asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 26, 2022 14:39:04 GMT -5
Understood that this is in character, and the AEW booking shortcomings have been well documented. It does drip of some irony that she references Ruby who was booked horribly by WWE, so not sure how much "better" things are for the women in WWE not named Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair & Ronda Rousey. I mean SD sucks right now. But Raw has cemented a new top star in Bianca and has three women’s feuds going on on TV that has story behind them. Perfect, oh heck no. But still better than AEW right now. NXT 2.0 is doing pretty well as well.
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Post by eJm on Apr 26, 2022 14:40:39 GMT -5
I’m just going to go in here, say the obvious thing of “Of course she’s going to say that, what is she going to say “Oh, you know what, that division has a lot of talented people. I wish we could wrestle them and throw open that Forbidden Door instead of being locked behind it. I also wish Tony Khan would give them more time because they’ve earned it”” and leave because if I’ve learned one thing recently in the AEW section is that a lot of people can’t talk about the division in a mature manner without losing their crap.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by FinalGwen on Apr 26, 2022 14:53:10 GMT -5
I'm not sure they can brag too much about the quality of WWE's women's division when they had Nia Jax wandering around injuring people for years on end until very recently, but she has a fair point about the time they're given in AEW.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 26, 2022 14:56:18 GMT -5
I think WWE's division is better both from a talent and star power stnadpoint but as mentioned they have kind of an unfair advantage as a lot of their roster is people who've had about a decade worth of television exposure at this point. I think AEW's roster has potential but they have a big roster and not a lot of TV time and it's led to a lot of girls with a lot of upside who could be so much more spinning their wheels. Off the top of my head Tay Conti, Anna Jay, and Jamie Hayter are three who have star written all over them and should be a lot further along then they are but they don't do crap with them. Even someone like Ruby who is still over is an afterthought. It seems like everything revolves around Britt Baker, Jade Cargill, and Thunder Rosa and if you aren't one of those three they don't care. Raw has the best women's division in the world with its what, like, six people? On paper it's the best. They just don't utilize all of their women to their fullest potential. If you look at it you have Becky, Bianca, Asuka, and Rhea as your top four. That's a real strong top four as all four are stars, all four have cred, and all four can go in the ring. After that you have Alexa who has star power, name value, and is really over but they don't use her for some reason. Then you have Liv, Doudrop, and Sonya who are all still young and have star potential but have crap booking that are preventing them from reaching their potential. Nikki, Carmella, and Zelina are meh but they have each have things they do well and can be useful members of a roster. Only real weak links are Tamina and Dana. It's better then Smackdown who has Charlotte and Ronda on top both of whom have a lot of star and cred but the former is a super stale and uninteresting character and the other doesn't seem to be interested. Sasha is a good #3 and Naomi is fine as a upper midcard face. After that though there's nothing. Natalya and Shayna are boring, jury is still out on Lacey and Raquel with them both being reintroduced and repackaged, and then the lowercard is mainly women who aren't even on TV and honestly I don't think have a real high ceiling anyways (Aliyah, Shotzi, Xia). As mentioned NXT and Impact it seems like have the best booking in that they both utlizie their rosters the best but they don't have the talent. NXT is a lot of greenhorns who are still a few years away and Impact lacks that ace to build around. It's like you can't win either way. If you had the people booking NXT and Impact booking Raw and AEW it would be perfect. Instead it's either they have the horses but don't have the mind behind them or they have the mind but don't have the horses.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Apr 26, 2022 14:57:36 GMT -5
Understood that this is in character, and the AEW booking shortcomings have been well documented. It does drip of some irony that she references Ruby who was booked horribly by WWE, so not sure how much "better" things are for the women in WWE not named Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair & Ronda Rousey. Or Bianca Belair, Bayley, Sasha Banks, Asuka, Alexa Bliss, Carmella, Naomi, Rhea Ripley, Liv Morgan, Zelina Vega, Mandy Rose, Sonya Deville, Lacey Evans, Natayla. They're almost all featured regularly on TV every week. Some of them are legit bigger stars than most of the men on the roster (Becky, Sasha, Ronda, Charlotte, Bianca, Bayley, Alexa). Then on NXT you have people like Cora Jade, Rok-C and Gigi Dolin already near the top of the card on a national TV show. In AEW they'd likely still be on Dark most weeks. Even a midcarder like Liv Morgan for instance. Her closest comparison in AEW is probably Tay Conti in terms of experience level and look. Liv is on TV every week, involved in storylines and wrestles on most PPVs while Tay can up and disappear from TV for weeks at a time. Hell, Tamina is bottom of the barrel in terms of WWE women talent-wise and even she probably gets more TV time than any AEW women not named Britt or Jade. There are some who are underutilized (Aliyah/Shotzi/Xia) but overall the women get featured way better in WWE than AEW. Case in point, it's not a big deal anymore when they get the high profile slots (opener, main event, 9/10pm slot) on Raw or Smackdown because it happens so often. Meanwhile AEW 9 times out of 10 will have their one women's segment on Dynamite in the spot right before the main event. In over 100 episodes how many times have the women opened or closed the show?
