Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,052
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Apr 27, 2022 11:01:33 GMT -5
Overall, Talent wise, the AEW women’s division is miles better than WWE’s.
But Becky’s right, they get showcased a lot more on WWE tv than AEW’s women do. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s better. You can have 3 segments with the women on a RAW and they all suck. Which is often the case. That said, quantity-wise, yeah, Becky Lynch is absolutely correct.
If AEW fans don’t like what she says? Demand they fix it. If Tony Khan gets upset about these comments? Fix it.
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Post by mistery on Apr 27, 2022 11:06:33 GMT -5
Talent wise, the AEW women’s division is miles better than WWE’s. But Becky’s right, they get showcased a lot more on WWE tv than AEW’s women do. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s better. You can have 3 segments with the women on a RAW and they all suck. Which is often the case. That said, quantity-wise, yeah, Becky Lynch is absolute correct. Huh? I wouldn't even say AEW is ahead talent wise either. You have Thunder Rosa, Shida, and Deeb who are their most talented women in the ring, but none get any sort of real actual TV time on a non-rampage/dark/elevation show. Meanwhile you have women like Tay, Britt, and others hogging up a lot of the time for the women, when they really aren't that great in the ring, and in the case of Tay and Britt, both have go away heat at this point. Then there's an absolutely massive dropoff after that. Meanwhile in WWE, you have Asuka, Bianca, Becky, Rhea all on RAW, and then on Smackdown you have Charlotte (even if I think she's a mediocre worker), Sasha, Naomi, and Raquel. That's not counting the women in NXT like Sarray, Io Shirai, Dakota Kai, etc.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,491
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 27, 2022 12:13:27 GMT -5
I mean you also have women like Kris Statlander, Jamie Hayter, Toni Storm, etc as well.
And up and comers like Leyla Hirsch (injured right now sadly TBF).
Put yeah getting them consistent TV time continues to be a struggle.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 27, 2022 12:50:09 GMT -5
Talent wise, the AEW women’s division is miles better than WWE’s. But Becky’s right, they get showcased a lot more on WWE tv than AEW’s women do. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s better. You can have 3 segments with the women on a RAW and they all suck. Which is often the case. That said, quantity-wise, yeah, Becky Lynch is absolute correct. Huh? I wouldn't even say AEW is ahead talent wise either. You have Thunder Rosa, Shida, and Deeb who are their most talented women in the ring, but none get any sort of real actual TV time on a non-rampage/dark/elevation show. Meanwhile you have women like Tay, Britt, and others hogging up a lot of the time for the women, when they really aren't that great in the ring, and in the case of Tay and Britt, both have go away heat at this point. Then there's an absolutely massive dropoff after that. Meanwhile in WWE, you have Asuka, Bianca, Becky, Rhea all on RAW, and then on Smackdown you have Charlotte (even if I think she's a mediocre worker), Sasha, Naomi, and Raquel. That's not counting the women in NXT like Sarray, Io Shirai, Dakota Kai, etc. I really feel like Naomi and Raquel don't belong on the same list as the others. Unless I've missed something and Naomi has recently improved, but she's always had athleticism and a good entrance and nothing else for me. And Raquel has been hit or miss for me, more miss than hit since turning face.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,491
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 27, 2022 13:00:50 GMT -5
Naomi has been doing very well this year. And she is very over with fans as well.
