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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Apr 14, 2022 9:19:06 GMT -5
Kind of all of them really except the most horrible. I mean even in this thread it's like well so and so did this but hey,they didn't kill anyone. I mean wrestlers, especially back in the day, weren't the best people. Even a guy like Bret who is pretty universally respected was a huge adulterer and cheated on his wife all the time. If that guy was your neighbor and worked at the bank you probably wouldn't call them a great person. It's a different standard with wrestlers because so many were just such horrible people. A guy like New Jack gets a lot of passes for trying to literally kill someone in the ring. In a lot of ways being a fan means you have to give some of them a pass for being pretty rotten human beings. Keep in mind I say those two things while also claiming Bret Hart as my favorite wrestler ever and being thoroughly entertained by New Jack at different points. It just is what it is with most of these guys. And if you read what Bret's ex-wife wrote in her book. He raped her after telling her he wanted a divorce.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 14, 2022 9:19:38 GMT -5
Kind of all of them really except the most horrible. I mean even in this thread it's like well so and so did this but hey,they didn't kill anyone. I mean wrestlers, especially back in the day, weren't the best people. Even a guy like Bret who is pretty universally respected was a huge adulterer and cheated on his wife all the time. If that guy was your neighbor and worked at the bank you probably wouldn't call them a great person. It's a different standard with wrestlers because so many were just such horrible people. A guy like New Jack gets a lot of passes for trying to literally kill someone in the ring. In a lot of ways being a fan means you have to give some of them a pass for being pretty rotten human beings. Keep in mind I say those two things while also claiming Bret Hart as my favorite wrestler ever and being thoroughly entertained by New Jack at different points. It just is what it is with most of these guys. Thank you. NEW JACK. Legit hurt a lot of people, even worse too. But fondly remembered because ECW and because of his character. Moreso cause he's since passed away, and the easiest way to be forgiven is, well, to die. But...yeah. I guess we can just say "anyone who wasn't Bobby Eaton will be named in this thread."
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 14, 2022 9:20:54 GMT -5
It’s not the majority by any means but the fact that so many still cape for Benoit and try to make that “separate the performer from the person” argument is weird. Yes, and don't get me started on the "Kevin Sullivan did it!"/name your conspiracy theory types.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 14, 2022 9:24:27 GMT -5
The British Bulldogs (especially Dynamite Kid) seemed like legit bullies and douchbags, but somehow get a pass from some fans because of their work in Japan. I loved The British Bulldogs as a kid. When I grew up and heard about how they treated Matilda, I lost all respect for them. Oh yes. I think more people are coming around on Dynamite after hearing the stories, and the Benoit connection doesn't help. Animal abuse I will never let slide. (I HOPE the sleaze thread was wrong about the Von Erichs) Oh yeah. The VE, and here's the point, FRITZ INCLUDED, are fondly remembered.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 14, 2022 9:25:21 GMT -5
Yep. Yet he is now one of WWE's go-to legends, especially in the post-Hogangate times. I guess so long as you don't get caught saying something racist... Him and Warrior are "safer" because, well, they're dead, easier to brush stuff over them, and they're unlikely to do anything in future. Hardcore fans will know, but anything about them isn't going to be big news the PR people need to worry about. Hogan, you don't know if something's going to come out of his mouth next week. Yeah. Just seems odd that the people they picked as the new 80s legacy figure(s) are in ways no better than Hogan. Geez, what Warrior did say is right down there.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 14, 2022 9:26:08 GMT -5
Paul Heyman for the booking end and vision of ECW. Some people don't think about the bounced checks, etc.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 14, 2022 9:30:15 GMT -5
For my own contribution, Mae Young gets a pass for mugging guys in her younger years all because she played a horny octogenarian and took dangerous bumps in her second career. I believe I also heard someone on this forum mention she played Moolah's right-hand woman in all the shady stuff she supposedly did. As I said before, that is a sticky situation in general. None of us were there, and there's people on both sides. Anyway, I'll go another further on this, and while it's more "get a pass for being in horrible angles", how about how Mae Young was turned into a legacy figure for the women's division despite playing a horny octogenarian and being the comic relief on WWE shows for like a decade plus? I've given up on how to judge Moolah for that reason in particular. I still give props to Mae Young though for taking a Bubba Bomb through a table. Alot of fans don't know this, but Mae Young actually had a bigger impact on Women's wrestling. Personal issues aside, she was a pioneer in getting many women to wrestle(for better or worse), and I believe had an impact on breaking Moolah into the business(gotta do some more research though). That's why WWE is trying to honor her with all those tournaments and accolades.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 14, 2022 10:11:46 GMT -5
As I said before, that is a sticky situation in general. None of us were there, and there's people on both sides. Anyway, I'll go another further on this, and while it's more "get a pass for being in horrible angles", how about how Mae Young was turned into a legacy figure for the women's division despite playing a horny octogenarian and being the comic relief on WWE shows for like a decade plus? I've given up on how to judge Moolah for that reason in particular. I still give props to Mae Young though for taking a Bubba Bomb through a table. Alot of fans don't know this, but Mae Young actually had a bigger impact on Women's wrestling. Personal issues aside, she was a pioneer in getting many women to wrestle(for better or worse), and I believe had an impact on breaking Moolah into the business(gotta do some more research though). That's why WWE is trying to honor her with all those tournaments and accolades. Ain't that the way today's society is in general. Surrounded by tribalism so you don't know which side to take. I don't know if it's as severe as the guy whose YouTube comment I posted elsewhere (he says "only two people said guilty against 12 or so he could name"), but still. Yeah, a lot of what you said gets lost in the comedy act of the 2000s and on. That is why it seemed unusual for WWE to turn around and go to the original story.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 14, 2022 10:21:20 GMT -5
Brody's already been mentioned but I do believe the reason for the killing was Jose being assaulted by Brody in the 1970s WWWF. Brody brutalized Jose in the ring, because he could get away with it and Jose held on to that for years and he got away with the killing. If it hadn't been Jose, it surely would have been someone else and I do feel awful for him and his family but the guy lived by being awful to others and he ultimately died because of the way he acted.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Apr 14, 2022 10:41:19 GMT -5
Brody's already been mentioned but I do believe the reason for the killing was Jose being assaulted by Brody in the 1970s WWWF. Brody brutalized Jose in the ring, because he could get away with it and Jose held on to that for years and he got away with the killing. If it hadn't been Jose, it surely would have been someone else and I do feel awful for him and his family but the guy lived by being awful to others and he ultimately died because of the way he acted. There was also the talk of Brody buying into the territory and wanting to push Jose out. I’m sure he wasn’t happy about that either.
