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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 22, 2022 3:02:11 GMT -5
There's a lot of tribalism in wrestling fandoms, as there is in a lot of fandoms, but let's look at this from another angle.
Rather than what we dislike about the other stuff, what is it about WWE that keeps you watching, or kept you watching when you used to watch it? The thing you can only get from Vinnie's Mac's HD Carnival Geek Show.
I don't watch WWE any more myself, but there are a handful of things that WWE does that simply nobody else does as well or at all, and some of these I still miss to this day.
For me, the things that I watched WWE specifically for previously and basically still miss to this day:
1. The talent. This is an obvious one, but even since the pandemic releases, WWE has a preposterously stacked roster. There's a lot of chat about the main roster women's division being weak as f***, but to be honest as a BritWres fan myself I can tell you that if they called up the whole NXT UK women's division (except Bea Priestley) you would be seeing some of the best wrestling you can possibly imagine, especially when Meiko Satomura is their champion. That's not getting into the truly singular talents that they still have on their roster, people like Brock Lesnar or Roman or even non-traditional WWE people like Owens.
2. The Royal Rumble. The joke I always crack is that my 'WWE anniversary' is the Rumble, because I first watched WWF on Channel 4 here in the UK when they picked up Heat and the Rumble in January 2000. I'd only watched ECW and WCW prior to that. To this day, the Royal Rumble is for my money probably the single greatest gimmick match idea in history, and even the worst Rumbles are entertaining matches simply because of what they are. Almost every promotion on Earth has tried to replicate the Rumble in some way either with their own gimmick match or with a 'similar but legally distinct' Rumble match, and while I've seen some very good ones (ICW have started getting very good at it, and Pro Wrestling EVE have had some good ones, the first MLW Battle Riot is probably for my money the single best match that promotion has ever booked), the only one you can really rely on is the Rumble itself. They book it better, they pace it better, they have the roster to fill it up plus the stacks of legends to call on.
3. The lower 'real' violence quotient - my partners are wrestling fans too, but neither one of them has any interest in seeing anybody actually bleeding. Fake blood is whatever, and more wrestling should use it, but guys actually gigging or even hardway is an instant turnoff for them. They almost never watch AEW live with me, because AEW are big fans of blading and you never know when it's going to happen. In WWE, you can virtually guarantee nobody will blade and hardway is pretty rare too, so you can throw on almost any of their shows and both of them would have watched. The three of us also share a strong dislike for shots to the head, given the Benoit situation and countless other cases of wrestlers who ruined their lives, or continue to do so, taking hits to the head. WWE has also proven that you can do a super violent match without having to make anyone bleed. I've seen legit deathmatches that made me less uncomfortable than that Hell in a Cell match where Xavier Woods ended up dangling from a ringpost getting his ribs ruined by the Usos with kendo sticks.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Apr 22, 2022 3:09:35 GMT -5
A big f***in’ headache.
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Post by thechase on Apr 22, 2022 3:17:21 GMT -5
Roman's booking
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Teemu
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 91
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Post by Teemu on Apr 22, 2022 3:21:32 GMT -5
Serious answer:
Episodic storytelling. And don't get me wrong, it's not of high quality, and hasn't been for years. And that is also why I don't pay very close attention, but WWE is still the best of the worst. Weekly storylines that develop episode to episode, as opposed to "here is this dream match between workrate guy A and workrate guy B, they have no heat, or beef, or any reason for you to care, but you're expected to because of reasons". And don't get me wrong, there is an audience for that. And some absolutely adore that. And that's cool. This is not an attack. And AEW does sometimes do weekly storytelling, but it's a dice roll who is even on the show any given week, let alone if stories get advanced. To me, wrestling is not a sport; it's a male soap opera. That's all I want. Also, the top quality video packages. WWE has always been king at those.
Joke answer:
Endless rematches.
