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Post by Limity (BLM) on Apr 14, 2022 19:05:48 GMT -5
For me, I can easily separate the person from the wrestler. Kane the burn victim and trauma survivor is not an anti mask libertarian, Hulk Hogan the vitamins and prayer champion has not said racist things or protected his son from chriminal charges, Chris Benoit the wrestler is not a murderer. Glenn Jacobs is, Terry Bolea has, Chris Benoit was. I can just as easily understand those that disagree with doing so. Wrestlers are fascinating, because they portray characters sometimes with their real name, that are just as often amplifications of their real selves as not. Ric Flair is probably the best example of this, he seems to essentially be himself just turned up a little. This is further made confusing when as their character, wrestlers will do things like cause intentional harm. Where does the wrestler end and the character begin? Do wrestlers like Ric Flair even have a separate and distinct character? Can the wrestler vs character argument be conveniently stretched to cover every bad thing ever done by a wrestler? I think wrestling and wrestlers is unique from any other entertainment medium or performer in that regard. I can easily separate Captain Kirk from William Shatner, there is no conflict. Michael Keaton is not actually Batman. Would you not feel like of strange watching a Jimmy Saville program now? I don't know who that is?
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 14, 2022 19:14:30 GMT -5
AJ Styles is a homophobe and is FAR smarter than people give him credit for being. People like to handwave his behaviour away as being that of some goofy, smiling farmboy turned wrestling genius who fell off the back of a truck a week ago so doesn't know any better, but he's been wrestling in major promotions, travelling the world and living and working around a diverse array of people since WCW. Whenever he's signed to a major promotion, he keeps the mask firmly on, he knows calling people homophobic slurs won't fly, but he'll use them like they're going out of fashion when working indies. People know who he is, but he wrestles good and smiles a bunch, so he gets nothing but praise. That mask is going to be thrown aside entirely when he retires and I don't think many of his fans will like what they see. If you’ve ever heard AJ talk about his religious beliefs, it explains a lot. Just my opinion but if it turned out he really was a flat earther until Bryan Danielson and Randy Orton started making fun of him over it I wouldn't be surprised
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 14, 2022 19:16:39 GMT -5
Would you not feel like of strange watching a Jimmy Saville program now? I don't know who that is? He was a famous British television presenter who had a shit tonne of tv shows over the years and was thought of as a delightful eccentric. About a year after he died it turned out he was perhaps the biggest serial pedophile in the history of the UK.
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The Blue Nova
Don Corleone
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 1,395
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Post by The Blue Nova on Apr 14, 2022 19:53:43 GMT -5
Undertaker for sure... He acts like his era was this great glorious time.. When wrestlers would roofie and assault females and haze others .
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,013
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Post by nate5054 on Apr 14, 2022 20:31:59 GMT -5
Andre the Giant comes to mind. Seems like half the stories you hear about him are either him taking liberties with guys he didn't like and roughing them up or his hatred for any other big guys and bullying them. Maybe not the worst guy, but seems like he was a douche Yeah, the STWW episode on him was hilarious. Just stories of him acting like a jerk, but then Bruce saying "he had a heart of gold."
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,013
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Post by nate5054 on Apr 14, 2022 20:39:45 GMT -5
For me, I can easily separate the person from the wrestler. Kane the burn victim and trauma survivor is not an anti mask libertarian, Hulk Hogan the vitamins and prayer champion has not said racist things or protected his son from chriminal charges, Chris Benoit the wrestler is not a murderer. Glenn Jacobs is, Terry Bolea has, Chris Benoit was. I can just as easily understand those that disagree with doing so. Wrestlers are fascinating, because they portray characters sometimes with their real name, that are just as often amplifications of their real selves as not. Ric Flair is probably the best example of this, he seems to essentially be himself just turned up a little. This is further made confusing when as their character, wrestlers will do things like cause intentional harm. Where does the wrestler end and the character begin? Do wrestlers like Ric Flair even have a separate and distinct character? Can the wrestler vs character argument be conveniently stretched to cover every bad thing ever done by a wrestler? I think wrestling and wrestlers is unique from any other entertainment medium or performer in that regard. I can easily separate Captain Kirk from William Shatner, there is no conflict. Michael Keaton is not actually Batman. Would you not feel kind of strange watching a Jimmy Saville program now? I had never heard of him (he was never big in the States, or if he was it wasn't from the 80s on), but just saw the Netflix doc on him. Holy f***... That's about all I can say
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Apr 14, 2022 21:08:29 GMT -5
Four pages and I'm surprised Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka wasn't brought up. Maybe it's because he was never convicted and his girlfriend's death was ruled as an accident, but Snuka is still regarded as a legend by fans. Maybe it's by casuals who never saw a dirt sheet in their lives or old school fans bitten by the nostalgia bug, but even if Nancy Agentino's death was in fact an accident, it didn't change the fact that he was an abusive piece of shit boyfriend. Again, because he was never convicted, he narrowly avoids the Benoit treatment by both WWE and fans. WWE doesn’t list him in the Hall of Fame anymore and the tribute video they played for him got booed when they cut back to the live crowd. He got a pass for a long time but the charges coming back up before his passing seems to have revoked it.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,127
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Post by tafkaga on Apr 14, 2022 21:15:05 GMT -5
All of them except maybe Benoit.
