Well, it was nice knowing you, Toni

[Deleted]

Nov 27, 2021 3:14:05 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

Hitting people in the face with pies? What is this, the Krusty the Clown show?

Soon, the one woman pie throwing skit starring Toni Storm will happen and WWE will go, "That's money!"

[HMARK Center]

Nov 27, 2021 2:19:44 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

There's nothing inherently wrong with a face getting hit with pies without relatiating. It should just relate to who that person is and their overall motivations and character traits. Is this what Toni would do?

Not a single person discussing this has been thinking about that, though, everyone's just "the face" and "the heel." This is of course completely appropriate, because that's entirely how the people writing it think about it. No one HAS distinct motivations.

It really just completely flummoxes me sometimes to sit down and remember how utterly the WWE fails at even the most basic and fundamental aspects of storytelling.

Right: *why* would Toni stand there and just take such humiliation from Charlotte? Is there something in Toni’s character that would motivate her to do that? Is it a weakness or hang up she has to overcome? Is it a sign of stoic strength, and what she’s doing is psyching Charlotte out by showing her “nothing you do can break my focus on beating you, go ahead and do your worst trying to bully me”? If it’s either, has WWE done anything before last night to build to such a segment so the audience would understand why Toni reacted the way she did?

Hell, make it far simpler: was there some kind of “Charlotte can’t be touched right now due to <insert weird kayfabe rule or legal thing here>” or “Toni can’t lay a hand on Charlotte if she wants her title shot” stipulation going on? Then you’d at least be interested in seeing if Charlotte could push her to a boiling point.

And here’s the big one for me: will a segment of Charlotte throwing pies in Toni’s face contribute anything to the story or psychology of their eventual match, or are we going to get WWE’s typical “face starts hot, heel cuts off, build heat, cut off face comeback, build to finish” formula with maybe a few extra seconds of fighting outside the ring thrown in? If not, then what the hell does this accomplish besides remind the audience “it was thanksgiving last night”?

It’s a bunch of random segments that don’t inform anything, don’t set up and kind of logical pay off, and don’t get anybody over. BUY OUR SHIT!

I do agree that Storm isn’t buried 100% or whatever, this random ass company could just decide one day that they’re gonna push her out of nowhere, but citing Bayley, to me, might not be the best example. She certainly did seem to make chicken salad out of chicken shit and made her heel turn work, but in a company plagued by “GET HEAT” mandates, I think fans might be tired of potentially bankable face characters having to turn heel to have any personality or prayer of getting over. Bayley had a ton of potential as a face, and while she’s played her heel role well it still creates that vibe of “damn, good guys in this company can’t do anything right” that’s driving a lot of people away.

[J is Justice]

Pies? Man, this thread's confusing if you didn't watch the show.

[Rumble McSkirmish]

One way WWE can salvage this segment is if next week Toni reveals in an interview that her papa wrestled as a fake Doink The Clown on the Australian independent circuit and would often practice his act on young Toni, thus getting pie faced caused her childhood trauma to resurface and immobilized her.

(If any WWE writers are lurking here you can have this for free.)

[EvenBaldobombHasAJob]

I'm half convinced the reason for all the faces being booked like losers while the heels win all the time is because Vince can't identify with anyone who isn't as big an asshole as he is anymore.

[sunnytaker]

but shouldn;t we be celebrating the fact the wwe finally made someone look strong in their hometown area?

(or am i wrong about the show being in NC this week?)

[eJm]

Nov 27, 2021 7:11:00 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Nov 27, 2021 2:19:44 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

There's nothing inherently wrong with a face getting hit with pies without relatiating. It should just relate to who that person is and their overall motivations and character traits. Is this what Toni would do?

Not a single person discussing this has been thinking about that, though, everyone's just "the face" and "the heel." This is of course completely appropriate, because that's entirely how the people writing it think about it. No one HAS distinct motivations.