Charlotte’s beat match in, quite awhile, was with Naomi. And she and Rhea had a really fun match a few weeks ago as well.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 27, 2022 13:44:52 GMT -5
I don’t understand why there’s even controversy about her take. It’s just one wrestler’s take.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 238,396
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 27, 2022 14:34:20 GMT -5
Well duh, they've been building the division for around a decade depending on where you start (personally I'd say the first NXT women's championship match was the beginning of the end for the diva era) Vs 3 years. They also have more hours of TV to fill. It's not really worth comparing directly to Joshi promotions, more important is what happens in the next few years. Every indication is the golden period for women's wrestling in WWE has peaked and they're in the decline. The perfect storm if talent and timing they got with the four horsewomen is unlikely to be repeated, you'd think Japanese women will stay away and there's unlikely to be another Ronda Rousey to boost the profile. Ideal conditions for some in power to shrink the division down. If aew can capatilise on that remains to be seen but at least they're progressing in the right direction even if painfully slowly. How long should it take? And why? AEW hasn't subtly laying the groundwork to give the whole division a big push in the coming years - Tony Khan evidently just doesn't think most of them are worth shit. Takes like this are why discussing the AEW Women's division has become exhausting and tedious even in its own forum, let alone here. It's getting to the point where it's so grating and people have just convinced themselves that Khan hates the women that it's like, why even bother? The circle we're spinning around has made a crater into the ground at this point. If Khan didn't think most of them were worth shit, he wouldn't keep signing new women, he wouldn't feature women period, and he wouldn't sign people like Skye Blue, Abadon, Julia Hart, Anna Jay, and AQA, all early 20 somethings clearly being prepped for the future in the division, while having veteran talents and more top end and developing others in said division as well and clearly seeing something in them to want to have them and feature them on the roster. The issue has always been time, and the notion that Khan doesn't give a shit about them is ridiculous. If he didn't care, this division would look like Women of Honor mid 2010's, it doesn't.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,369
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 27, 2022 14:58:20 GMT -5
Well duh, they've been building the division for around a decade depending on where you start (personally I'd say the first NXT women's championship match was the beginning of the end for the diva era) Vs 3 years. They also have more hours of TV to fill. It's not really worth comparing directly to Joshi promotions, more important is what happens in the next few years. Every indication is the golden period for women's wrestling in WWE has peaked and they're in the decline. The perfect storm if talent and timing they got with the four horsewomen is unlikely to be repeated, you'd think Japanese women will stay away and there's unlikely to be another Ronda Rousey to boost the profile. Ideal conditions for some in power to shrink the division down. If aew can capatilise on that remains to be seen but at least they're progressing in the right direction even if painfully slowly. How long should it take? And why? AEW hasn't subtly laying the groundwork to give the whole division a big push in the coming years - Tony Khan evidently just doesn't think most of them are worth shit. I don't disagree that AEW need to get it together, but it took WWE over 30 years. Juuuuust saying.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 27, 2022 15:04:19 GMT -5
Huh? I wouldn't even say AEW is ahead talent wise either. You have Thunder Rosa, Shida, and Deeb who are their most talented women in the ring, but none get any sort of real actual TV time on a non-rampage/dark/elevation show. Meanwhile you have women like Tay, Britt, and others hogging up a lot of the time for the women, when they really aren't that great in the ring, and in the case of Tay and Britt, both have go away heat at this point. Then there's an absolutely massive dropoff after that. Meanwhile in WWE, you have Asuka, Bianca, Becky, Rhea all on RAW, and then on Smackdown you have Charlotte (even if I think she's a mediocre worker), Sasha, Naomi, and Raquel. That's not counting the women in NXT like Sarray, Io Shirai, Dakota Kai, etc. I really feel like Naomi and Raquel don't belong on the same list as the others. Unless I've missed something and Naomi has recently improved, but she's always had athleticism and a good entrance and nothing else for me. And Raquel has been hit or miss for me, more miss than hit since turning face. I've always had the same opinion on Naomi (good athlete but not a good worker as I thought she was lacking from a pacing and psychology standpoint). I haven't watched hardly any Smackdown or much main roster WWE in general the last few years so I can't honestly answer if she's improved any but her recent matches with Charlotte and Rhea got really good reviews pretty much everywhere so maybe she's finally figured it out and put it together. Even if so though it's probably about six or seven years too late with her being around so long as she's almost at ten years on the WWE main which I think is only second to Natalya for seniority. Also it doesn't help that it feels like she really hasn't evolved much at all as a character. I get that people in general have longer shelf lives and last a lot longer then they used but with that being the case I feel they need to do a better job with a lot of these veterans who have been on TV forever to give them fresh coats of paint every year and make tweaks some to keep them fresh. Some they do (Becky, Bayley, Carmella, Alexa) and some they don't (Charlotte, Sasha, Naomi, Natalya).