I mean, even me personally, I don't really care what utter shitholes these dudes are when I watch wrestling, anymore than I will investigate the actors in a movie to see if they've said or done anything I don't like. To me they are characters on a television show.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 14, 2022 21:16:13 GMT -5
I don't know who that is? He was a famous British television presenter who had a shit tonne of tv shows over the years and was thought of as a delightful eccentric. About a year after he died it turned out he was perhaps the biggest serial pedophile in the history of the UK. From the outside here in America It also sounds like it was a massive open secret.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,131
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 14, 2022 21:21:52 GMT -5
He was a famous British television presenter who had a shit tonne of tv shows over the years and was thought of as a delightful eccentric. About a year after he died it turned out he was perhaps the biggest serial pedophile in the history of the UK. From the outside of America It also sounds like it was a massive open secret. Right, it led to Operation Yewtree in the wake of it, where a bunch of other performers were investigated where allegations had been slept on for decades like they were with Savile. I know it was controversial, though, how it was carried out, so I couldn't speak to its success.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 14, 2022 21:28:09 GMT -5
Four pages and I'm surprised Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka wasn't brought up. Maybe it's because he was never convicted and his girlfriend's death was ruled as an accident, but Snuka is still regarded as a legend by fans. Maybe it's by casuals who never saw a dirt sheet in their lives or old school fans bitten by the nostalgia bug, but even if Nancy Agentino's death was in fact an accident, it didn't change the fact that he was an abusive piece of shit boyfriend. Again, because he was never convicted, he narrowly avoids the Benoit treatment by both WWE and fans. Well I think more and more fans are realizing this, through DSOTR and others. I know the OSW bunch get disgusted whenever he turned up on 80s PPVs.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 14, 2022 21:47:48 GMT -5
How about Jesse Ventura?
Without getting too deep into Those Topics, he has the 9/11 inside job conspiracy theories.
Not wrong about his feelings about the two major parties though.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,989
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Post by chazraps on Apr 14, 2022 21:56:14 GMT -5
How about Jesse Ventura? Without getting too deep into Those Topics, he has the 9/11 inside job conspiracy theories. Not wrong about his feelings about the two major parties though. Let me stop you right there. Jesse's conspiracy beliefs never once veered into the "wow, you're horrible" territory. He fell out of favor with the greater conspiracy community in 2012 when he spoke up AGAINST the Sandy Hook conspiracies. He's never veered into the super fringe modern conspiracy landscape. Yes, he had a show called 'Conspiracy Theory' at the start of the decade, but those were all JFK assassination / humanzees type conspiracies that never really harmed anyone. Even with the 9/11 stuff, he didn't take the dog-whistle approach so many of them have. I think "9/11 truth" on the whole without exception is all hogwash and balderdash, but there's different sects of thought and Jesse's fell into the comparatively more innocuous side and not the "Jewish phone call" territory.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,989
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Post by chazraps on Apr 14, 2022 21:59:02 GMT -5
Mick Foley is by no means a horrible human being but a lot of his interactions with female talent are pretty cringe-inducing. The stuff with Melina on the 00’s especially so but even now his Twitter posts to the current roster will sound more like some pervy fanboy trolling for attention. Meltz got crapped on for making this point, he's right to be fair.. Meltz has never, ever known how to speak to or about women, so that's why he's gotten rightfully ridiculed for attempting to chastise Foley on the topic. What are some examples of the Foley tweets/interactions? I recall a lot of the blowback being overblown as Foley was just earnestly trying to shine a light on the women when nobody else really was.
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knsffa
Team Rocket
Missed This Place and People
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Post by knsffa on Apr 14, 2022 22:16:00 GMT -5
Raquel Gonzalez seems to get a pass for having 'a sexy back'. Lots of stuff in the past about her instagram stories, views and persons she supports. Some of the persons who have noted things seem trustworthy, but I'll admit I've not seen every detail myself so in a way, I feel I should not be certain. But if she is problematic it seems she gets a pass. She is with Braun who is a bit whack. Oddly enough considering one of the persons she has worked closely with for over 2 years (Dakota) is called a genuine good person and others she's friends with seem legit good (Bianca, Rhea) ... one would think maybe they rubbed off on her a bit in a positive way?
