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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 19, 2023 12:17:34 GMT -5
I will also say my only concern with an Originals/Homegrown feud is, like, what’s the outcome here? I’m not usually one for that thing because things can change depending on reaction and story (that’s pro wrestling) but Toni and Saraya aren’t leaving the company as a result. Toni’s one of the reasons the division is where it is.
I also would like Ruby to not turn and be a leader for a Homegrown group of some kind because she’d be someone who’d look at the locker room and see underdogs like her who crawled and fought where they are against the entitled big stars coming in. Also, like, she just got the biggest reactions of her life in the street fight, it’s a good way to capitalize on it and lead her to a match against Hayter or Cargill for either belt.
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Post by Hypnosis on Jan 19, 2023 12:17:51 GMT -5
It does kind of feel like a pretty damning indictment of Saraya that she's two matches into her miraculous comeback run and they've already had to turn her heel due to the crowd getting fed up with her. THEY'RE COMING TO CANCEL HER I do think those lyrics of Saraya's theme weren't doing her any favors as a face.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jan 19, 2023 12:34:53 GMT -5
THEY'RE COMING TO CANCEL HER I do think those lyrics of Saraya's theme weren't doing her any favors as a face. I'm legitimately curious how much they've dampened some of the enthusiasm for her. Definitely put me off a bit, not to where I don't want her on TV, but that sense of "Woah Saraya's back in the ring!" faded to "Ugh, what does that mean for what her character will be like" very fast. Enough people with a reaction like that, and that's less of a pop. Enough people who sided with Baker in her feud, less of a pop. Enough people who just find her kinda unlikable the more she's around...etc.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 19, 2023 12:48:15 GMT -5
I will also say my only concern with an Originals/Homegrown feud is, like, what’s the outcome here? I’m not usually one for that thing because things can change depending on reaction and story (that’s pro wrestling) but Toni and Saraya aren’t leaving the company as a result. Toni’s one of the reasons the division is where it is. The other thing is that you *can* do this feud if it's done right. If it isn't, well then you have a perception problem either way. If the AEW home grown win, then AEW brought in talent who couldn't hang. If the "outsiders" win, then AEW women's division is second rate to WWE.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 19, 2023 13:02:53 GMT -5
I do think those lyrics of Saraya's theme weren't doing her any favors as a face. I'm legitimately curious how much they've dampened some of the enthusiasm for her. Definitely put me off a bit, not to where I don't want her on TV, but that sense of "Woah Saraya's back in the ring!" faded to "Ugh, what does that mean for what her character will be like" very fast. Enough people with a reaction like that, and that's less of a pop. Enough people who sided with Baker in her feud, less of a pop. Enough people who just find her kinda unlikable the more she's around...etc. I think the enthusiasm faded when people realized that it really seems like she didn't follow the product and hadn't done her homework prior to coming in. Like if she showed up, had a decent first promo and presented herself in media opportunities, I think people would be more enthusiastic about her being around. Like say what you want about Punk, but Punk came in and knew the young guys and went right to working with them.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 19, 2023 13:05:10 GMT -5
I will also say my only concern with an Originals/Homegrown feud is, like, what’s the outcome here? I’m not usually one for that thing because things can change depending on reaction and story (that’s pro wrestling) but Toni and Saraya aren’t leaving the company as a result. Toni’s one of the reasons the division is where it is. The other thing is that you *can* do this feud if it's done right. If it isn't, well then you have a perception problem either way. If the AEW home grown win, then AEW brought in talent who couldn't hang. If the "outsiders" win, then AEW women's division is second rate to WWE. Which, honestly, feels like the most TNA shit you can do. Like, as a viewer, who gives a shit? It’d be like if one sportscaster went from BBC to Sky and whined about how they don’t do football highlights like the other channel does where the viewer doesn’t care because they just won’t to watch the dang football on any channel. Like, hey, willing to give it a chance but it leads to really stupid arguments here and elsewhere so I’d rather they not had done it at all.
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Jan 19, 2023 13:06:47 GMT -5
I do appreciate that she at least seems to be embracing it.
Toni's turn just feels extremely rushed to me, especially since she still gets good reactions when she's against anyone who isn't Jamie (who'd get cheered over just about anyone who isn't 2018 Becky Lynch). She does have some legitimate kayfabe gripes though, which is why I can't really hate it.
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Post by markymark on Jan 19, 2023 13:52:40 GMT -5
The other thing is that you *can* do this feud if it's done right. If it isn't, well then you have a perception problem either way. If the AEW home grown win, then AEW brought in talent who couldn't hang. If the "outsiders" win, then AEW women's division is second rate to WWE. Which, honestly, feels like the most TNA shit you can do. Like, as a viewer, who gives a shit? It’d be like if one sportscaster went from BBC to Sky and whined about how they don’t do football highlights like the other channel does where the viewer doesn’t care because they just won’t to watch the dang football on any channel. Like, hey, willing to give it a chance but it leads to really stupid arguments here and elsewhere so I’d rather they not had done it at all.
Main Event Mafia vs Frontline story was about Respect perhaps AEW can pivot into that as long as they dont have the Outsiders beating down the originals for months with no comeuppance that the faces become geeks.
