Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,087
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Apr 14, 2022 15:06:00 GMT -5
Horrible human beings is a stretch, but anyone that worked stiff against people because they enjoyed it come to mind. Bulldogs, Steiners and Vader mostly come to mind. The Steiners purposely dropped jobbers on their heads just for fun. How can they not qualify as horrible people? For that matter, why couldn't a more experience wrestler do that to them just to see how they would like it? As for why others couldn't... they were REALLY good amateur wrestlers an pretty damn big, that combo was hard to beat. Plus they, especially Scott, were clearly marked for big things, so don't want to mess with people the office likes.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 14, 2022 15:24:20 GMT -5
The Steiners purposely dropped jobbers on their heads just for fun. How can they not qualify as horrible people? For that matter, why couldn't a more experience wrestler do that to them just to see how they would like it? As for why others couldn't... they were REALLY good amateur wrestlers an pretty damn big, that combo was hard to beat. Plus they, especially Scott, were clearly marked for big things, so don't want to mess with people the office likes. The good amateur part could be worked around, which is partly why I say an experienced wrestler would be qualified to do it. Just purposely botch a piledriver(or something that involves landing on the head/neck area, and try to make it look accidental) on an unexpecting Steiner, would they be able to counter that in time? As far as wheather or not being fired goes, back then, a wrestler could defect to WWF. If you're going tell me no wrestling company wants to hire a guy that would go into business for himself(even if it was justified), weren't they doing this in their first WCW stint BEFORE WWF hired them? I can understand a rookie not wanting to risk his future doing it, but what if it was somebody higher in the pecking order who did it, preferably of similar size to them?
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Post by wildojinx on Apr 14, 2022 15:46:30 GMT -5
Horrible human beings is a stretch, but anyone that worked stiff against people because they enjoyed it come to mind. Bulldogs, Steiners and Vader mostly come to mind. And yet, Vader apparently wept when he found out that he ended the career of jobber Joe Thurman.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Apr 14, 2022 15:53:03 GMT -5
Mick Foley is by no means a horrible human being but a lot of his interactions with female talent are pretty cringe-inducing. The stuff with Melina on the 00’s especially so but even now his Twitter posts to the current roster will sound more like some pervy fanboy trolling for attention.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Apr 14, 2022 16:23:46 GMT -5
AJ Styles is a homophobe and is FAR smarter than people give him credit for being. People like to handwave his behaviour away as being that of some goofy, smiling farmboy turned wrestling genius who fell off the back of a truck a week ago so doesn't know any better, but he's been wrestling in major promotions, travelling the world and living and working around a diverse array of people since WCW. Whenever he's signed to a major promotion, he keeps the mask firmly on, he knows calling people homophobic slurs won't fly, but he'll use them like they're going out of fashion when working indies. People know who he is, but he wrestles good and smiles a bunch, so he gets nothing but praise. That mask is going to be thrown aside entirely when he retires and I don't think many of his fans will like what they see.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 14, 2022 16:31:31 GMT -5
AJ Styles is a homophobe and is FAR smarter than people give him credit for being. People like to handwave his behaviour away as being that of some goofy, smiling farmboy turned wrestling genius who fell off the back of a truck a week ago so doesn't know any better, but he's been wrestling in major promotions, travelling the world and living and working around a diverse array of people since WCW. Whenever he's signed to a major promotion, he keeps the mask firmly on, he knows calling people homophobic slurs won't fly, but he'll use them like they're going out of fashion when working indies. People know who he is, but he wrestles good and smiles a bunch, so he gets nothing but praise. That mask is going to be thrown aside entirely when he retires and I don't think many of his fans will like what they see. Being in WWE for 6 years now, were there any reports on how what his interactions were like with Pat Patterson or Darren Young?
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Post by crowley1986 on Apr 14, 2022 16:32:41 GMT -5
Mick Foley is by no means a horrible human being but a lot of his interactions with female talent are pretty cringe-inducing. The stuff with Melina on the 00’s especially so but even now his Twitter posts to the current roster will sound more like some pervy fanboy trolling for attention. Meltz got crapped on for making this point, he's right to be fair..
