|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 15, 2022 12:46:50 GMT -5
Nah being like "Actually f***ing a sixteen year old is okay in some contexts" is a weird hill to die on, that's not surrender to the mind-searing logic of nuance and the inability to keep being right. ...Whooo boy was it a struggle to stay calm when I responded to this post. Had to go back and erase some profanity. Thanks for proving my point. Don't you ever, ever, EVER accuse me of saying it's okay to f*** a sixteen year old ever again. How dare you? Why on earth do you think that's acceptable? Do you not understand there's a person on the other end of this conversation that you just accused of being okay with defending pedophilia? This is exactly what I'm talking about. This shit right here. There's a mile of space between "I could see how he might not have known her age if that story he met her at a bar was true, not like you check ID before you hook up with someone" and "Go ahead and sleep with sixteen year olds." This friggin board is going to hell and it's because people are falling over themselves to do dumb shit like this. You don't know me, you didn't even ask me what my position was, you didn't even ask me to clarify. You just jumped to the part where you got to say I was okay with some dude knowingly banging sixteen year olds. That shit SHOULD draw a ban, because it's an awful thing to say about a person, but I bet it won't. I never accused you of saying that, I was talking about the people who, when this stuff goes on, immediately start talking about age of consent stuff. Your post was about conversations that had been had. My post, then, was also about those conversations, because when I see those conversations, they often involve people who defend that. If you thought that was me accusing you, then I'm sorry. I was not trying to accuse you. But every time I see those conversations go down people startt talking about how it wasn't a crime, and that is an ugly, ugly zone to go down, and I don't see dismissal of that ugliness offhand as any sort of admission of defeat.
|
|
|
Post by Natural Born Farmer on Apr 15, 2022 13:33:08 GMT -5
You mean the same Ronda Rousey who thinks Sandy Hook was a false flag?
|
|
|
Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Apr 15, 2022 13:35:19 GMT -5
Even setting aside everything else that Warrior did and said, the "Karma's a bitch," statement does it for me. Maybe he changed near the end. I hope he did. But he was a miserable human being.
|
|
|
Post by Natural Born Farmer on Apr 15, 2022 13:35:28 GMT -5
Jesse The Body Ventura he just tells it like it is Eeehhhh, I feel like that’s a stretch. It’s more like he calls it how he perceives it. I don’t always agree but I do respect that he can at least explain how he arrived at his more unconventional beliefs without resorting to a “do your own research” excuse.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 13:40:22 GMT -5
Enzo Amore honestly.
Seems like most people have tarnished him with the "sexual abuser" brush when it was proven he wasn't even in the same City as the accuser at the time she said it happened.
This cost him his career. I feel bad for him cause he was over and one of the very few people in the business who actually "got it"
|
|
Dan Royal
AC Slater
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 212
|
Post by Dan Royal on Apr 15, 2022 14:11:13 GMT -5
Brock Lesnar when it comes to being a part-timer or not caring.
He's in a position where his name has value, he's getting what he's worth. Should he take a lower contract and work 300 days a year, just to please fans?
If anything, him only working 10-12 matches a year, keeps him fresh and gives his matches a big fight PPV feel.
If other wrestlers are willing to work a full-time schedule for a fraction of the money that Lesnar makes, that's their problem.
|
|
kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,279
|
Post by kidkamikaze10 on Apr 15, 2022 14:11:20 GMT -5
From a technical/wrestling standpoint, I think giants in general get undeserved hate because they don't work the super athletic or super powerful styles. Yeah, most promotions don't know how to make them work, but some people like to act like Andre and Baba couldn't wrestle. Absolutely untrue. Giants can work like any other style...
It's just that WWE gets the monopoly on them, and I don't think I've ever seen them train one right.
From an outside the ring standpoint, I think too many people take their in ring opinions of The Miz and take them waaaaay too far. Because the dude seems genuinely awesome outside of the ring.
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 15, 2022 14:18:04 GMT -5
From an outside the ring standpoint, I think too many people take their in ring opinions of The Miz and take them waaaaay too far. Because the dude seems genuinely awesome outside of the ring. Even in the ring, I've felt like the hate is way overblown. Miz consistently sells me on the idea that he's barely hanging on and giving his all. That counts for a lot in wrestling.