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 19, 2023 14:15:31 GMT -5
Someone else pointed out another iffy thing to me.
Toni was not booked well for most of her WWE run. And she’s been quite open about NOT really enjoying herself there.
Ruby was also booked quite poorly in WWE there and then unceremoniously fired as well.
So these women going “oh WWE is better” would feel quite forced.
At least with Saraya she got actually pushed in NXT and early in her MR run. So it makes some sense with her.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 19, 2023 14:23:01 GMT -5
At least plus side with Toni you always have an easy out if you want to bail on the heel run by having her realize she's been corrupted by Saraya and turn around into an easy feud with her.
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Post by darbus alan on Jan 19, 2023 14:39:31 GMT -5
Someone else pointed out another iffy thing to me. Toni was not booked well for most of her WWE run. And she’s been quite open about NOT really enjoying herself there. Ruby was also booked quite poorly in WWE there and then unceremoniously fired as well. So these women going “oh WWE is better” would feel quite forced. At least with Saraya she got actually pushed in NXT and early in her MR run. So it makes some sense with her. I don't know why you keep looping in Ruby with Toni and Saraya when she's still firmly a face and saved Willow from the beat down. Let's get to that bridge first before crossing it.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 19, 2023 14:42:06 GMT -5
I dunno if it's so much about them being from WWE as much as some think. Legit angle can be, nobody cared about the women's division until we showed up.
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 19, 2023 14:53:54 GMT -5
Someone else pointed out another iffy thing to me. Toni was not booked well for most of her WWE run. And she’s been quite open about NOT really enjoying herself there. Ruby was also booked quite poorly in WWE there and then unceremoniously fired as well. So these women going “oh WWE is better” would feel quite forced. At least with Saraya she got actually pushed in NXT and early in her MR run. So it makes some sense with her. I don't know why you keep looping in Ruby with Toni and Saraya when she's still firmly a face and saved Willow from the beat down. Let's get to that bridge first before crossing it. Because a lot of people are thinking Ruby is gonna betray Willow at some point. And I think that that is a very real possibility here. I mean it’s not like this same scenario has not happened in other stories as well.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 19, 2023 15:00:24 GMT -5
I think I'm leaning toward Ruby not turning for the moment just because Saraya and Toni are going to need someone to feud with to cement the turn and they probably don't want to keep having the title tied up in a tag feud as they approach their next PPV, but I could definitely see her turning after losing to them.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 19, 2023 15:20:57 GMT -5
I don't know why you keep looping in Ruby with Toni and Saraya when she's still firmly a face and saved Willow from the beat down. Let's get to that bridge first before crossing it. Because a lot of people are thinking Ruby is gonna betray Willow at some point. And I think that that is a very real possibility here. I mean it’s not like this same scenario has not happened in other stories as well. But it feels like with that we’re putting the cart before the horse. Like, we’re cynical wrestling fans and I get it, but let’s not get annoyed about things that haven’t happened yet.
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 19, 2023 15:32:58 GMT -5
Because a lot of people are thinking Ruby is gonna betray Willow at some point. And I think that that is a very real possibility here. I mean it’s not like this same scenario has not happened in other stories as well. But it feels like with that we’re putting the cart before the horse. Like, we’re cynical wrestling fans and I get it, but let’s not get annoyed about things that haven’t happened yet. I’m not. I’m speaking hypothetically.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 19, 2023 15:34:10 GMT -5
But it feels like with that we’re putting the cart before the horse. Like, we’re cynical wrestling fans and I get it, but let’s not get annoyed about things that haven’t happened yet. I’m not. I’m speaking hypothetically. And hey, that’s fair but from my experience with these things here, they get spread and people get pre-annoyed about stuff easily.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 19, 2023 15:38:32 GMT -5
Saraya has always had an arrogant/unlikeable quality to her even when she's a face. Charlotte and Sasha are the same. Even when they turn face they don't change much and end up coming across heelish so face runs tend to not last very long because they're just natural heels. Sasha and Charlotte's "the Boss" and "the Queen" characters only really make any sense as heels.
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Post by darbus alan on Jan 19, 2023 15:45:20 GMT -5
But it feels like with that we’re putting the cart before the horse. Like, we’re cynical wrestling fans and I get it, but let’s not get annoyed about things that haven’t happened yet. I’m not. I’m speaking hypothetically. A lot of your posts make it sound like you think it's a fait accompli and not merely a hypothetical.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 19, 2023 15:47:22 GMT -5
Someone else pointed out another iffy thing to me. Toni was not booked well for most of her WWE run. And she’s been quite open about NOT really enjoying herself there. Ruby was also booked quite poorly in WWE there and then unceremoniously fired as well. So these women going “oh WWE is better” would feel quite forced. At least with Saraya she got actually pushed in NXT and early in her MR run. So it makes some sense with her. It honestly sounds quite common from I've heard in the sports world. You'll hear tons of stories of guys who had a miserable time on big time teams and then as soon as they go somewhere else they deem "smaller" they're unhappy there and complain that their team/teammates aren't good enough for them.
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