It really just completely flummoxes me sometimes to sit down and remember how utterly the WWE fails at even the most basic and fundamental aspects of storytelling.

Right: *why* would Toni stand there and just take such humiliation from Charlotte? Is there something in Toni’s character that would motivate her to do that? Is it a weakness or hang up she has to overcome? Is it a sign of stoic strength, and what she’s doing is psyching Charlotte out by showing her “nothing you do can break my focus on beating you, go ahead and do your worst trying to bully me”? Is it’s either, has WWE done anything before last night to build to such a segment so the audience would understand why Toni reacted the way she did?

Hell, make it far simpler: was there some kind of “Charlotte can’t be touched right now due to <insert weird kayfabe rule or legal thing here>” or “Toni can’t lay a hand on Charlotte if she wants her title shot” stipulation going on? Then you’d at least be interested in seeing if Charlotte could push her to a boiling point.

And here’s the big one for me: will a segment of Charlotte throwing pies in Toni’s face contribute anything to the story or psychology of their eventual match, or are we going to get WWE’s typical “face starts hot, heel cuts off, build heat, cut off face comeback, build to finish” formula with maybe a few extra seconds of fighting outside the ring thrown in? If not, then what the hell does this accomplish besides remind the audience “it was thanksgiving last night”?

It’s a bunch of random segments that don’t inform anything, don’t set up and kind of logical pay off, and don’t get anybody over. BUY OUR SHIT!

The craziest thing to me is that this is the sort of stuff this company established and was known for. The fact they've backtracked from it so much is just the craziest thing because they'd be the first to cry out at other companies for not doing it or being funny in conference calls.

It's like a great film director doing wild shit that went against stuff they loved in the first place. The fact it's done badly is bad enough but coming from them? It just feels wrong, man.

I do agree that Storm isn’t buried 100% or whatever, this random ass company could just decide one day that they’re gonna push her out of nowhere, but citing Bayley, to me, might not be the best example. She certainly did seem to make chicken salad out of chicken shit and made her heel turn work, but in a company plagued by “GET HEAT” mandates, I think fans might be tired of potentially bankable face characters having to turn heel to have any personality or prayer of getting over. Bayley had a ton of potential as a face, and while she’s played her heel role well it still creates that vibe of “damn, good guys in this company can’t do anything right” that’s driving a lot of people away.

Like, look, Bayley got back on track after an absolute car crash of a start. But "She found her calling as a heel after being treated like shit as a babyface" isn't the glowing appraisal people think it is. If anything, it's a pretty damning statement on the state of how this company treats babyfaces when the best idea they have for them is "turn them heel".

[msc]

I just fast forward over Charlotte segments now. You know she's going to dominate. Sure enough, I skipped forward 5 mins and Toni Storm was covered in white goo. No one gets anything from Flair seeing to all the other woman like this.

But then I feel like everyone women inbetween the Horsewomen and the Cora Jade type newbies is at danger from release at any time.

[Deleted]

It's crazy that so many of us (myself included) have no faith in WWE to make Toni come out of this looking good, because on paper she's someone they SHOULD be wanting to make into a star. She's still super young, really good on the mic, decent enough in the ring, and obviously very attractive.

[Deleted]

That is how engrained WWE's shitty booking has beoome especially when it comes to certain booked people on the roster.

We all know exactly how this is going to end up because you can literally see their pattern a mile away because it is the same pattern every single time.

Charlotte and Sasha are both just biding their time running through every other woman making the rest of the division completely worthless untill they face each other for the title and so it makes what they are doing with Toni so much more aggrivating because common sense should dictate she SHOULD win this feud with Charlotte by winning the title but it aint gonna happen because the obvious booking is that gawd damn sadly obvious.

Hell Shotzi has completely now been cast aside because now Sasha got moved into Naomis orbit and now feuding with Sonya.

I expect the same with Toni.