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 27, 2022 15:18:06 GMT -5
How long should it take? And why? AEW hasn't subtly laying the groundwork to give the whole division a big push in the coming years - Tony Khan evidently just doesn't think most of them are worth shit. I don't disagree that AEW need to get it together, but it took WWE over 30 years. Juuuuust saying. That isn't the own that you think it is lol. You should be learning from the big wrestling company that took forever to get it right so that it doesn't take you 3+ years to still be getting it so wrong. But even then, that it is taking AEW this long to fix their women's divison is a problem. It took WWE about a year and a half to totally revamp and prioritize their women's division. While the seeds were already there since they had the talent, it took them a year plus from the #givedivasachance fiasco to them having Women main eventing a PPV. It doesn't take a company 3+ years to make something an important part of the show IF IT WANTS TO DO THAT. If a company wants to do it, they'll f***ing do it and do it consistently. WWE gave cruiserweights an entire long segments & blocks on their programming with the whole special ring & stuff and their own show. It didn't work but they tried and were consistent with it for a while. Why can't AEW do that after 3+ years now for the women?
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,369
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 27, 2022 15:26:50 GMT -5
I don't disagree that AEW need to get it together, but it took WWE over 30 years. Juuuuust saying. That isn't the own that you think it is lol. You should be learning from the big wrestling company that took forever to get it right so that it doesn't take you 3+ years to still be getting it so wrong. But even then, that it is taking AEW this long to fix their women's divison is a problem. It took WWE about a year and a half to totally revamp and prioritize their women's division. While the seeds were already there since they had the talent, it took them a year plus from the #givedivasachance fiasco to them having Women main eventing a PPV. It doesn't take a company 3+ years to make something an important part of the show IF IT WANTS TO DO THAT. If a company wants to do it, they'll f***ing do it and do it consistently. WWE gave cruiserweights an entire long segments & blocks on their programming with the whole special ring & stuff and their own show. It didn't work but they tried and were consistent with it for a while. Why can't AEW do that after 3+ years now for the women? It wasn't intended to be an own, just a response to the "why is it taking AEW this long?" question. Yes AEW needs to turn it around, but it's problem comes from lack of tv time and angles. It's nowhere near how WWE treated the division from 1999 to 2012.
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schizo
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,608
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Post by schizo on Apr 27, 2022 15:28:20 GMT -5
How long should it take? And why? AEW hasn't subtly laying the groundwork to give the whole division a big push in the coming years - Tony Khan evidently just doesn't think most of them are worth shit. Takes like this are why discussing the AEW Women's division has become exhausting and tedious even in its own forum, let alone here. It's getting to the point where it's so grating and people have just convinced themselves that Khan hates the women that it's like, why even bother? The circle we're spinning around has made a crater into the ground at this point. If Khan didn't think most of them were worth shit, he wouldn't keep signing new women, he wouldn't feature women period, and he wouldn't sign people like Skye Blue, Abadon, Julia Hart, Anna Jay, and AQA, all early 20 somethings clearly being prepped for the future in the division, while having veteran talents and more top end and developing others in said division as well and clearly seeing something in them to want to have them and feature them on the roster. The issue has always been time, and the notion that Khan doesn't give a shit about them is ridiculous. If he didn't care, this division would look like Women of Honor mid 2010's, it doesn't. A lot of the screen time he gives to the mens feuds could easily be given to some of the Woman’s division. But he doesn’t. Even if there isn’t a Woman’s match on the show, he could showcase at least 2 hot feuds from the woman’s division or give them a good amount of promo time to further a feud, but he doesn’t. I wouldn’t say he doesn’t think it’s worth a shit, but he’s not doing a very good job in convincing us otherwise
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,491
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 27, 2022 15:43:53 GMT -5
I’d also say the “it took WWE 30 years” thing is not the big defense that some think it is.
AEW was founded in 2019, when the idea of good women’s wrestling was already taking hold in several companies. This was not the 1980’s when attitudes were VERR different.
And also, they could have looked at where those other company’s dropped the ball before and learned from it.
