twenty other guys to get rid of the fan, why isn't the fan world champion if he's that invincible. It's like in rookie of the year, where the kid throws the ball back to home and everyone in the crowd is in awe and they sign him to the team. If the people in the stands can do that, why aren't they playing instead? Everyone's initial reaction to seeing this happen was that it was a wrestler spearing him, so it just exposes the show if someone can jump out of the stands and do it, what do they need wrestling school for then. Like circus of the stars. If anyone off the street can just jump in and do it, what's so special about it? People should not be jumping out the stands to attack anyone, I have my doubts with nyc doing anything to this guy, but my point was, in kayfabe, within the context of the show, this random fan is now better than everyone seth has beat in matches. Seth beats people in matches, random fan takes out seth, random fan must be able to beat the people seth beat in matches and it makes the whole show look worse as a result in storyline. It's like if vader is killing people on the show for years, and one day some random fan jumps out the stands and takes down vader in one move and it takes twenty guys from the back to get rid of the fan. The fan must be able to easily beat all of the people vader beat if this guy can do that to the top guy that's been beating everyone, and I would expect a vader vs fan match or something after that, or else the whole show just got exposed as "here's what happens when someone who isn't playing along and does it for real gets involved". Like how self defense classes work great when the other guy is playing along and selling the moves for you, but don't do anything when you're fighting for real. Fans should not be involving themselves in the action, etc/whatever disclaimer you want, it shouldn't have happened at all, my point/concern that I was making is that 1) seth looks ridiculous yelling "come on!" while the guy has twenty people holding him down, and getting "free shots" on someone who can't fight back doesn't make you tougher 2) it breaks kayfabe and makes everyone that seth has beaten look weaker within the context of the show. That this fan can now beat all of them too. Bro it's fake
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ayumidah
Wade Wilson
Don't bother pretending I seem fine, I like that I'm a mess
Posts: 27,365
Member is Online
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Post by ayumidah on Nov 23, 2021 1:15:10 GMT -5
Here I was expecting an average, boring-ish Raw I could write through, then this happened and completely knocked me off my game. it happened so suddenly, I thought maybe it was Kevin Owens at first, Then realized it was a fan just as the camera panned away. Glad he's alright, that could've gone so much worse than it actually did.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Nov 23, 2021 1:26:32 GMT -5
Here I was expecting an average, boring-ish Raw I could write through, then this happened and completely knocked me off my game. it happened so suddenly, I thought maybe it was Kevin Owens at first, Then realized it was a fan just as the camera panned away. Glad he's alright, that could've gone so much worse than it actually did. Commentary thought it was a wrestler at first, as well. They began to mention the tackle, before the camera cut away and they got quiet. So they were thinking it was a wrestler, till somebody on their headsets screamed "Not a wrestler!" This guy's gonna get banned from WWE for life, and you know that AEW is trying to find out who he is, so they can ban him as well.
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ayumidah
Wade Wilson
Don't bother pretending I seem fine, I like that I'm a mess
Posts: 27,365
Member is Online
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Post by ayumidah on Nov 23, 2021 1:32:44 GMT -5
Chavo blocked me. lmao.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Nov 23, 2021 1:33:51 GMT -5
Pretty thin skinned. Remember when the wrestlers were tougher than the fans? Ah, the good ol’ days.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Nov 23, 2021 1:36:52 GMT -5
People blaming this on WWE’s booking. Oh my god. Lol
I’m begging you to use any money you have and get a life.
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Post by defectiveepitaph on Nov 23, 2021 1:38:25 GMT -5
No one should be attacking anyone or jumping out of the stands to attack anyone, I fully stand with the performers to be left alone and in peace. Get that out of the way. What I was saying is that "Getting free shots in while other people are holding someone down" doesn't make you look like the tough guy. That's a heel beatdown move, not a "I will fight you one on one" heroic hero move. That would make seth look worse if he's attacking a guy that's being held down and can't fight back is what I meant by that. My other point was that seth has been presented as one of the top guys and beaten many people. if some random fan can just jump out of the stands and do a move to take him out, and it takes twenty other guys to get rid of the fan, why isn't the fan world champion if he's that invincible. It's like in rookie of the year, where the kid throws the ball back to home and everyone in the crowd is in awe and they sign him to the team. If the people in the stands can do that, why aren't they playing instead? Everyone's initial reaction to seeing this happen was that it was a wrestler spearing him, so it just exposes the show if someone can jump out of the stands and do it, what do they need wrestling school for then. Like circus of the stars. If anyone off the street can just jump in and do it, what's so special about it? People should not be jumping out the stands to attack anyone, I have my doubts with nyc doing anything to this guy, but my point was, in kayfabe, within the context of the show, this random fan is now better than everyone seth has beat in matches. Seth beats people in matches, random fan takes out seth, random fan must be able to beat the people seth beat in matches and it makes the whole show look worse as a result in storyline. It's like if vader is killing people on the show for years, and one day some random fan jumps out the stands and takes down vader in one move and it takes twenty guys from the back to get rid of the fan. The fan must be able to easily beat all of the people vader beat if this guy can do that to the top guy that's been beating everyone, and I would expect a vader vs fan match or something after that, or else the whole show just got exposed as "here's what happens when someone who isn't playing along and does it for real gets involved". Like how self defense classes work great when the other guy is playing along and selling the moves for you, but don't do anything when you're fighting for real. Fans should not be involving themselves in the action, etc/whatever disclaimer you want, it shouldn't have happened at all, my point/concern that I was making is that 1) seth looks ridiculous yelling "come on!" while the guy has twenty people holding him down, and getting "free shots" on someone who can't fight back doesn't make you tougher 2) it breaks kayfabe and makes everyone that seth has beaten look weaker within the context of the show. That this fan can now beat all of them too. Bro it's fake Seth has killed kayfabe, wrestling is dead.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 23, 2021 1:42:50 GMT -5
"I have also blocked Chavo."