[asuka007]

This is every Charlotte feud pretty much since like 2016 at least:

-She comes out, ridiculous and mocks and dismisses her opponents.

-Clowns them repeatedly while suffering little if any comeuppance herself (and even if she does, she rarely sells it anyway).

-Beats them decisively in the end.

That’s like 98% of Charlotte main roster feuds, her opponents get nothing out of feuding with her. And why after this should fans think Toni won’t just be more of the same?

WWE does not have enough female babyfaces to be clowning one of the more talented ones like this.

[rocket]

Nov 27, 2021 12:07:52 GMT -5 @dax said:

It's crazy that so many of us (myself included) have no faith in WWE to make Toni come out of this looking good, because on paper she's someone they SHOULD be wanting to make into a star. She's still super young, really good on the mic, decent enough in the ring, and obviously very attractive.

If I had a cent for every time over the years that they screwed up a surefire star up I'd be rich enough to buy the WWE.

[asuka007]

How WWE has both Toni Storm and Rhea Ripley, who are young talented women who you would THINK would be Vince and co’s dream girls, and neither of them feel like top stars right now, is beyond me?

[Ludwig Kaiser’s Walk]

As a person with a pie in the face fetish, 4 pages of discussion on Toni getting pied is great

The booking of that segment was hilariously atrocious though. Made Toni look like a giant nerd

[carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army)]

Nov 27, 2021 10:41:25 GMT -5 eJm said:

The craziest thing to me is that this is the sort of stuff this company established and was known for. The fact they've backtracked from it so much is just the craziest thing because they'd be the first to cry out at other companies for not doing it or being funny in conference calls.

It's like a great film director doing wild shit that went against stuff they loved in the first place. The fact it's done badly is bad enough but coming from them? It just feels wrong, man.

ehhhhhhhhhhhh let's not go nuts. The WWE has very rarely been anywhere close to GOOD with making real characters with real motivations, it's just that they used to be a lot better at meeting the very low bar of supplying them at all.

[dbrussel]

I'm gonna be a "wait & see" guy for once and say Toni can be saved. I know that's dangerous with releases every few months but i like to live on the edge

[eJm]

Nov 27, 2021 17:10:34 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

Nov 27, 2021 10:41:25 GMT -5 eJm said:

The craziest thing to me is that this is the sort of stuff this company established and was known for. The fact they've backtracked from it so much is just the craziest thing because they'd be the first to cry out at other companies for not doing it or being funny in conference calls.

It's like a great film director doing wild shit that went against stuff they loved in the first place. The fact it's done badly is bad enough but coming from them? It just feels wrong, man.

ehhhhhhhhhhhh let's not go nuts. The WWE has very rarely been anywhere close to GOOD with making real characters with real motivations, it's just that they used to be a lot better at meeting the very low bar of supplying them at all.

Which was still a low enough bar to cross that the audience would at least be able to root for the characters and care about them.

Like, Crush in his feud against Doink in 1995, the original creative low of the company, wouldn’t have taken one pie to the face never mind two and he was further away from a championship match than Toni Storm is right now.

[asuka007]

This and that battle Royale just shows how utterly lacking in proper main event stars SD is. And it’s not like there is not talent in there.

But WWE is so obsessed with pushing the same old people endlessly and doing the same old crap again and again and again, that no one new or interesting has been built up.

[JoDaNa1281]

Nov 27, 2021 12:07:52 GMT -5 @dax said:

It's crazy that so many of us (myself included) have no faith in WWE to make Toni come out of this looking good, because on paper she's someone they SHOULD be wanting to make into a star. She's still super young, really good on the mic, decent enough in the ring, and obviously very attractive.

Kevin Dunn: "Well, yes...but, did you hear that accent of hers? Hahahaha, she's not American...how can we push her, Vince?"

[J is Justice]

Nov 27, 2021 11:46:41 GMT -5 msc said:

and Toni Storm was covered in white goo.