Also THEY hyped up their big plans for the women at the beginning. People had expectations because AEW set those expectations themselves.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 27, 2022 15:45:25 GMT -5
Takes like this are why discussing the AEW Women's division has become exhausting and tedious even in its own forum, let alone here. It's getting to the point where it's so grating and people have just convinced themselves that Khan hates the women that it's like, why even bother? The circle we're spinning around has made a crater into the ground at this point. If Khan didn't think most of them were worth shit, he wouldn't keep signing new women, he wouldn't feature women period, and he wouldn't sign people like Skye Blue, Abadon, Julia Hart, Anna Jay, and AQA, all early 20 somethings clearly being prepped for the future in the division, while having veteran talents and more top end and developing others in said division as well and clearly seeing something in them to want to have them and feature them on the roster. The issue has always been time, and the notion that Khan doesn't give a shit about them is ridiculous. If he didn't care, this division would look like Women of Honor mid 2010's, it doesn't. A lot of the screen time he gives to the mens feuds could easily be given to some of the Woman’s division. But he doesn’t. Even if there isn’t a Woman’s match on the show, he could showcase at least 2 hot feuds from the woman’s division or give them a good amount of promo time to further a feud, but he doesn’t. I wouldn’t say he doesn’t think it’s worth a shit, but he’s not doing a very good job in convincing us otherwise I do think he cares, I just think he needs to care more than he is. I don't know if he simply thinks he's doing enough, or he just doesn't know how to book the women as frequently as the men, but the outcry for it is obviously getting louder and louder, and he's addressed a ton of criticisms when thrown his way and course corrected, I'm hoping he can do this in the future as well. But I really don't think the division is uncared for, or he wouldn't have even signed Ruby or Toni among others. He has made moves to make it better and give it a foundation, but until he starts showcasing it more outside of two matches a week there's only so much it can keep improving I keep saying you can still do multi women matches, tag matches, trios matches etc to feature more women, storylines, feuds etc even if they did keep it at 2 matches a week, there are ways around this they just need to figure out, preferably sooner than later
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 27, 2022 15:49:55 GMT -5
I’d also say the “it took WWE 30 years” thing is not the big defense that some think it is. AEW was founded in 2019, when the idea of good women’s wrestling was already taking hold in several companies. This was not the 1980’s when attitudes were VERR different. And also, they could have looked at where those other company’s dropped the ball before and learned from it. Also THEY hyped up their big plans for the women at the beginning. People had expectations because AEW set those expectations themselves. Yeah they did have big plans for the division in the beginning, plans that were curbstomped by - Kylie Ray Leaving - Awesome Kong being washed - Allie becoming a manager for awhile and not actively wrestling - A Pandemic that locked out three quarters of their then active roster - Injuries to main stars like Statlander and Baker in this time, leaving the active women's roster at one point as Hikaru Shida, Nyla Rose, Brandi, Allie, Ford, and Anna Jay just about... Like it's really easy to say "AEW should have learned from mistakes or lived up to expectations" but the women's roster has only truly felt like it's gotten back on track in the last like year, because it didn't stumble out the gate, it fell off a cliff, due to several circumstances that weren't exactly the fault of booking. And I feel like due to how hard it was handcuffed, Khan and booking fell into a pattern in the pandemic of one women's match per show because their depth was severely lacking and at that point no one exactly was blaming them Issue is now, there is depth and there is a ton of talent and they're still stuck in what they deem comfortable. They really need to push that comfort zone and do it soon. Two women's matches on a show isn't going to kill a show, at this point AEW's fanbase has been shown to stick around essentially no matter what they're putting on the show, at most you see a drop of like 50K people, which can rebound in the next quarter anyway.
