MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,978
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Apr 14, 2022 23:37:05 GMT -5
From what I understand she retweeted a friend’s post without reading it first. I’ve done the same thing, and gotten some heat over it. Over something as serious as Sandy Hook where several children were murdered? Mine was over a polarizing global issue: the Israel-Palestine conflict.
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Post by Andee9001 on Apr 14, 2022 23:43:41 GMT -5
And Enzo I'd definitely say. First he was found innocent, let's get that out of the way. No he wasn't. The prosecution ran out of money. That's by no means being found "innocent." Didn't his accuser send txt messages to her friend that read like she was gloating about sleeping with him or was that proven fake?
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Post by eudypfohl on Apr 15, 2022 2:06:49 GMT -5
Ultimate Warrior
He had a rough childhood, made something of himself. Was going to become I believe a chiropractor and did bodybuilding...got into wrestling just to make some $ on the side. Created a legendary character, has absolutely no background, knowledge, or understanding of the world of wrestling (or athletics) but manages to carve out a place for himself. Ends up in the WWF, His look, energy, and character resonate with the fans so they push him to the moon. Everyone around him is jealous and spiteful towards him because this guy who never had any desire to be involved in wrestling is now more over than they will ever be
He never had any reverence or love of the business simply because he saw how destructive and dangerous it was. He hated the traveling, he hated how it ruined lives and how cutthroat it was. He just wanted to get his while he could (big main event $) be wise with it...and get out of and do what he wanted to do.
Of course he could be a jerk, a huge jerk, and a hypocrite. But he also knew exactly what he wanted to get out of his run, his character....he did that, and he lived the life he wanted with his wife and kids. He never stopped trying to better himself. He was a flawed man but never even close to the irrational asshole nutcase he was slandered as by many. He knew himself that the business wasnt for him even at the height of his popularity, and I think he tried to do what was necessary so that he wouldnt have to end up like Flair. Be smart with your money, be there for your wife and children
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,741
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 15, 2022 2:54:04 GMT -5
Ultimate Warrior He had a rough childhood, made something of himself. Was going to become I believe a chiropractor and did bodybuilding...got into wrestling just to make some $ on the side. Created a legendary character, has absolutely no background, knowledge, or understanding of the world of wrestling (or athletics) but manages to carve out a place for himself. Ends up in the WWF, His look, energy, and character resonate with the fans so they push him to the moon. Everyone around him is jealous and spiteful towards him because this guy who never had any desire to be involved in wrestling is now more over than they will ever be He never had any reverence or love of the business simply because he saw how destructive and dangerous it was. He hated the traveling, he hated how it ruined lives and how cutthroat it was. He just wanted to get his while he could (big main event $) be wise with it...and get out of and do what he wanted to do. Of course he could be a jerk, a huge jerk, and a hypocrite. But he also knew exactly what he wanted to get out of his run, his character....he did that, and he lived the life he wanted with his wife and kids. He never stopped trying to better himself. He was a flawed man but never even close to the irrational asshole nutcase he was slandered as by many. He knew himself that the business wasnt for him even at the height of his popularity, and I think he tried to do what was necessary so that he wouldnt have to end up like Flair. Be smart with your money, be there for your wife and children I agree with most of your writeup but telling someone "queering doesn't make the world work" and that line of really weird and questionable Warrior comics does make him an irrational asshole
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,989
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Post by chazraps on Apr 15, 2022 4:15:22 GMT -5