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 14, 2022 16:35:03 GMT -5
Mick Foley is by no means a horrible human being but a lot of his interactions with female talent are pretty cringe-inducing. The stuff with Melina on the 00’s especially so but even now his Twitter posts to the current roster will sound more like some pervy fanboy trolling for attention. I've posted it on here before-the message board "Foley is Crud" He has gotten better the last few years but like 2010-2015 era Foley was pretty awful at meet and greets. The whole post started because he downgraded to a coach from first class flight and pocketed the difference the promoter paid and refused to mention the promoters indy promotion because he was hoping WWE would ask him back. 50 pages later, people were posting their awful experience with Foley at autograph signings. He is widely regarded as a nice guy and I do think he was nicer years ago and has gotten nice again but there was a time he was just as crappy as Greg Valentine, Abdullah and others on the show circuit. I also do think Flair had it right with the "glorified stuntman" quote but because Flair can't say that to his face, of course he backtracked.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 14, 2022 16:44:07 GMT -5
With regards to Vader and working stiff with people, the story I heard was that it wasn't that he liked roughing people up, he just learnt to work that way and didn't know any better. Brad Rheingans wasn't exactly gentle with him, and a few people he worked with early on in the AWA were stiff with him and he thought that was just how it was.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 14, 2022 16:45:44 GMT -5
Ron Simmons doesn't get nearly as much flak as Bradshaw, does he? He was just as big on taking liberties with guys to teach them a lesson in respect.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 14, 2022 16:48:13 GMT -5
Arn Anderson is seen as like a wholesome old man but there were allegations against him I've rarely if ever seen mentioned over the years. It almost helps his cause that his old friend Flair gets all the attention. www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2008/06/sexual-allegations-against-arn-anderson-details-inside-508118/He was also fired by WWE for letting Alicia Fox go out and wrestle on a house show while intoxicated. She showed up in clearly no condition to perform but Anderson was the agent in charge and allowed her to go out there. That could have ended horribly for her or her opponent. Ring of Hell is not really a trustworthy source. It's mostly either anecdotal at best or completely made up at worst. Meltzer spent like an entire newsletter debunking it.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 14, 2022 16:48:58 GMT -5
Four pages and I'm surprised Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka wasn't brought up. Maybe it's because he was never convicted and his girlfriend's death was ruled as an accident, but Snuka is still regarded as a legend by fans. Maybe it's by casuals who never saw a dirt sheet in their lives or old school fans bitten by the nostalgia bug, but even if Nancy Agentino's death was in fact an accident, it didn't change the fact that he was an abusive piece of shit boyfriend.
Again, because he was never convicted, he narrowly avoids the Benoit treatment by both WWE and fans.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 14, 2022 16:51:25 GMT -5
Flair and Hogan both seem to be in that 50/50 territory. Randy Savage always seems to get a pass despite all the stories about how he treated Elizabeth. Every story I’ve heard about Punk says he’s a dick but he’s still held in high regard. Bruiser Brody was very problematic, but that is often overlooked because of the tragic and senseless nature of his death. mos of the people complaining about Punk are just pissy that he won't sign their autograph and doesn't want to be their friend Exactly. When I clown on Punk, it’s on his persona, just me being a mark. Phil Brooks to me seems like a blunt but ultimately decent and smart guy.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 14, 2022 17:22:57 GMT -5
Horrible human beings is a stretch, but anyone that worked stiff against people because they enjoyed it come to mind. Bulldogs, Steiners and Vader mostly come to mind. And yet, Vader apparently wept when he found out that he ended the career of jobber Joe Thurman. Vader is an odd example. I have heard countless stories of people like the Bulldogs and Steiners being stiff with specific people, mainly those who wouldn't try and give a receipt and/or had no backstage power. I've never heard of Vader bullying anyone, just that he was ungodly stiff with everybody he worked. AJ Styles is a homophobe and is FAR smarter than people give him credit for being. People like to handwave his behaviour away as being that of some goofy, smiling farmboy turned wrestling genius who fell off the back of a truck a week ago so doesn't know any better, but he's been wrestling in major promotions, travelling the world and living and working around a diverse array of people since WCW. Whenever he's signed to a major promotion, he keeps the mask firmly on, he knows calling people homophobic slurs won't fly, but he'll use them like they're going out of fashion when working indies. People know who he is, but he wrestles good and smiles a bunch, so he gets nothing but praise. That mask is going to be thrown aside entirely when he retires and I don't think many of his fans will like what they see. I defended him for years over the 'gay community??' thing because I just thought he was caught off guard by the question. Then I saw a bunch of videos of him calling people f*****s for a joke, and well, yeah.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 14, 2022 17:23:48 GMT -5
