Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Feb 13, 2022 17:05:51 GMT -5
Yeah, there were two disturbing things in this thread.
1) The amount of people who were just utterly dismissive of how badly this line was taken by people who had the most reason to relate it to their real world experiences.
2) The amount of people who were like "Oh, I dont get why you want faces to be goodie-goodies who can't clap back", as if "This crossed a line" means all faces must be polite and humble. Everyone here has lines they do not, in fact, want faces to cross.
It reminds me of the controversy Portal 2 had over a scene where GlaDOS made light of adoption, and in that case a) she was a villain, b) she was saying it in venomous spite to someone who had literally killed her, and c) said person likely wasn't actually adopted.
It may be that making light of incredibly traumatising things is something popular entertainment should steer the hell away from.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,365
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Post by markymark on Feb 13, 2022 17:19:49 GMT -5
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Feb 13, 2022 17:34:35 GMT -5
Maybe they have a non-human quota and told her to shape up so they could bring Danhausen in.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 13, 2022 18:00:59 GMT -5
Yeah, there were two disturbing things in this thread. 1) The amount of people who were just utterly dismissive of how badly this line was taken by people who had the most reason to relate it to their real world experiences. 2) The amount of people who were like "Oh, I dont get why you want faces to be goodie-goodies who can't clap back", as if "This crossed a line" means all faces must be polite and humble. Everyone here has lines they do not, in fact, want faces to cross. It reminds me of the controversy Portal 2 had over a scene where GlaDOS made light of adoption, and in that case a) she was a villain, b) she was saying it in venomous spite to someone who had literally killed her, and c) said person likely wasn't actually adopted. It may be that making light of incredibly traumatising things is something popular entertainment should steer the hell away from. I can say in my case, I wasn’t implying that people shouldn’t be upset about Statlander‘s line at all, especially if it’s something that affects them personally. When I went into how I felt a proper babyface should approach a problem, all I wanted to do was share part of my overall view of pro wrestling.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,303
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Post by The Ichi on Feb 13, 2022 18:21:12 GMT -5
I don't see a single person being dismissive about adoption.
But like, it's a fictional feud. It was said to one person who was using it to justify her actions, and wasn't made as a general statement. You have a right to take issue with it, I have a right to think it was awesome (because it was.
As for the alien thing, I don't think we were ever supposed to believe Statlander was actually an extraterrestrial being. It's intentionally her being goofy, same as Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 13, 2022 18:26:03 GMT -5
With a thread like this, no wonder FAN was given up for adoption.
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Dang!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,277
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Post by Dang! on Feb 13, 2022 20:47:23 GMT -5
That’s such a heel thing to say. That's what I said the moment I heard it.
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mystermystery
Dennis Stamp
Still in the White Hummer
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Post by mystermystery on Feb 13, 2022 22:37:58 GMT -5
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Feb 13, 2022 22:40:17 GMT -5
As Ichi has said, I don’t think anyone is dismissing adoption. And I do have sympathy for people who may have been triggered by it. Or had personal feelings over it. You have the right for your feelings.
But at the same time, it’s just a line. A line spoken by a character who was angry and frustrated at this woman has kept attacking her. And in character, the only reason Leyla would have even brought it up, was to “justify” her actions, which is also really shitty. Just because you were an orphan and was adopted, does not give anyone justification for being a bad person. In this feud, Leyla has earned no sympathy. So what Kris, and as I said before, she wasn’t saying adoption was bad, or that kids who are adopted are bad, she’s saying LEYLA is bad. And that is a big difference.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2022 22:50:22 GMT -5
It's pretty well known that TK does not like "Out there" gimmicks, so it doesn't surprise me. That's my only real worry about Danhausen. But, dude moves merch so I imagine TK is gonna make exceptions when it helps the bottom line.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 13, 2022 22:56:46 GMT -5
She needs to pass her Earth citizenship test first. I think that’s why they brought in Danhausen.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Feb 13, 2022 23:01:03 GMT -5