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Post by cornettesracket on Apr 26, 2022 15:00:35 GMT -5
In character or not she’s not wrong. It’s one of the things I don’t understand given they have some great talent on their female roster but coming up on three years into AEW, they seem unable or unwilling to fix the issues they have, and I’m not sure which is worse. I love that she name dropped ruby soho by name because ruby deserve any credit she gets because she’s a great wrestler and also a great human being and hopefully her being name dropped doesn’t get her heat.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 26, 2022 15:04:06 GMT -5
I think it's interesting that she name-dropped Ruby. Because Ruby was supposed to be this game-changer for the AEW women's division and WWE used her terribly. Now she's barely on the TV shows. Like I don't get that.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 26, 2022 15:24:46 GMT -5
I mean she isn't wrong when she talks about the comparison to AEW as I understand a big complaint is they do not get enough time on Dynamite and it basically revolves around Britt Baker who is apparently like a noose around that division even still as she is no longer the champion. But also I have said this myself AEW has talented women but they do not have themselves an Asuka or Sasha Banks or Io level star both as a character and worker and that is where WWE eclipses them currently. As for the best womens division in the world I know likely in character but STARDOM exsists dear Becky. Stardom does exist... but to be the best women's division, you have to have STARS. WWE has mega star level women. So... I mean... no eclipses them there.
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Nr1Humanoid
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Apr 26, 2022 15:28:02 GMT -5
I love how both companies has the exact same character/portrayer in Charlotte and Britt, right down to their weird hold on their boss' admiration.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Apr 26, 2022 15:35:56 GMT -5
Raw has the best women's division in the world with its what, like, six people? They haven’t been using all of them but they have 13! Becky, Asuka, Bianca, Bliss, Rhea, Liv, Doudrop, Zelina, Carmella, Tamina, Dana, Sonya, Nikki Bailey, Alexa, are also waiting in the wings
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Post by sportatorium on Apr 26, 2022 15:36:18 GMT -5
Understood that this is in character, and the AEW booking shortcomings have been well documented. It does drip of some irony that she references Ruby who was booked horribly by WWE, so not sure how much "better" things are for the women in WWE not named Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair & Ronda Rousey. I mean SD sucks right now. But Raw has cemented a new top star in Bianca and has three women’s feuds going on on TV that has story behind them. Perfect, oh heck no. But still better than AEW right now. NXT 2.0 is doing pretty well as well. They already had Bianca cemented and then decided to have her drop her belt in 26 seconds & gave her multiple stops and starts before finally giving her something back at Mania. I don't trust them to keep her momentum up at all if her next feud isn't reaching Vince's bizarre brass ring- Becky will have that belt back before we know it.
