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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Nov 26, 2021 21:58:17 GMT -5
Tonight, we witnessed a textbook example of how to kill someone dead in one segment.
1. Book said someone in a promo battle with the top heel in their division
2. Have that top heel completely outclass said someone on the mic
3. Have top heel throw a pie in said someone's face
4. Said someone does nothing
5. Top heel taunts said someone, then hits them with a second pie
6. Said someone stands and pouts, while wiping pie off of their face
7. Top heel gloats, segment ends
Like, yeesh. Toni's been on the main roster since July, but did nothing until three weeks ago. And now... she's dead. Seriously. There is no way she can come back from this. Even if she beats Charlotte (HAHAHAHAHA), she'll always be the woman who got hit with two pies and cried about it. Pathetic. How can you even defend that?
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Nov 26, 2021 22:02:14 GMT -5
Absolutely horrific booking for a face having her just stand there for all of that. Did both heel women's champs need a "OHH YOU GONNA *CRY*" segment with their challengers this week
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2021 22:02:36 GMT -5
That shit would've annoyed me even if I wasn't a fan of Toni's. They made her look like a total goober. I have no reason to believe she's going to come out of this feud looking any better than Rhea did against Charlotte.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Nov 26, 2021 22:05:04 GMT -5
WWE cannot book babyfaces to save their lives.
And they wonder why it’s hard to get other women over properly against the Horsewomen. It’s crap like this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2021 22:08:29 GMT -5
I'll say what I said in that thread and nah, Toni ain't done or dead. It sucked but she can overcome if they want her to overcome. The issue is that we don't know if they want her to overcome. We can all acknowledge it was trash and still say that she ain't dead.
People always say someone is dead whether it's Kofi, Bryan, Big E, Becky Lynch, Bayley, Roman Reigns, Corbin got it, Damien Priest even got it even though it was a few weeks, Asuka got it, Bianca got it last year before she was champion, Lashley got it, hell Drew McIntyre got it when he was paired with Ziggler, Usos got it before that heel turn, Rollins got it, before he was IC Champion and even after that Wyatt stuff and yet he recovered, Naomi got it numerous times, I mean I've only named talent still on the roster. There's all these others who got that "hey they're done after this stuff happened" thing too. Like Strowman got it so many times it's crazy. Wyatt got it every other month it seemed.
There's a difference between defending it and saying someone is done. Yeah it was bad, yeah it shouldn't have happened, yeah it was trash. But to say someone is dead or done and all that stuff after people have been through far worse things...nah. There's worse and others have othercome and Toni still has a chance.
Basically, yeah it was bad but she's not dead or done. If people wanna disagree with it after all the others we've seen I don't know what to tell you.
I'd say the biggest thing to speak about is who they want to dethrone Charlotte. It can be anyone on the roster and it'll work regardless if they're established or not, it's just a matter of if it'll be Toni or not.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Nov 26, 2021 22:10:39 GMT -5
WWE THINKS they’re booking “underdogs” because that is the only type of faces they know how to do.
The problem is they cannot even do that right. They mistake “underdog” for “loser chump.”
There was ZERO good reason to book this segment like this.
And the bigger issue is pretty much no one ever gets to beat Charlotte in the end, which makes it even worse.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Nov 26, 2021 22:20:12 GMT -5
Vince is bad at writing stories and should be laughed at until his feelings are so hurt that he takes a writing class.
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Post by polarbearpete on Nov 26, 2021 22:21:42 GMT -5
I'll say what I said in that thread and nah, Toni ain't done or dead. It sucked but she can overcome if they want her to overcome. The issue is that we don't know if they want her to overcome. We can all acknowledge it was trash and still say that she ain't dead. People always say someone is dead whether it's Kofi, Bryan, Big E, Becky Lynch, Bayley, Roman Reigns, Corbin got it, Damien Priest even got it even though it was a few weeks, Asuka got it, Bianca got it last year before she was champion, Lashley got it, hell Drew McIntyre got it when he was paired with Ziggler, Usos got it before that heel turn, Rollins got it, before he was IC Champion and even after that Wyatt stuff and yet he recovered, Naomi got it numerous times, I mean I've only named talent still on the roster. There's all these others who got that "hey they're done after this stuff happened" thing too. Like Strowman got it so many times it's crazy. Wyatt got it every other month it seemed. There's a difference between defending it and saying someone is done. Yeah it was bad, yeah it shouldn't have happened, yeah it was trash. But to say someone is dead or done and all that stuff after people have been through far worse things...nah. There's worse and others have othercome and Toni still has a chance. Basically, yeah it was bad but she's not dead or done. If people wanna disagree with it after all the others we've seen I don't know what to tell you. I'd say the bigger thing to speak about is who they wnat to dethrone Charlotte. It can be anyone on the roster and it'll work, it's just a matter of if it'll be Toni or not. Yeah everyone always jumps to that hyperbolic conclusion. She’ll be fine if they care to make her fine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2021 22:27:25 GMT -5
It was absoloute horse shit no other way to put that booking.