Maybe this is a good place to learn more if people can provide or know how she is problematic.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 22:30:07 GMT -5
All of them except maybe Benoit. I mean, even me personally, I don't really care what utter shitholes these dudes are when I watch wrestling, anymore than I will investigate the actors in a movie to see if they've said or done anything I don't like. To me they are characters on a television show. That's where I'm at with it, because if I wasn't, I couldn't enjoy '80s wrestling at all. I've made peace long ago with the fact that most of these people were uneducated, backwoods meatheads who decided they could best make a living getting hit in the head, and lived in a bubble where they were separated from all of society except for a handful of crooked carnies. I'm not surprised when their opinions are garbage.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 15, 2022 7:22:27 GMT -5
How about Jesse Ventura? Without getting too deep into Those Topics, he has the 9/11 inside job conspiracy theories. Not wrong about his feelings about the two major parties though. Let me stop you right there. Jesse's conspiracy beliefs never once veered into the "wow, you're horrible" territory. He fell out of favor with the greater conspiracy community in 2012 when he spoke up AGAINST the Sandy Hook conspiracies. He's never veered into the super fringe modern conspiracy landscape. Yes, he had a show called 'Conspiracy Theory' at the start of the decade, but those were all JFK assassination / humanzees type conspiracies that never really harmed anyone. Even with the 9/11 stuff, he didn't take the dog-whistle approach so many of them have. I think "9/11 truth" on the whole without exception is all hogwash and balderdash, but there's different sects of thought and Jesse's fell into the comparatively more innocuous side and not the "Jewish phone call" territory. ... Humanzees?
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,490
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Apr 15, 2022 8:02:15 GMT -5
Let me stop you right there. Jesse's conspiracy beliefs never once veered into the "wow, you're horrible" territory. He fell out of favor with the greater conspiracy community in 2012 when he spoke up AGAINST the Sandy Hook conspiracies. He's never veered into the super fringe modern conspiracy landscape. Yes, he had a show called 'Conspiracy Theory' at the start of the decade, but those were all JFK assassination / humanzees type conspiracies that never really harmed anyone. Even with the 9/11 stuff, he didn't take the dog-whistle approach so many of them have. I think "9/11 truth" on the whole without exception is all hogwash and balderdash, but there's different sects of thought and Jesse's fell into the comparatively more innocuous side and not the "Jewish phone call" territory. ... Humanzees? A type of mix breed between humans and chimps.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Apr 15, 2022 8:11:23 GMT -5
Meltz got crapped on for making this point, he's right to be fair.. Meltz has never, ever known how to speak to or about women, so that's why he's gotten rightfully ridiculed for attempting to chastise Foley on the topic. What are some examples of the Foley tweets/interactions? I recall a lot of the blowback being overblown as Foley was just earnestly trying to shine a light on the women when nobody else really was. A lot of the women have fun back and forths on Twitter, like Trish has been having little mini-feuds with Becky and Bayley. Mick has a tendency to reply to all of these in a way that’s more “kind of creepy fan” than “respected wrestling legend”. The tweets themselves aren’t vulgar or anything, it’s more like he’s desperately seeking attention from the women. Again, it’s nowhere near the top of the list of scummy wrestling things but it happens enough that it’s not the greatest look for Mick.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 15, 2022 9:15:44 GMT -5
Four pages and I'm surprised Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka wasn't brought up. Maybe it's because he was never convicted and his girlfriend's death was ruled as an accident, but Snuka is still regarded as a legend by fans. Maybe it's by casuals who never saw a dirt sheet in their lives or old school fans bitten by the nostalgia bug, but even if Nancy Agentino's death was in fact an accident, it didn't change the fact that he was an abusive piece of shit boyfriend. Again, because he was never convicted, he narrowly avoids the Benoit treatment by both WWE and fans. WWE doesn’t list him in the Hall of Fame anymore and the tribute video they played for him got booed when they cut back to the live crowd. He got a pass for a long time but the charges coming back up before his passing seems to have revoked it. After doing a quick search on their official website, Snuka's Hall of Fame profile has been taken off. Has there ever been an official announcement of wheather or not he's still in it? You can however find his matches on the website.... watch.wwe.com/search?q=Jimmy%20SnukaThe same dosen't work for Benoit though.
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