I'm pretty cold on all wrestling currently, though, if I'm being honest with you.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Apr 22, 2022 3:49:38 GMT -5
The rumble is the big one, the streak while it existed. Was once tradition in general but they've devalued most of it. Vince actively tries to diminish that by doing things like not numbering wm is crazy, it should be their biggest strength.
It's very rare I got the same feeling of the really big matches elsewhere. They're still big but not say Rock Vs Hogan, HBK Vs Taker at wm big. There was a sense all roads eventually lead to WWE but it feels like they're increasingly in their own bubble while the rest are becoming more like the mcu. Personally it was also accessibility, they were easiest, not so much now the barrier to entry is lower elsewhere.
Video packages are a good shout. Again history, that lonely faith of faith video, ending with the WWE champions, a through line that connected the eras and hadn't been devalued by two world titles or Jinder.
Kinda agree with weekly episodic stories too but while that's my ideal there only really a few periods they truely hit to a high quality consistently (97,98, 00, Smackdown six, early black and gold, litdown stand out)
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 22, 2022 3:54:00 GMT -5
I mean you could probably get one of those from Choose Your Narrative too! >_>
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Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
Posts: 6,317
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Post by Sam Punk on Apr 22, 2022 3:55:35 GMT -5
Roman Reigns
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Somebody stop him! He's supposed to die!
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Post by schma on Apr 22, 2022 4:30:20 GMT -5
Familiarity. I've watched WWE off and on since I was a kid in the late 80s. I followed WCW as well for the Monday night wars but WWE has been there my whole life as far as wrestling goes. I haven't actively watched In a few years but i do checkout recaps and whatnot.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,485
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Post by msc on Apr 22, 2022 5:04:27 GMT -5
The Royal Rumble. All of wrestling is secondary.
Also, they have 2 of the belts I care about most in wrestling (the WWE title, and the IC belt).
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Post by Duke Cameron on Apr 22, 2022 6:01:16 GMT -5
It used to be the characters, but I’ve come to value work rate more. Character work is now a distant second to me in importance.
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Post by CeilingFan on Apr 22, 2022 6:14:10 GMT -5
Royal Rumble, nothing more.
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Post by theironyuppie on Apr 22, 2022 6:20:47 GMT -5
Wrestlemania was a reminder that WWE's unmatched in sheer scale and spectacle.
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Wieners=$$$
Hank Scorpio
Gif Master Extraordinaire
I Miss You Peanut😥
Posts: 6,160
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Apr 22, 2022 6:28:33 GMT -5
3 hour Raws eventually became a good excuse to go to bed early.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 22, 2022 6:37:20 GMT -5
Serious answer: Episodic storytelling. And don't get me wrong, it's not of high quality, and hasn't been for years. And that is also why I don't pay very close attention, but WWE is still the best of the worst. Weekly storylines that develop episode to episode, as opposed to "here is this dream match between workrate guy A and workrate guy B, they have no heat, or beef, or any reason for you to care, but you're expected to because of reasons". And don't get me wrong, there is an audience for that. And some absolutely adore that. And that's cool. This is not an attack. And AEW does sometimes do weekly storytelling, but it's a dice roll who is even on the show any given week, let alone if stories get advanced. To me, wrestling is not a sport; it's a male soap opera. That's all I want. Also, the top quality video packages. WWE has always been king at those. Joke answer: Endless rematches. I'm pretty cold on all wrestling currently, though, if I'm being honest with you. Have to be honest; I don't think there's a mainstream or near-mainstream televised wrestling product in the US that does what you're describing, outside of some one-off "dream match" scenarios here or there. Going by the way the results read, at least, I find most of them use their matches to tell long-term stories better than WWE does.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 22, 2022 6:49:35 GMT -5
Grandeur and spectacle. They are still the best at making events/happenings feel and look like a big deal. Certain events have a gravitas to them that are unmatched. I sometimes get that feel from AEW too, but’s it’s definitely more rare.
Royal Rumble.
Video packages.