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 15, 2022 14:39:09 GMT -5
chavo jr, all because of one promo by kurt angle in tna. Similarly: El Dandy, a very good wrestler who was treated like a loser joke partly because that was the default state for luchadors in WCW and therefore partly because of racism. And I am heartened that no one's thought to mention someone who would've been first on this list just a few years ago. I'll take this to mean most people really have turned around on him. But just in case anyone hasn't gotten the memo: Sean Waltman, by all accounts, got his shit completely together. (He's also dating a respected author and producer for Black-Ish???)
|
|
|
Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 15, 2022 14:42:43 GMT -5
From an outside the ring standpoint, I think too many people take their in ring opinions of The Miz and take them waaaaay too far. Because the dude seems genuinely awesome outside of the ring. Even in the ring, I've felt like the hate is way overblown. Miz consistently sells me on the idea that he's barely hanging on and giving his all. That counts for a lot in wrestling. I'm sure the Miz is an okay guy. I just don't ever want to see him on my tv screen unless he's getting the snot beat out of him. Which I guess means he is doing his job well.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,131
|
Post by Mozenrath on Apr 15, 2022 15:01:27 GMT -5
chavo jr, all because of one promo by kurt angle in tna. Similarly: El Dandy, a very good wrestler who was treated like a loser joke partly because that was the default state for luchadors in WCW and therefore partly because of racism. And I am heartened that no one's thought to mention someone who would've been first on this list just a few years ago. I'll take this to mean most people really have turned around on him. But just in case anyone hasn't gotten the memo: Sean Waltman, by all accounts, got his shit completely together. (He's also dating a respected author and producer for Black-Ish???) I think Sean Waltman's well thought of these days. It helps he has been pretty candid about a lot of the problems he had, and people often put him over as very humble and genuine. Also, with how stale his character got at the end being an increasingly distant memory, his legacy's been evaluated more, with people seeing that from the mid to late '90s, he was honestly one of the best in the ring. You could probably see more of his DNA in modern wrestling than you could some people who were much bigger names than him at the time. Beyond that, it's stunning turning on some of his matches from like '98 or '99 and seeing that he was REALLY over. If injuries and bad booking not hampered him, I don't know that they'd have ever made him world champion or anything, but he would have definitely been a multi-time IC champion or something back when that was more atypical.
|
|
MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,979
|
Post by MolotovMocktail on Apr 15, 2022 15:37:45 GMT -5
Enzo Amore honestly. Seems like most people have tarnished him with the "sexual abuser" brush when it was proven he wasn't even in the same City as the accuser at the time she said it happened. This cost him his career. I feel bad for him cause he was over and one of the very few people in the business who actually "got it" Thing with Enzo is, he was massively disliked in the locker room before this came out. It doesn’t make him a bad person, but it made him an idiot who couldn’t stop himself from doing stupid shit that alienated him from other wrestlers. From what I remember, if it wasn’t that specific allegation that ultimately got him fired, it was a pattern of immature behavior that people didn’t want to deal with.
|
|
MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,979
|
Post by MolotovMocktail on Apr 15, 2022 15:46:54 GMT -5
Ultimate Warrior He had a rough childhood, made something of himself. Was going to become I believe a chiropractor and did bodybuilding...got into wrestling just to make some $ on the side. Created a legendary character, has absolutely no background, knowledge, or understanding of the world of wrestling (or athletics) but manages to carve out a place for himself. Ends up in the WWF, His look, energy, and character resonate with the fans so they push him to the moon. Everyone around him is jealous and spiteful towards him because this guy who never had any desire to be involved in wrestling is now more over than they will ever be He never had any reverence or love of the business simply because he saw how destructive and dangerous it was. He hated the traveling, he hated how it ruined lives and how cutthroat it was. He just wanted to get his while he could (big main event $) be wise with it...and get out of and do what he wanted to do. Of course he could be a jerk, a huge jerk, and a hypocrite. But he also knew exactly what he wanted to get out of his run, his character....he did that, and he lived the life he wanted with his wife and kids. He never stopped trying to better himself. He was a flawed man but never even close to the irrational asshole nutcase he was slandered as by many. He knew himself that the business wasnt for him even at the height of his popularity, and I think he tried to do what was necessary so that he wouldnt have to end up like Flair. Be smart with your money, be there for your wife and children He f***ed over a lot of people though. Like, when Vegas finally had a thriving mid-90s indy (NWC) at a time when the business in general was doing terrible, he convinced the promoter to make him a partner and then proceeded to steal from it and destroy it. That's actively irredeemable beyond "this guy is tough to work with." And then you have how many fans he f***ed over up through the last year of his life by lying to them about the history of different replica belts. If you sell at least four different people the belt that you're claiming was *the* belt you won at Wrestlemania VI - and the moment of when you're selling it to them is your supposed "changed" twilight years - you're a piece of shit. Also, if you ever read his essays or listened to his speeches, if anyone is to blame for him sounding like an "irrational asshole nutcase" it's the man himself who thought posting all that shit for years was a good idea. Check his column on Hurricane Katrina. He didn’t mention race specifically, but relied on welfare-queen tropes to make a case on why we shouldn’t rebuild a predominately Black city. He was just as racist as Hogan, only he used a dog whistle while Hogan used a foghorn.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 21:01:42 GMT -5
Another pick for me:
Velveteen Dream.