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Derk!
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Derk! on Apr 14, 2022 11:17:21 GMT -5
Oh, what shit is Sarah Logan into? I was wondering the same thing Basically, it was the whole "boogaloo" thing I've seen mentioned in these forums which is code for race war... I used to follow her on IG a long time ago, but stopped when she started calling people who complain about her hunting posts, the ever endearing term, "snowflakes".
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Apr 14, 2022 11:50:19 GMT -5
Savage is a big one. He's almost universally beloved but his actions towards Elizabeth were textbook spousal abuse. Imagine locking another human being in a room for hours at a time or getting angry at them for daring to talk to other people.
The Gorgeous George/Stephanie Bellars thing was pretty creepy with the age difference and the way he treated her like a possession too, even off-screen, forcing her to cut off contact with all her friends and basically controlling her every move.
I don't believe the Stephanie McMahon rumors but the amount of people over the years who do or joke about it is really disturbing. Let's say for a second it was true...what's funny about this guy taking advantage of an underage girl?
Simply wrestling wise, he also had some egomaniacal tendencies too which others would get called out for like when he demanded the TNA world title in 2004/05 despite only being able to "wrestle" for 20 seconds at the end of a tag match. One of the rare occasions when TNA management showed some balls and told him to stick it rather than bow down to the big name.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 14, 2022 13:13:23 GMT -5
In conclusion the vast majority of people who got involved with a business built around lying to people & scamming money off the top because most transactions were in cash are pretty scummy.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Apr 14, 2022 13:23:24 GMT -5
I loved The British Bulldogs as a kid. When I grew up and heard about how they treated Matilda, I lost all respect for them. Oh yes. I think more people are coming around on Dynamite after hearing the stories, and the Benoit connection doesn't help. Animal abuse I will never let slide. (I HOPE the sleaze thread was wrong about the Von Erichs) Oh yeah. The VE, and here's the point, FRITZ INCLUDED, are fondly remembered. I read Dynamite's book, and he comes off as oblivious to how anyone might not perceive his actions as all in good fun, or at least a matter of respect between professionals. Dude was going the "IT'S JUST A PRANK, BRO!" route like, 40 years early.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 14, 2022 13:35:49 GMT -5
Flair and Hogan both seem to be in that 50/50 territory. Randy Savage always seems to get a pass despite all the stories about how he treated Elizabeth. Every story I’ve heard about Punk says he’s a dick but he’s still held in high regard. Bruiser Brody was very problematic, but that is often overlooked because of the tragic and senseless nature of his death. mos of the people complaining about Punk are just pissy that he won't sign their autograph and doesn't want to be their friend
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Apr 14, 2022 13:39:08 GMT -5
Flair and Hogan both seem to be in that 50/50 territory. Randy Savage always seems to get a pass despite all the stories about how he treated Elizabeth. Every story I’ve heard about Punk says he’s a dick but he’s still held in high regard. Bruiser Brody was very problematic, but that is often overlooked because of the tragic and senseless nature of his death. mos of the people complaining about Punk are just pissy that he won't sign their autograph and doesn't want to be their friend That’s no doubt part of it, but it doesn’t seem to be just that.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 14, 2022 13:56:23 GMT -5
Undertaker is definitely in that category for me. He may be an iconic wrestling character, but the man behind it sounds like a real piece of garbage.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Apr 14, 2022 14:30:21 GMT -5
Arn Anderson is seen as like a wholesome old man but there were allegations against him I've rarely if ever seen mentioned over the years. It almost helps his cause that his old friend Flair gets all the attention. www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2008/06/sexual-allegations-against-arn-anderson-details-inside-508118/He was also fired by WWE for letting Alicia Fox go out and wrestle on a house show while intoxicated. She showed up in clearly no condition to perform but Anderson was the agent in charge and allowed her to go out there. That could have ended horribly for her or her opponent.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 14, 2022 14:47:04 GMT -5
Horrible human beings is a stretch, but anyone that worked stiff against people because they enjoyed it come to mind. Bulldogs, Steiners and Vader mostly come to mind.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 14, 2022 15:01:12 GMT -5
Horrible human beings is a stretch, but anyone that worked stiff against people because they enjoyed it come to mind. Bulldogs, Steiners and Vader mostly come to mind. The Steiners purposely dropped jobbers on their heads just for fun. How can they not qualify as horrible people? For that matter, why couldn't a more experience wrestler do that to them just to see how they would like it?
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