Big/memorable moments. They seem to be their best when they’re creating big “moments,” whether Wrestlemania moments or otherwise. Sometimes the week to week shows leave a little to be desired in terms of storytelling (though I think they’ve improved greatly in recent years over what we were seeing at certain points), but they are unmatched in terms of creating such moments.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2022 7:04:59 GMT -5
The urge to change the channel.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 22, 2022 7:33:11 GMT -5
History. The lore of WWE is just second to none and it always feels like something important is going on in just how they sell their history.
Video Packages.
Big Fight Feel. No company in North America can make something feel as big & and important as WWE. Sometimes that works against them as the match cannot live up to the hype but damnit it makes you want to watch it.
There is an unpredictability to the shows. While not every episode has a surprise, WWE usually likes to just do something different in their booking every once in a while to keep you on your toes.
Video Packages are second to none.
I like that WWE is in its own bubble. I don't care about Japanese wrestling or some dumbass dude who curses people from the indies and I am just expected to know who these dudes are. I like that WWE makes us care about debuting guys or just giving me a reason to care about something because this person is in their product.
Soap Opera/Wackyness. I'm a child of the ruthless aggression era. What I want in my wrestling is soap and camp and stupid shit. Yeah, sometimes it won't work but I love that goofy shit.
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Teemu
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 91
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Post by Teemu on Apr 22, 2022 7:36:19 GMT -5
Serious answer: Episodic storytelling. And don't get me wrong, it's not of high quality, and hasn't been for years. And that is also why I don't pay very close attention, but WWE is still the best of the worst. Weekly storylines that develop episode to episode, as opposed to "here is this dream match between workrate guy A and workrate guy B, they have no heat, or beef, or any reason for you to care, but you're expected to because of reasons". And don't get me wrong, there is an audience for that. And some absolutely adore that. And that's cool. This is not an attack. And AEW does sometimes do weekly storytelling, but it's a dice roll who is even on the show any given week, let alone if stories get advanced. To me, wrestling is not a sport; it's a male soap opera. That's all I want. Also, the top quality video packages. WWE has always been king at those. Joke answer: Endless rematches. I'm pretty cold on all wrestling currently, though, if I'm being honest with you. Have to be honest; I don't think there's a mainstream or near-mainstream televised wrestling product in the US that does what you're describing, outside of some one-off "dream match" scenarios here or there. Going by the way the results read, at least, I find most of them use their matches to tell long-term stories better than WWE does. Yea idk. I'm not overly excited about WWE, but I gotta be honest and just say that I care even less about AEW. The storytelling is so jumbled. Best way I can describe it. But the thing is, WWE is the other extreme end where it's very, very formulaic, and it gets boring real fast. I don't know, I can't answer you really, but there is just something so uninteresting about AEW's whole presentation that even when WWE is extremely boring and bad, when I put the two side by side, I just care about WWE more. Honestly, though: neither company caters to me, really. WWE is for kids, and AEW is for the hardcore wrestling fan that cares about the matches and match quality above all else. I'm happy for people who like AEW, but I do get a little bitter and wish there was a WWE alternative for me, haha. TNA's presentation is awful with the sound stage and 7 people in attendance where you can hear a pin drop. I guess the answer to the question is that WWE gives me that comfy familiar format where I know how things work, and maybe I'm drawn to that sort of out of habit. And AEW to someone like me just seems like an unorganized mess. With some cool talent here and there, but no one doing anything of any interest. Except Wardlow's pretty cool. I'd like a 97-99/2000-ish WWF style presentation, but without all the TnA and immature stuff and poop humour and stuff like that. But the charismatic characters, episodic storytelling, cliffhangers, short matches, shows that go fullspeed at all times.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2022 7:36:55 GMT -5
Kevin Dunn's Cinematography.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Apr 22, 2022 7:49:23 GMT -5
From what I gathered from WWE fans raving about Wrestlemania, that WWE is definitely ahead when it comes to glamour and spectacle.
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