Ultimate Warrior He had a rough childhood, made something of himself. Was going to become I believe a chiropractor and did bodybuilding...got into wrestling just to make some $ on the side. Created a legendary character, has absolutely no background, knowledge, or understanding of the world of wrestling (or athletics) but manages to carve out a place for himself. Ends up in the WWF, His look, energy, and character resonate with the fans so they push him to the moon. Everyone around him is jealous and spiteful towards him because this guy who never had any desire to be involved in wrestling is now more over than they will ever be He never had any reverence or love of the business simply because he saw how destructive and dangerous it was. He hated the traveling, he hated how it ruined lives and how cutthroat it was. He just wanted to get his while he could (big main event $) be wise with it...and get out of and do what he wanted to do. Of course he could be a jerk, a huge jerk, and a hypocrite. But he also knew exactly what he wanted to get out of his run, his character....he did that, and he lived the life he wanted with his wife and kids. He never stopped trying to better himself. He was a flawed man but never even close to the irrational asshole nutcase he was slandered as by many. He knew himself that the business wasnt for him even at the height of his popularity, and I think he tried to do what was necessary so that he wouldnt have to end up like Flair. Be smart with your money, be there for your wife and children He f***ed over a lot of people though. Like, when Vegas finally had a thriving mid-90s indy (NWC) at a time when the business in general was doing terrible, he convinced the promoter to make him a partner and then proceeded to steal from it and destroy it. That's actively irredeemable beyond "this guy is tough to work with." And then you have how many fans he f***ed over up through the last year of his life by lying to them about the history of different replica belts. If you sell at least four different people the belt that you're claiming was *the* belt you won at Wrestlemania VI - and the moment of when you're selling it to them is your supposed "changed" twilight years - you're a piece of shit. Also, if you ever read his essays or listened to his speeches, if anyone is to blame for him sounding like an "irrational asshole nutcase" it's the man himself who thought posting all that shit for years was a good idea.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,989
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Post by chazraps on Apr 15, 2022 4:19:49 GMT -5
No he wasn't. The prosecution ran out of money. That's by no means being found "innocent." Didn't his accuser send txt messages to her friend that read like she was gloating about sleeping with him or was that proven fake? The texts were real BUT taken out of context in a group chat and edited. Her other texts from the same time to friends show her coming to terms with what happened and then she reported it four days later.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,129
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 15, 2022 4:47:14 GMT -5
While beside the point, I do think it's kind of ridiculous when people cite Enzo as someone who was unfairly terminated sometimes when, regardless of if the accusations were true, he still knowingly kept WWE in the dark about an ongoing rape investigation against him (probably since it also included heavy evidence of drug use on his part WWE would have also been obliged to punish him over). It's one of the most astonishingly stupid things I've seen a wrestler do, and I regularly check up on the CYN thread.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 15, 2022 5:18:45 GMT -5
And Enzo I'd definitely say. First he was found innocent, let's get that out of the way. No he wasn't. The prosecution ran out of money. That's by no means being found "innocent." Really? Weren't the charges dropped? I forget how it worked.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 15, 2022 6:22:53 GMT -5
Jericho Forsure. He might be a bit egotistical, Douchey and air headed sometimes but I think the guy has a good heart. He’s always willing to put people over and donate to some of the right causes I dont think Jericho is a bad guy. I think at times (especially early in the pandemic) he tries/tried to latch on to hot topics at the time and would just make very uninformed opinions. Enzo and Cass both are good shouts. Cass was battling personal demons and Enzo's big mistake was just not laying low... that and an awful rap after getting released. Plus I think both got a lot of hate for the worked shoot angle at the ROH/MSG Super Show. Which really isn't their fault that didn't work out.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 15, 2022 6:22:55 GMT -5
If I can give an MMA example. Colby Covington. Yes the guy says a bunch of shitty things, but at the same time hes mostly just trying to sell a fight. Not to memtion at least he isn't (to my knowledge) a violent shithead out of the cage like Conner, or an out of control cheat like Jon Jones
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 15, 2022 6:38:30 GMT -5
No he wasn't. The prosecution ran out of money. That's by no means being found "innocent." Really? Weren't the charges dropped? I forget how it worked. Charges being dropped is not the same as being found innocent. Technically, even a Not Guilty charge is not actually being found innocent; that's not how the system works. But a lot of cases, especially sexual assault cases, never see trial not necessarily because evidence came out proving the incident didn't happen--although that does occur--but because there isn't enough to take to trial, where the burden is high to nail down a proper conviction, so pursuing it would be wasteful on many fronts.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 15, 2022 10:32:26 GMT -5