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Post by sportatorium on Apr 26, 2022 15:42:15 GMT -5
Understood that this is in character, and the AEW booking shortcomings have been well documented. It does drip of some irony that she references Ruby who was booked horribly by WWE, so not sure how much "better" things are for the women in WWE not named Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair & Ronda Rousey. Or Bianca Belair, Bayley, Sasha Banks, Asuka, Alexa Bliss, Carmella, Naomi, Rhea Ripley, Liv Morgan, Zelina Vega, Mandy Rose, Sonya Deville, Lacey Evans, Natayla. They're almost all featured regularly on TV every week. Some of them are legit bigger stars than most of the men on the roster (Becky, Sasha, Ronda, Charlotte, Bianca, Bayley, Alexa). Then on NXT you have people like Cora Jade, Rok-C and Gigi Dolin already near the top of the card on a national TV show. In AEW they'd likely still be on Dark most weeks. Even a midcarder like Liv Morgan for instance. Her closest comparison in AEW is probably Tay Conti in terms of experience level and look. Liv is on TV every week, involved in storylines and wrestles on most PPVs while Tay can up and disappear from TV for weeks at a time. Hell, Tamina is bottom of the barrel in terms of WWE women talent-wise and even she probably gets more TV time than any AEW women not named Britt or Jade. There are some who are underutilized (Aliyah/Shotzi/Xia) but overall the women get featured way better in WWE than AEW. Case in point, it's not a big deal anymore when they get the high profile slots (opener, main event, 9/10pm slot) on Raw or Smackdown because it happens so often. Meanwhile AEW 9 times out of 10 will have their one women's segment on Dynamite in the spot right before the main event. In over 100 episodes how many times have the women opened or closed the show? Hopefully they don't cool Bianca off again. Alexa hasn't been on TV in forever, Natalya is working NXT, Lacey's new promos have been great, but she's barely removed from heeling it up on Charlotte in a sex with Ric Flair angle. Liv has proven on repeat that she's over, and she's about to be fed to Rhea Ripley who defines stop/start booking. The only women who get consistent strong booking in WWE are Charlotte, Becky and Ronda. Bayley is injured, Sasha is being used to give the rub to Naomi in a tag team that will inevitably split with no real stakes involved. I agree with you 100% that the talent on the WWE women's roster is unimpeachable. I don't think their booking is drastically better than AEW.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 26, 2022 15:44:22 GMT -5
I mean SD sucks right now. But Raw has cemented a new top star in Bianca and has three women’s feuds going on on TV that has story behind them. Perfect, oh heck no. But still better than AEW right now. NXT 2.0 is doing pretty well as well. They already had Bianca cemented and then decided to have her drop her belt in 26 seconds & gave her multiple stops and starts before finally giving her something back at Mania. I don't trust them to keep her momentum up at all if her next feud isn't reaching Vince's bizarre brass ring- Becky will have that belt back before we know it. She beat basically an entire Survivor Series team by herself, has been the Iron Woman in the Royal Rumble the last three years, has had two Mania title wins, and beat three women by herself last night even after they used a chair on her. I don't know how you could be behind someone any more. That's the most superwoman booking I think anyone has ever got. Even the 26 seconds thing as bad as it was at the time was just part of a narrative that was going to lead to her smelling like roses at the end.
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Post by mistery on Apr 26, 2022 15:47:17 GMT -5
I mean she isn't wrong when she talks about the comparison to AEW as I understand a big complaint is they do not get enough time on Dynamite and it basically revolves around Britt Baker who is apparently like a noose around that division even still as she is no longer the champion. But also I have said this myself AEW has talented women but they do not have themselves an Asuka or Sasha Banks or Io level star both as a character and worker and that is where WWE eclipses them currently. As for the best womens division in the world I know likely in character but STARDOM exsists dear Becky. Stardom does exist... but to be the best women's division, you have to have STARS. WWE has mega star level women. So... I mean... no eclipses them there. I would argue just because STARDOM is a smaller promotion doesn't mean they don't have the best women's division. They have the widest variety of characters, pretty much everyone featured is either very good in the ring or an outright savant, and has a well defined character. Also in Japan, STARDOM has been outdrawing NJPW shows as of late, and has been doing a lot of crossover work with various media (radio, tv, podcasts, etc) and also IPs owned by Bushiroad. Where with WWE, you rarely see both a well defined character and a great wrestler featured prominently. They place way more emphasis on character work, which is fine in a nutshell. But if you can't wrestle, or your character is bad or stale (Charlotte springs to mind as the worst offender), it drags everything else down. WWE constantly refuses to let wrestlers freshen up their characters, and it's harmful.
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Post by sportatorium on Apr 26, 2022 15:48:40 GMT -5
They already had Bianca cemented and then decided to have her drop her belt in 26 seconds & gave her multiple stops and starts before finally giving her something back at Mania. I don't trust them to keep her momentum up at all if her next feud isn't reaching Vince's bizarre brass ring- Becky will have that belt back before we know it. She beat basically an entire Survivor Series team by herself, has been the Iron Woman in the Royal Rumble the last three years, has had two Mania title wins, and beat three women by herself last night even after they used a chair on her. I don't know how you could be behind someone any more. That's the most superwoman booking I think anyone has ever got. Even the 26 seconds thing as bad as it was at the time was just part of a narrative that was going to lead to her smelling like roses at the end. Fair enough & we want the same thing. I just don't trust WWE anymore and think she's still in the danger zone of ending up with 15 heel/face turns, some random tag run and all of us wondering what happened.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Apr 26, 2022 15:57:13 GMT -5
Well duh, they've been building the division for around a decade depending on where you start (personally I'd say the first NXT women's championship match was the beginning of the end for the diva era) Vs 3 years. They also have more hours of TV to fill.