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Posts: 236,230
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 23, 2021 1:46:02 GMT -5
No one should be attacking anyone or jumping out of the stands to attack anyone, I fully stand with the performers to be left alone and in peace. Get that out of the way. What I was saying is that "Getting free shots in while other people are holding someone down" doesn't make you look like the tough guy. That's a heel beatdown move, not a "I will fight you one on one" heroic hero move. That would make seth look worse if he's attacking a guy that's being held down and can't fight back is what I meant by that. My other point was that seth has been presented as one of the top guys and beaten many people. if some random fan can just jump out of the stands and do a move to take him out, and it takes twenty other guys to get rid of the fan, why isn't the fan world champion if he's that invincible. It's like in rookie of the year, where the kid throws the ball back to home and everyone in the crowd is in awe and they sign him to the team. If the people in the stands can do that, why aren't they playing instead? Everyone's initial reaction to seeing this happen was that it was a wrestler spearing him, so it just exposes the show if someone can jump out of the stands and do it, what do they need wrestling school for then. Like circus of the stars. If anyone off the street can just jump in and do it, what's so special about it? People should not be jumping out the stands to attack anyone, I have my doubts with nyc doing anything to this guy, but my point was, in kayfabe, within the context of the show, this random fan is now better than everyone seth has beat in matches. Seth beats people in matches, random fan takes out seth, random fan must be able to beat the people seth beat in matches and it makes the whole show look worse as a result in storyline. It's like if vader is killing people on the show for years, and one day some random fan jumps out the stands and takes down vader in one move and it takes twenty guys from the back to get rid of the fan. The fan must be able to easily beat all of the people vader beat if this guy can do that to the top guy that's been beating everyone, and I would expect a vader vs fan match or something after that, or else the whole show just got exposed as "here's what happens when someone who isn't playing along and does it for real gets involved". Like how self defense classes work great when the other guy is playing along and selling the moves for you, but don't do anything when you're fighting for real. Fans should not be involving themselves in the action, etc/whatever disclaimer you want, it shouldn't have happened at all, my point/concern that I was making is that 1) seth looks ridiculous yelling "come on!" while the guy has twenty people holding him down, and getting "free shots" on someone who can't fight back doesn't make you tougher 2) it breaks kayfabe and makes everyone that seth has beaten look weaker within the context of the show. That this fan can now beat all of them too. You've been on FAN for 12 years but THIS is the hill you choose to die on? It's astounding how frequently this happens in threads like this. Someone has to have the outlandish take and derail what is and should be the most cut and dry situation imaginable. Trying to connect kayfabe toughness optics to a fan attack in 2021 is not the way to think about this real life situation what so f***ing ever. I really hope you take in what people are saying here and get why so many have a problem with it. Cause this just ain't it.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Posts: 236,230
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 23, 2021 1:51:49 GMT -5
People blaming this on WWE’s booking. Oh my god. Lol I’m begging you to use any money you have and get a life. This is the Animaniacs "Please Get a Life Foundation" skit... but we're actually seeing it happen.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,101
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Post by Mecca on Nov 23, 2021 2:09:48 GMT -5
On the one hand, Chavo does mostly do stunt work for TV shows, the reason he’s not in AEW is because he’s working on Season Two of Young Rock, so he’s not doing nothing. Nor would he be fired for it or anything. On the other, dude, come on now. You know what would have happened if Seth fought back in any way other than he did, this isn’t 90s WCW anymore where the camera would have been with the fan on the ground and Randy Savage stomping on his head. WWE would have been sued to high heaven and it’d somehow still happen because the US Justice System is weird and a lawyer would find a loophole or something. Oh, and Seth would also be in jail somehow. Hey remember that time CM Punk was in the crowd and smacked the shit out of a fan that wouldn't stop grabbing him?
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