Really? Weren't the charges dropped? I forget how it worked. Charges being dropped is not the same as being found innocent. Technically, even a Not Guilty charge is not actually being found innocent; that's not how the system works. But a lot of cases, especially sexual assault cases, never see trial not necessarily because evidence came out proving the incident didn't happen--although that does occur--but because there isn't enough to take to trial, where the burden is high to nail down a proper conviction, so pursuing it would be wasteful on many fronts. As I recall, the issue was him not telling the offices about the charges. Well long story short, not knowing what really happened (maybe ever), Enzo is not the absolute worst there is out there now. And he does things for fans and all.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 15, 2022 10:57:13 GMT -5
Charges being dropped is not the same as being found innocent. Technically, even a Not Guilty charge is not actually being found innocent; that's not how the system works. But a lot of cases, especially sexual assault cases, never see trial not necessarily because evidence came out proving the incident didn't happen--although that does occur--but because there isn't enough to take to trial, where the burden is high to nail down a proper conviction, so pursuing it would be wasteful on many fronts. As I recall, the issue was him not telling the offices about the charges. Well long story short, not knowing what really happened (maybe ever), Enzo is not the absolute worst there is out there now. And he does things for fans and all. Not telling the office was only part fo the issue; when WWE told him they were going to take him off TV until the charges sorted themselves out, and stand yb him if nothing came of them, he threw a giant fit, cussed out talent relations on the phone, and got cut because of his own temper. If he had rode it out, he'd probably still be in WWE right now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 11:11:58 GMT -5
The Ospreay and Marty Scurll stories are, at the very least, far more nuanced than people portray them. And I know this because I've seen countless discussions about them end up with the person critical of them just giving up the argument and going "Well this is a weird hill for you to die on." instead of, you know, admitting that maybe it's more complex than they thought
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Apr 15, 2022 11:27:53 GMT -5
Also, for a while Bruno Sammartino had a bad reputation. I think that eased up when he agreed to go into the Hall of Fame, but there’s probably still some people who just think of him as a bitter old man. I dont remember anyone talking about Bruno as bitter. Now I got into things around 2002 so he may have been bitter at one point. Especially the late 80s and early 90s when things were fresh and his relationship with his son was falling apart. But by the 2000s everything about Bruno I read and interviews of his just had him as an old guy, happily retired, who had no interest in the business as it was today. I think at worst you could label Bruno “stubborn” but “bitter” is a bit much and a lot of guys that immigrated to the US from “the old country” had that trait. Nikolai Volkoff is widely hailed as possibly the nicest man to ever get into pro wrestling but Freddie Blassie, who praised Nikolai to the high heavens in his book, also said he was stubborn as a bull. Once Triple H convinced Bruno to just give them one more look, Bruno came back immediately and participated in several projects before his passing. If he were truly bitter, I doubt that could have happened.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Apr 15, 2022 12:05:47 GMT -5
I dont remember anyone talking about Bruno as bitter. Now I got into things around 2002 so he may have been bitter at one point. Especially the late 80s and early 90s when things were fresh and his relationship with his son was falling apart. But by the 2000s everything about Bruno I read and interviews of his just had him as an old guy, happily retired, who had no interest in the business as it was today. I think at worst you could label Bruno “stubborn” but “bitter” is a bit much and a lot of guys that immigrated to the US from “the old country” had that trait. Nikolai Volkoff is widely hailed as possibly the nicest man to ever get into pro wrestling but Freddie Blassie, who praised Nikolai to the high heavens in his book, also said he was stubborn as a bull. Once Triple H convinced Bruno to just give them one more look, Bruno came back immediately and participated in several projects before his passing. If he were truly bitter, I doubt that could have happened. Yeah my real exposure to Bruno was on the Wrestling Observer shows and he was always pleasant and had a good attitude towards the business as it was. He never sounded bitter but definitely stubborn. The movie about his life wasnt getting made because he wouldnt allow any Hollywood BS about his moms story before they came to America. My question is when was he ever portrayed as bitter? Like I said I got into things in 2002 and I dont remember any stories of him as a bitter old guy. Just how he was a big star and retired and gone away.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Apr 15, 2022 12:10:45 GMT -5