This SHOULD lead to her winning the title no questions asked but it wont , she will get beat and then hopefully for her sake get released and go onto better things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2021 22:31:23 GMT -5
It would've been better if Toni went after Charlotte and started beating her ass, but Charlotte poked her in the eye or something and then laid her out. Not everyone needs to be Steve Austin, but no one likes a face who just stands there and takes that treatment like a chump.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 26, 2021 22:34:03 GMT -5
I'll say what I said in that thread and nah, Toni ain't done or dead. It sucked but she can overcome if they want her to overcome. The issue is that we don't know if they want her to overcome. We can all acknowledge it was trash and still say that she ain't dead. People always say someone is dead whether it's Kofi, Bryan, Big E, Becky Lynch, Bayley, Roman Reigns, Corbin got it, Damien Priest even got it even though it was a few weeks, Asuka got it, Bianca got it last year before she was champion, Lashley got it, hell Drew McIntyre got it when he was paired with Ziggler, Usos got it before that heel turn, Rollins got it, before he was IC Champion and even after that Wyatt stuff and yet he recovered, Naomi got it numerous times, I mean I've only named talent still on the roster. There's all these others who got that "hey they're done after this stuff happened" thing too. Like Strowman got it so many times it's crazy. Wyatt got it every other month it seemed. There's a difference between defending it and saying someone is done. Yeah it was bad, yeah it shouldn't have happened, yeah it was trash. But to say someone is dead or done and all that stuff after people have been through far worse things...nah. There's worse and others have othercome and Toni still has a chance. Basically, yeah it was bad but she's not dead or done. If people wanna disagree with it after all the others we've seen I don't know what to tell you. I'd say the biggest thing to speak about is who they want to dethrone Charlotte. It can be anyone on the roster and it'll work regardless if they're established or not, it's just a matter of if it'll be Toni or not. Yeah, people are usually only “done” or “buried” because there is no expectation that they will be booked to recover from it (which is fair, don’t get me wrong). If they make an honest proper go of it however, those people are RARELY truly done and crowds will get behind them.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Nov 26, 2021 22:39:36 GMT -5
Rather than debate of the semantics of wrestlers being done, I wanna reiterate that they had the heel champ say what a loser the face is on the mic, then when the face attacks they hit the face with a pie twice with like two minutes between shots and the face did absolutely nothing but cry, even as the heel stood there asking for a fight and left very slowly.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 26, 2021 22:43:37 GMT -5
Rather than a debate of the semantics of wrestlers being done, I wanna reiterate that they had the heel champ say what a loser the face is on the mic, then when the face attacks they hit the face with a pie twice with like two minutes between shots and the face did absolutely nothing but cry, even as the heel stood there asking for a fight and left very slowly. OK, it's bad writing, but I don't WANT it to have killed her dead, why do I have to say that it did?
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Nov 26, 2021 22:43:53 GMT -5
It would have been so easy to fix this.
Charlotte puts the first pie in Charlotte’s face.