It's not really worth comparing directly to Joshi promotions, more important is what happens in the next few years. Every indication is the golden period for women's wrestling in WWE has peaked and they're in the decline.
The perfect storm if talent and timing they got with the four horsewomen is unlikely to be repeated, you'd think Japanese women will stay away and there's unlikely to be another Ronda Rousey to boost the profile. Ideal conditions for some in power to shrink the division down.
If aew can capatilise on that remains to be seen but at least they're progressing in the right direction even if painfully slowly.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2022 16:03:37 GMT -5
I mean she isn't wrong when she talks about the comparison to AEW as I understand a big complaint is they do not get enough time on Dynamite and it basically revolves around Britt Baker who is apparently like a noose around that division even still as she is no longer the champion. But also I have said this myself AEW has talented women but they do not have themselves an Asuka or Sasha Banks or Io level star both as a character and worker and that is where WWE eclipses them currently. As for the best womens division in the world I know likely in character but STARDOM exsists dear Becky. Stardom does exist... but to be the best women's division, you have to have STARS. WWE has mega star level women. So... I mean... no eclipses them there. Just wondering here...you aren't trying to argue that WWE has the better overall womens division just based on name recognition are you? because I can't help but feel that you may but I am not sure hence me asking. Because when it comes to overall quality it aint even f***ing close. STARDOM has better characters and match quality would be a complete an utter joke to try and debate.
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Post by mistery on Apr 26, 2022 16:04:18 GMT -5
Well duh, they've been building the division for around a decade depending on where you start (personally I'd say the first NXT women's championship match was the beginning of the end for the diva era) Vs 3 years. It's not really worth comparing directly to Joshi promotions, more important is what happens in the next few years. Every indication is the golden period for women's wrestling in WWE has peaked and they're in the decline. The perfect storm if talent and timing they got with the four horsewomen us unlikely to be repeated, you'd think Japanese women will stay away and there's unlikely to be another Ronda Rousey to boost the profile. Ideal conditions for some in power to shrink the division down. If aew can capatilise on that remains to be seen but at least they're progressing in the right direction even if painfully slowly. There was only one prominent Japanese woman who was still interested in coming to WWE at one point, but that was awhile back, and STARDOM has made great strides to keep her happy, so I doubt she's going anywhere (I'm talking about Giulia). Plus if WWE ever signs a Japanese woman again, it'll probably be from tryouts if they ever tour Japan again, and they'll try and pluck up homegrown talent, although I doubt anyone sane would bite considering STARDOM has a much better learning experience than WWE does (on top of the various other promotions and dojos which will train wrestlers in Japan), and the pay would likely be comparable at this point, on top of not having to uproot your entire life to move to everyone's favorite hellhole, Florida. I would also argue that AEW isn't even moving in the right direction currently. The Owen Hart Tournament as far as I can tell, has zero ACTUAL stakes, on top of the lions share of the focus still being on Britt Baker almost exclusively, while Thunder Rosa (their champion) gets very little actual time. And Tony seems unwilling to change.
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06vwgti
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Post by 06vwgti on Apr 26, 2022 16:57:13 GMT -5
Stardom does exist... but to be the best women's division, you have to have STARS. WWE has mega star level women. So... I mean... no eclipses them there. Just wondering here...you aren't trying to argue that WWE has the better overall womens division just based on name recognition are you? because I can't help but feel that you may but I am not sure hence me asking. . That along with past posts was the impression I got too.
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Post by Mr Mario Mario on Apr 26, 2022 17:16:56 GMT -5
I mean she’s not wrong about the opportunities. Though I would point out that AEW has only existed for about half the time that these opportunities existed since it’s only been 7 years before WWE decided they gave a crap
It’d be like me slagging someone off for having a stupid haircut, yeah I might be right but I’m missing half mine so who am I to talk lol
I feel like who is better could be debated but it’s not a hill I’d think be worthy of dying on
So yeah kinda see her point. As others have said the booking of the division in AEW is one of, if not the major weak point but still……
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