It's pretty well known that TK does not like "Out there" gimmicks, so it doesn't surprise me. That's my only real worry about Danhausen. But, dude moves merch so I imagine TK is gonna make exceptions when it helps the bottom line. And frankly, Danhausen can leave the "Tequila" dance stuff in the indies where it belongs. Also, Danhausen pretty clearly has a ceiling as any kind of serious wrestler. He's not there to have 25-minute epic main events with a dozen false finishes. His upside, when it comes strictly to card placement, is like one Dynamite or Battle of the Belts "once in a lifetime" title shot main event.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 13, 2022 23:27:23 GMT -5
The point of hiring Danhausen is so he can do his Danhausen stuff on your show. Unless there's some absolute legitimate can't-miss money idea sitting on the table that requires him to change the act, you don't touch it. We get enough of that in the New York territory.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 13, 2022 23:34:24 GMT -5
It's pretty well known that TK does not like "Out there" gimmicks, so it doesn't surprise me. That's my only real worry about Danhausen. But, dude moves merch so I imagine TK is gonna make exceptions when it helps the bottom line. Even Cornette loves Danhausen. I think the gimmick is pretty safe from meddling. Even if he doesn't act as zany in the ring as he did in the indies, there's plenty of opportunities in the AEW Cinematic Universe.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 13, 2022 23:56:38 GMT -5
It's pretty well known that TK does not like "Out there" gimmicks, so it doesn't surprise me. That's my only real worry about Danhausen. But, dude moves merch so I imagine TK is gonna make exceptions when it helps the bottom line. And frankly, Danhausen can leave the "Tequila" dance stuff in the indies where it belongs. Also, Danhausen pretty clearly has a ceiling as any kind of serious wrestler. He's not there to have 25-minute epic main events with a dozen false finishes. His upside, when it comes strictly to card placement, is like one Dynamite or Battle of the Belts "once in a lifetime" title shot main event. Ah so we're back to the same pole moving Orange Cassidy was at when he debuted too huh? "No long matches" "Leave the Indies Stuff on the Indies, it'll never work here" "He'll never get title shots" Like ad nauseum, it never fails. I'm honestly getting tired of people who think this shit can't work on mainstream TV, when all Danhausen has had to do is stand there, and he split a crowd vs JON MOXLEY. He's also not a bad worker, he's actually quite good if you watch his matches, so he may legitimately surprise some folks when he's healthy.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 13, 2022 23:58:39 GMT -5
I don't get this report at all given Statlander never really declared herself an alien on TV, the commentary have build up the space themes with her, and she acts a bit eccentric in ring what with the boop spot and such. I don't really see what there's much to do in terms of scaling back or changing, she SHOULD be more serious when it comes to a feud that is getting personal. Cassidy did the same thing, he didn't change his gimmick.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Feb 14, 2022 0:56:29 GMT -5
And frankly, Danhausen can leave the "Tequila" dance stuff in the indies where it belongs. Also, Danhausen pretty clearly has a ceiling as any kind of serious wrestler. He's not there to have 25-minute epic main events with a dozen false finishes. His upside, when it comes strictly to card placement, is like one Dynamite or Battle of the Belts "once in a lifetime" title shot main event. Ah so we're back to the same pole moving Orange Cassidy was at when he debuted too huh? "No long matches" "Leave the Indies Stuff on the Indies, it'll never work here" "He'll never get title shots" Like ad nauseum, it never fails. I'm honestly getting tired of people who think this shit can't work on mainstream TV, when all Danhausen has had to do is stand there, and he split a crowd vs JON MOXLEY. He's also not a bad worker, he's actually quite good if you watch his matches, so he may legitimately surprise some folks when he's healthy. Dude, DONOVAN DANHAUSEN has said there's a frigging ceiling to his gimmick and that he's not really that great of a pure worker. Why do you think he's worked so hard on the gimmick aspect? Was he doing "epic" matches in ROH? And I'm not even dissing the guy--this is taking AEW defensiveness to a new level. And this is coming off a different poster noting that, yes, Tony Khan clearly isn't all that high on the truly wacky in-ring stuff. He didn't like Joey Ryan even before the unpleasantness came out, and it's believed that he's not a big fan of Broken Matt Hardy, either. Note that--gasp--Orange Cassidy got rid of (or had taken from him) a lot of his goofier indy spots once he started wrestling regularly in AEW. Aside from the slow-motion kicks he pretty much works on the level. He's not doing slow-motion chop battles or other blatant reality-shattering like he was before. Is he better or worse for it? I'll leave that up to others to decide, but it's a fact that his work has changed.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 14, 2022 3:20:54 GMT -5