Ron Simmons doesn't get nearly as much flak as Bradshaw, does he? He was just as big on taking liberties with guys to teach them a lesson in respect. Everytime I bring it up I'm flamed. I bring up the intentional injury he inflicted on Ahmed Johnson but people flame me. Ron says it was a receipt for Ahmed injuring him yet they never had a match prior to Ron coming into WWF and kicking Ahmed's kidneys into oblivion. Ron's a liar. Ahmed was never "injury prone" until Ron got a hold of him. People give Ron a pass because he's a veteran and because, like Piper/black face/Mr. T racism, he's been super nice (like "the nicest person I've ever met") at autograph signings. Bradshaw's assault on Public Enemy was worse than Ron's but both guys assault were just that, assaults. Bradshaw's was attempted man slaughter at the least but both guys had a part in potentially killing Public Enemy if it had gone any worse. Ron had one of the guys in a dominator that got so close to breaking their neck (I think Rocco) that I think it was by pure luck that the guy didn't get paralyzed. I have no doubt if Rocco or Johnny got paralyzed, Ron would make a "this business" or "loyalty" excuse. Meanwhile, a kind guy like D'Lo lives with the hell of an accident. But Ron's is a veteran and he signs autographs and is personable, so all good with the fans. And Ahmed didn't pay his dues, he lacked worked rate and didn't give good promos.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Apr 14, 2022 18:07:28 GMT -5
And yet, Vader apparently wept when he found out that he ended the career of jobber Joe Thurman. Vader is an odd example. I have heard countless stories of people like the Bulldogs and Steiners being stiff with specific people, mainly those who wouldn't try and give a receipt and/or had no backstage power. I've never heard of Vader bullying anyone, just that he was ungodly stiff with everybody he worked. AJ Styles is a homophobe and is FAR smarter than people give him credit for being. People like to handwave his behaviour away as being that of some goofy, smiling farmboy turned wrestling genius who fell off the back of a truck a week ago so doesn't know any better, but he's been wrestling in major promotions, travelling the world and living and working around a diverse array of people since WCW. Whenever he's signed to a major promotion, he keeps the mask firmly on, he knows calling people homophobic slurs won't fly, but he'll use them like they're going out of fashion when working indies. People know who he is, but he wrestles good and smiles a bunch, so he gets nothing but praise. That mask is going to be thrown aside entirely when he retires and I don't think many of his fans will like what they see. I defended him for years over the 'gay community??' thing because I just thought he was caught off guard by the question. Then I saw a bunch of videos of him calling people f*****s for a joke, and well, yeah. He was also cutting promos about how *homophobic slur* his opponents look during his post-TNA indie run, right until the start of the WWE run, and even under the WWE umbrella he appeared as a guest on a notoriously homophobic bully's 'comedy' show. AJ Styles does not swear, he doesn't like people swearing around him, yet he has zero issues throwing arounnd homophobic slurs, that says a lot about how he sees the world, really.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 18:10:26 GMT -5
f*** Jimmy Uso.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,979
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Apr 14, 2022 18:23:12 GMT -5
AJ Styles is a homophobe and is FAR smarter than people give him credit for being. People like to handwave his behaviour away as being that of some goofy, smiling farmboy turned wrestling genius who fell off the back of a truck a week ago so doesn't know any better, but he's been wrestling in major promotions, travelling the world and living and working around a diverse array of people since WCW. Whenever he's signed to a major promotion, he keeps the mask firmly on, he knows calling people homophobic slurs won't fly, but he'll use them like they're going out of fashion when working indies. People know who he is, but he wrestles good and smiles a bunch, so he gets nothing but praise. That mask is going to be thrown aside entirely when he retires and I don't think many of his fans will like what they see. If you’ve ever heard AJ talk about his religious beliefs, it explains a lot.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Apr 14, 2022 18:41:00 GMT -5
For me, I can easily separate the person from the wrestler. Kane the burn victim and trauma survivor is not an anti mask libertarian, Hulk Hogan the vitamins and prayer champion has not said racist things or protected his son from chriminal charges, Chris Benoit the wrestler is not a murderer. Glenn Jacobs is, Terry Bolea has, Chris Benoit was.
I can just as easily understand those that disagree with doing so. Wrestlers are fascinating, because they portray characters sometimes with their real name, that are just as often amplifications of their real selves as not. Ric Flair is probably the best example of this, he seems to essentially be himself just turned up a little.
This is further made confusing when as their character, wrestlers will do things like cause intentional harm. Where does the wrestler end and the character begin? Do wrestlers like Ric Flair even have a separate and distinct character? Can the wrestler vs character argument be conveniently stretched to cover every bad thing ever done by a wrestler?
I think wrestling and wrestlers is unique from any other entertainment medium or performer in that regard. I can easily separate Captain Kirk from William Shatner, there is no conflict. Michael Keaton is not actually Batman.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Apr 14, 2022 18:53:37 GMT -5
For me, I can easily separate the person from the wrestler. Kane the burn victim and trauma survivor is not an anti mask libertarian, Hulk Hogan the vitamins and prayer champion has not said racist things or protected his son from chriminal charges, Chris Benoit the wrestler is not a murderer. Glenn Jacobs is, Terry Bolea has, Chris Benoit was. I can just as easily understand those that disagree with doing so. Wrestlers are fascinating, because they portray characters sometimes with their real name, that are just as often amplifications of their real selves as not. Ric Flair is probably the best example of this, he seems to essentially be himself just turned up a little. This is further made confusing when as their character, wrestlers will do things like cause intentional harm. Where does the wrestler end and the character begin? Do wrestlers like Ric Flair even have a separate and distinct character? Can the wrestler vs character argument be conveniently stretched to cover every bad thing ever done by a wrestler? I think wrestling and wrestlers is unique from any other entertainment medium or performer in that regard. I can easily separate Captain Kirk from William Shatner, there is no conflict. Michael Keaton is not actually Batman. Would you not feel kind of strange watching a Jimmy Saville program now?
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