One of the best characters in years but had his career ruined by a series of tweets that were proven to be framed to make him look extremely predatory.
It doesn't help that the guy who did it was part of a racist online group.
The "What school do you go to?" question? I believe he was asking what wrestling school he was training at.
But I'll say this... Dream shouldn't have been communicating with underage fans. Regardless of his intentions. It was always gonna look dodgy and bad.
Whether or not the guy is even gay? Who the f*** knows. As far as I'm aware, I don't think the guy has any interest in men? Which would indicate further that he wouldn't be preying on 16/17 year old boys.
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on Apr 15, 2022 21:09:33 GMT -5
Looking at this and the other thread, and some responses therein, I wonder how many of these were colored by"he/she was nice/not nice when I met him/her."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 21:55:51 GMT -5
Maybe Carlito's "laziness" was simply wanting a decent work/life balance. He afaik never skipped a show (left as soon as his match was done which didn't please "the boys"), he never deliberately stunk out the joint to avoid breaking a sweat he just decided busting a gut wasn't worth it and as a result never made it to the main event.
Carlito looks great as a middle aged man and maybe growing up with a father whose forehead resembled a map of the Tokyo subway convinced him that staying healthy for his later years was more important than winning a lot of titles.
Yeah if he was in the main event of WM and puts on a typical Carlito match that's a bit selfish for the fans but no one ever bought a ticket because Carlito was on the card and that was a situation that suited both Carlito and fans mutually.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 16, 2022 4:27:51 GMT -5
Another pick for me: Velveteen Dream. One of the best characters in years but had his career ruined by a series of tweets that were proven to be framed to make him look extremely predatory. It doesn't help that the guy who did it was part of a racist online group. The "What school do you go to?" question? I believe he was asking what wrestling school he was training at. But I'll say this... Dream shouldn't have been communicating with underage fans. Regardless of his intentions. It was always gonna look dodgy and bad. Whether or not the guy is even gay? Who the f*** knows. As far as I'm aware, I don't think the guy has any interest in men? Which would indicate further that he wouldn't be preying on 16/17 year old boys. I'm begging you to do more research, Negan. Not just on Dream but on how sexual abuse and grooming actually works. It has next to nothing to do with your sexuality, and the association if paederasty and queerness has been doing damage to LGBT+ people throughout human history
|
|
|
Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Apr 16, 2022 5:41:42 GMT -5
Similarly: El Dandy, a very good wrestler who was treated like a loser joke partly because that was the default state for luchadors in WCW and therefore partly because of racism. And I am heartened that no one's thought to mention someone who would've been first on this list just a few years ago. I'll take this to mean most people really have turned around on him. But just in case anyone hasn't gotten the memo: Sean Waltman, by all accounts, got his shit completely together. (He's also dating a respected author and producer for Black-Ish???) I think Sean Waltman's well thought of these days. It helps he has been pretty candid about a lot of the problems he had, and people often put him over as very humble and genuine. Also, with how stale his character got at the end being an increasingly distant memory, his legacy's been evaluated more, with people seeing that from the mid to late '90s, he was honestly one of the best in the ring. You could probably see more of his DNA in modern wrestling than you could some people who were much bigger names than him at the time. Beyond that, it's stunning turning on some of his matches from like '98 or '99 and seeing that he was REALLY over. If injuries and bad booking not hampered him, I don't know that they'd have ever made him world champion or anything, but he would have definitely been a multi-time IC champion or something back when that was more atypical. Yeah, Waltman's thought of great now. I think most are in agreement that he should get a Hall of Fame induction just for himself. That he was one of the best workers of the 90s, and that Nash was right when he said "if you couldn't have a good match with Waltman, there wasn't much hope for you."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2022 7:10:50 GMT -5
I didn't think Seth Rollins deserved his reputation of being a shitty person a few years ago when he said some dumb stuff on Twitter.
|
|
|
Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Apr 16, 2022 7:32:39 GMT -5
Brock Lesnar when it comes to being a part-timer or not caring. He's in a position where his name has value, he's getting what he's worth. Should he take a lower contract and work 300 days a year, just to please fans? If anything, him only working 10-12 matches a year, keeps him fresh and gives his matches a big fight PPV feel. If other wrestlers are willing to work a full-time schedule for a fraction of the money that Lesnar makes, that's their problem. Brock is more the situation of his matches have gotten lazy. Every since he started this whole suplex city stuff. All he does in a match is German Suplex X20, f5, and maybe a regular suplex and belly to belly overhead. I just named really Brock matches since Suplex City started. When fans have seen and know he capable of more they will call them out on it. Yes I get it, Brock got it over and fans brought T-shirts. Now days it ran its course. So I think really in a position of the final boss/ big man feel, fans expect a classic fight. Most cases it has been underwhelming.
|
|