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schizo
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,608
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Post by schizo on Apr 27, 2022 15:53:57 GMT -5
A lot of the screen time he gives to the mens feuds could easily be given to some of the Woman’s division. But he doesn’t. Even if there isn’t a Woman’s match on the show, he could showcase at least 2 hot feuds from the woman’s division or give them a good amount of promo time to further a feud, but he doesn’t. I wouldn’t say he doesn’t think it’s worth a shit, but he’s not doing a very good job in convincing us otherwise I do think he cares, I just think he needs to care more than he is. I don't know if he simply thinks he's doing enough, or he just doesn't know how to book the women as frequently as the men, but the outcry for it is obviously getting louder and louder, and he's addressed a ton of criticisms when thrown his way and course corrected, I'm hoping he can do this in the future as well. But I really don't think the division is uncared for, or he wouldn't have even signed Ruby or Toni among others. He has made moves to make it better and give it a foundation, but until he starts showcasing it more outside of two matches a week there's only so much it can keep improving I keep saying you can still do multi women matches, tag matches, trios matches etc to feature more women, storylines, feuds etc even if they did keep it at 2 matches a week, there are ways around this they just need to figure out, preferably sooner than later My thing is, yeah, he’s signing these great woman’s talent. But it doesn’t mean jack if they’re barely used on TV. Like really, what’s Toni Storm and Ruby Soho doing now that isn’t any different from their final months in WWE?. I’ll go as far and say that at least they were used a little better there, stupid pieface angle notwithstanding.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 27, 2022 16:00:32 GMT -5
I do think he cares, I just think he needs to care more than he is. I don't know if he simply thinks he's doing enough, or he just doesn't know how to book the women as frequently as the men, but the outcry for it is obviously getting louder and louder, and he's addressed a ton of criticisms when thrown his way and course corrected, I'm hoping he can do this in the future as well. But I really don't think the division is uncared for, or he wouldn't have even signed Ruby or Toni among others. He has made moves to make it better and give it a foundation, but until he starts showcasing it more outside of two matches a week there's only so much it can keep improving I keep saying you can still do multi women matches, tag matches, trios matches etc to feature more women, storylines, feuds etc even if they did keep it at 2 matches a week, there are ways around this they just need to figure out, preferably sooner than later My thing is, yeah, he’s signing these great woman’s talent. But it doesn’t mean jack if they’re barely used on TV. Like really, what’s Toni Storm and Ruby Soho doing now that isn’t any different from their final months in WWE?. I’ll go as far and say that at least they were used a little better there, stupid pieface angle notwithstanding. Toni was not used better in WWE even before the pieface angle, she was jobbing out in minutes like in the Queen's Crown tourney to Zelina or disappearing off TV for weeks. They had no idea what to do with her or her "WILD CHILD OF THE 80's" shit they were trying to push. And many will even tell you here her NXT run was kind of meh too. Let's not do revisionist history here. She's been in AEW for a few weeks, won her first match, and has been a feature on TV every week since as they continue to build up her Hayter match in the Owen Hart Tournament, this is far better than literally anything she did in WWE on the main roster at least. And Ruby Soho literally main evented a show of like 17K people in New York for a Womens Title vs Baker. Her time off the last bit was apparently her own decision, she's wanted to coach the girls like Skye and Anna on DARK, and has been doing so in several matches there, until she felt a storyline opened up for her again, and it did as she qualified for The Owen Tournament as well and will be in it. She's also developed a better finisher in her time away which I also think helped. Like, it's not hard to find what's different now than what was different in WWE, they ARE being presented better, more importantly, they're doing shit that seems to be making them happy and content, something that wasn't happening in the other company.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 27, 2022 16:02:45 GMT -5
Honestly I entirely believe that AEW only has a women's division because they realized it'd be bad optically if they didn't.
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Post by cornettesracket on Apr 27, 2022 16:03:58 GMT -5
Overall, Talent wise, the AEW women’s division is miles better than WWE’s. But Becky’s right, they get showcased a lot more on WWE tv than AEW’s women do. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s better. You can have 3 segments with the women on a RAW and they all suck. Which is often the case. That said, quantity-wise, yeah, Becky Lynch is absolutely correct. If AEW fans don’t like what she says? Demand they fix it. If Tony Khan gets upset about these comments? Fix it. Agree with everything else but this part ? Yeah that’s not true.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 27, 2022 16:04:13 GMT -5
Honestly I entirely believe that AEW only has a women's division because they realized it'd be bad optically if they didn't. And I entirely believe that's a load of f***ing bullshit and they've absolutely shown several times and examples that they do care about the girls, they just need to figure out time management and presentation more.
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