Ah so we're back to the same pole moving Orange Cassidy was at when he debuted too huh? "No long matches" "Leave the Indies Stuff on the Indies, it'll never work here" "He'll never get title shots" Like ad nauseum, it never fails. I'm honestly getting tired of people who think this shit can't work on mainstream TV, when all Danhausen has had to do is stand there, and he split a crowd vs JON MOXLEY. He's also not a bad worker, he's actually quite good if you watch his matches, so he may legitimately surprise some folks when he's healthy. Dude, DONOVAN DANHAUSEN has said there's a frigging ceiling to his gimmick and that he's not really that great of a pure worker. Why do you think he's worked so hard on the gimmick aspect? Was he doing "epic" matches in ROH? And I'm not even dissing the guy--this is taking AEW defensiveness to a new level. And this is coming off a different poster noting that, yes, Tony Khan clearly isn't all that high on the truly wacky in-ring stuff. He didn't like Joey Ryan even before the unpleasantness came out, and it's believed that he's not a big fan of Broken Matt Hardy, either. Note that--gasp--Orange Cassidy got rid of (or had taken from him) a lot of his goofier indy spots once he started wrestling regularly in AEW. Aside from the slow-motion kicks he pretty much works on the level. He's not doing slow-motion chop battles or other blatant reality-shattering like he was before. Is he better or worse for it? I'll leave that up to others to decide, but it's a fact that his work has changed. It really just depends on the match and what's inherently going on when it comes to Cassidy's spots. slow chops wouldn't be more world or reality breaking than his kicks, he's done the roll out of the way spot, he's done the lazy splashes, the one spot he hasn't really done is the Orange Juice mist, and well, he still did that for Mimosa Mayhem so it wasn't completely erased either. This isn't me "taking AEW defensiveness to some new level" either, frankly, I'm so tired of people going to that well or putting words in my mouth with what I'm trying to actually say. I was simply saying you really don't know what a wrestler is going to get or what their ceiling is, because a booker can make them a champion tomorrow. No one NEEDS Danhausen as a champion, but there is no denying he could get there even with a ceiling, a strange bedfellows tag champion, trios belts if they ever become a thing, etc. Im not expecting Danhausen to ever be world champion myself, I just dont count anything out. And people were moving those goalposts with Orange when he was signed, even some here. Joey Ryan's gimmick is much different than anything Danhausen would do, his gimmick's absurdity isn't even that large, the tequilla kicks aren't even reality breaking as a whole, they're just kicking a stunned wrestler in the face, hard, to the rhythm of the song, the teeth spot is also pretty funny in a sense that the joke is "There is no rule against using teeth as a weapon", it's both a funny spot and quite funny in its own logic because... yes, it's never been obvious there should be a rule for using teeth as a weapon, he's the first to ever really do it. As for Broken Matt? It was over in AEW, the issue is, there was no crowd to feed it, if he tries it again, even with Jeff, there's more meat to it because there's just more of an atmosphere to do it in, it was just badly timed and the Sammy feud went south. Khan has not ever been against what's over, he feeds into it, and doesn't really change much of anything to do it. I also never said Danhausen had EPIC matches, I just said he's a good worker, he does some unique moves, he has a unique body type and is taller than people expect, hence why I said he'd surprise some people I think, as a lot of people have actually never seen Danhausen wrestle, he's gotten over on the gimmick alone in a lot of respects, he's just not shit in ring by any means, and he'll now be surrounded by great veterans to make it all the better if need be. Anyway, I said it earlier but I never intended when making this thread for it to spiral out of control like this, I really regret making it at this point, I feel like we're just getting unnecessarily tense at one another, and now it's for shit that has absolutely nothing to do with the OP, and what was made with the intent of just having some fun on the board has really bottomed out fast. So really I'm just ending it here, tired of going around in circles or going in weird tangents, let's just drop it.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 14, 2022 4:07:24 GMT -5
It's pretty well known that TK does not like "Out there" gimmicks, so it doesn't surprise me. That's my only real worry about Danhausen. But, dude moves merch so I imagine TK is gonna make exceptions when it helps the bottom line. Meh, most of the time I think AEW is able to walk the tightrope on how serious their wackier characters can get. It’s almost always presented as a natural part of wrestling showmanship. Statlander can keep most of the alien aspects she already had because I never got the impression the company wanted her to be a “true alien”, I doubt it was meant to be taken literally. Acts like those are going to depend on the performers, if Danhausen is able to condition himself for longer bouts than he can move up cards as he gets over with the crowd. Orange’s kicks are just mind games so I don’t have an issue with those. I don’t know if I’d call them “world champions or bust”, but there’s been stranger gimmicks to headline major promotions.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 14, 2022 7:52:33 GMT -5
All I can think of now is this:
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