Toni gets angry, attacks, and puts Charlotte through the table.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Nov 26, 2021 22:47:09 GMT -5
It would have been so easy to fix this. Charlotte puts the first pie in Charlotte’s face. Toni gets angry, attacks, and puts Charlotte through the table. See, you get it. Booking wrestling is not hard at all. I didn’t watch and I saw the clip. What the hell man. They are either incapable or unwilling to book strong baby faces. Because that was pathetic. She has to be on the chopping block at some point, because they really honestly couldn’t think that is gonna get her over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2021 22:49:14 GMT -5
I'll say what I said in that thread and nah, Toni ain't done or dead. It sucked but she can overcome if they want her to overcome. The issue is that we don't know if they want her to overcome. We can all acknowledge it was trash and still say that she ain't dead. People always say someone is dead whether it's Kofi, Bryan, Big E, Becky Lynch, Bayley, Roman Reigns, Corbin got it, Damien Priest even got it even though it was a few weeks, Asuka got it, Bianca got it last year before she was champion, Lashley got it, hell Drew McIntyre got it when he was paired with Ziggler, Usos got it before that heel turn, Rollins got it, before he was IC Champion and even after that Wyatt stuff and yet he recovered, Naomi got it numerous times, I mean I've only named talent still on the roster. There's all these others who got that "hey they're done after this stuff happened" thing too. Like Strowman got it so many times it's crazy. Wyatt got it every other month it seemed. There's a difference between defending it and saying someone is done. Yeah it was bad, yeah it shouldn't have happened, yeah it was trash. But to say someone is dead or done and all that stuff after people have been through far worse things...nah. There's worse and others have othercome and Toni still has a chance. Basically, yeah it was bad but she's not dead or done. If people wanna disagree with it after all the others we've seen I don't know what to tell you. I'd say the biggest thing to speak about is who they want to dethrone Charlotte. It can be anyone on the roster and it'll work regardless if they're established or not, it's just a matter of if it'll be Toni or not. Yeah, people are usually only “done” or “buried” because there is no expectation that they will be booked to recover from it (which is fair, don’t get me wrong). If they make an honest proper go of it however, those people are RARELY truly done and crowds will get behind them. Yeah the only times where we can truly say someone is really really really done is when we get comments in the dirtsheets about them having so much heat that there's issue to where they won't push them. I mean at that point people aren't on tv. Rather than a debate of the semantics of wrestlers being done, I wanna reiterate that they had the heel champ say what a loser the face is on the mic, then when the face attacks they hit the face with a pie twice with like two minutes between shots and the face did absolutely nothing but cry, even as the heel stood there asking for a fight and left very slowly. That's the perfect situation for the face to have a "they've been pushed beyond their breaking point, they can't take it anymore look at them go" situation where they go off on the heel until the heel escapes looking shocked that the face did it. Even in that segment Toni was holding back her feelings as Charlotte walked away. This company's done that many times in the past.
Yeah it sucked and made Toni look bad but it's still in that realm of "heel makes face angry so many times until the face breaks out" territory they always do. All you gotta do is have the crowd cheer her as Charlotte's playing with her and then have her go off on Charlotte ending with Charlotte escaping the ring. Even Reigns got that on Triple H in 2016 which resulted in mad cheers for Reigns in one of the worst periods for him.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Nov 26, 2021 22:55:03 GMT -5
There should be a bad writing tax mandated by the government and regulated by me.
If you pollute the Earth with bad writing, you get a big ol' fine.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Nov 26, 2021 22:56:33 GMT -5
Yeah, people are usually only “done” or “buried” because there is no expectation that they will be booked to recover from it (which is fair, don’t get me wrong). If they make an honest proper go of it however, those people are RARELY truly done and crowds will get behind them. Yeah the only times where we can truly say someone is really really really done is when we get comments in the dirtsheets about them having so much heat that there's issue to where they won't push them. I mean at that point people aren't on tv. Rather than a debate of the semantics of wrestlers being done, I wanna reiterate that they had the heel champ say what a loser the face is on the mic, then when the face attacks they hit the face with a pie twice with like two minutes between shots and the face did absolutely nothing but cry, even as the heel stood there asking for a fight and left very slowly. That's the perfect situation for the face to have a "they've been pushed beyond their breaking point, they can't take it anymore look at them go" situation where they go off on the heel until the heel escapes looking shocked that the face did it. Even in that segment Toni was holding back her feelings as Charlotte walked away. This company's done that many times in the past.
Yeah it sucked and made Toni look bad but it's still in that realm of "heel makes face angry so many times until the face breaks out" territory they always do. All you gotta do is have the crowd cheer her as Charlotte's playing with her and then have her go off on Charlotte ending with Charlotte escaping the ring. Even Reigns got that on Triple H in 2016 which resulted in mad cheers for Reigns in one of the worst periods for him.
If the company was booked correctly, then no, she isn’t done. But at the same time, it’s WWE, putting a newer woman, against CHARLOTTE. Her odds are not great to say the least.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Nov 26, 2021 22:58:53 GMT -5
With how much WWE likes to make their faces look like chumps, it really makes me wonder if they even want their audience to leave their shows happy.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Nov 26, 2021 22:59:08 GMT -5
Rather than a debate of the semantics of wrestlers being done, I wanna reiterate that they had the heel champ say what a loser the face is on the mic, then when the face attacks they hit the face with a pie twice with like two minutes between shots and the face did absolutely nothing but cry, even as the heel stood there asking for a fight and left very slowly. OK, it's bad writing, but I don't WANT it to have killed her dead, why do I have to say that it did?Then...don't? Who is saying you have to?
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