I think at worst you could label Bruno “stubborn” but “bitter” is a bit much and a lot of guys that immigrated to the US from “the old country” had that trait. Nikolai Volkoff is widely hailed as possibly the nicest man to ever get into pro wrestling but Freddie Blassie, who praised Nikolai to the high heavens in his book, also said he was stubborn as a bull. Once Triple H convinced Bruno to just give them one more look, Bruno came back immediately and participated in several projects before his passing. If he were truly bitter, I doubt that could have happened. Yeah my real exposure to Bruno was on the Wrestling Observer shows and he was always pleasant and had a good attitude towards the business as it was. He never sounded bitter but definitely stubborn. The movie about his life wasnt getting made because he wouldnt allow any Hollywood BS about his moms story before they came to America. My question is when was he ever portrayed as bitter? Like I said I got into things in 2002 and I dont remember any stories of him as a bitter old guy. Just how he was a big star and retired and gone away. I remember seeing it online, including here, basically right up until he was announced for the hall of fame.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 15, 2022 12:11:36 GMT -5
The Ospreay and Marty Scurll stories are, at the very least, far more nuanced than people portray them. And I know this because I've seen countless discussions about them end up with the person critical of them just giving up the argument and going "Well this is a weird hill for you to die on." instead of, you know, admitting that maybe it's more complex than they thought Nah being like "Actually f***ing a sixteen year old is okay in some contexts" is a weird hill to die on, that's not surrender to the mind-searing logic of nuance and the inability to keep being right.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 15, 2022 12:27:29 GMT -5
As I recall, the issue was him not telling the offices about the charges. Well long story short, not knowing what really happened (maybe ever), Enzo is not the absolute worst there is out there now. And he does things for fans and all. Not telling the office was only part fo the issue; when WWE told him they were going to take him off TV until the charges sorted themselves out, and stand yb him if nothing came of them, he threw a giant fit, cussed out talent relations on the phone, and got cut because of his own temper. If he had rode it out, he'd probably still be in WWE right now. Pretty much. They basically told him to lay low and he threw a big fit and cursed everyone out and they wiped their hands with him. Their policy with all allegations at that point was to take you off the road and do their due diligence and let things play out. If I remember correctly, Heath Slater got accused of assault or something and he was taken off the road for a while until things cleared up and was brought back That’s Enzo own fault he didn’t last in WWE longer. He would def been hit for the drugs but he would kept his job
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 12:44:39 GMT -5
The Ospreay and Marty Scurll stories are, at the very least, far more nuanced than people portray them. And I know this because I've seen countless discussions about them end up with the person critical of them just giving up the argument and going "Well this is a weird hill for you to die on." instead of, you know, admitting that maybe it's more complex than they thought Nah being like "Actually f***ing a sixteen year old is okay in some contexts" is a weird hill to die on, that's not surrender to the mind-searing logic of nuance and the inability to keep being right. ...Whooo boy was it a struggle to stay calm when I responded to this post. Had to go back and erase some profanity. Thanks for proving my point. Don't you ever, ever, EVER accuse me of saying it's okay to f*** a sixteen year old ever again. How dare you? Why on earth do you think that's acceptable? Do you not understand there's a person on the other end of this conversation that you just accused of being okay with defending pedophilia? This is exactly what I'm talking about. This shit right here. There's a mile of space between "I could see how he might not have known her age if that story he met her at a bar was true, not like you check ID before you hook up with someone" and "Go ahead and sleep with sixteen year olds." This friggin board is going to hell and it's because people are falling over themselves to do dumb shit like this. You don't know me, you didn't even ask me what my position was, you didn't even ask me to clarify. You just jumped to the part where you got to say I was okay with some dude knowingly banging sixteen year olds. That shit SHOULD draw a ban, because it's an awful thing to say about a person, but I bet it won't.
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