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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 14, 2023 0:46:49 GMT -5
OK, I promised this to Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] when I got home, so here are the win/loss records for the call-ups/returns that have come to the women's division since Triple H took over: Candice LeRae: 3-7-0 Chelsea Green: 0-4-0 Dakota Kai: 12-6-0 Emma: 0-6-0 Iyo Sky: 14-6-1 Mia Yim: 3-6-1 Tegan Nox: 2-3-0 You also have the valets B-Fab (0-1-0) and Scarlett (1-0-0) having matches on record.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 14, 2023 0:52:37 GMT -5
OK, I promised this to Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] when I got home, so here are the win/loss records for the call-ups/returns that have come to the women's division since Triple H took over: Candice LeRae: 3-7-0 Chelsea Green: 0-4-0 Dakota Kai: 12-6-0 Emma: 0-6-0 Iyo Sky: 14-6-1 Mia Yim: 3-6-1 Tegan Nox: 2-3-0 You also have the valets B-Fab (0-1-0) and Scarlett (1-0-0) having matches on record. Ok Iyo was never fired so I wouldn't include her for this specific rundown, but that leaves us with a very sorry looking bunch of returning girls, I also believe Zelina was never actually released but she'd be 0-7 in matches since December when she came back. If you don't factor in Dakota who has been relatively protected in Damage CTRL, the women who have returned to WWE in the HHH era are a combined 8-26-1 That's... that's horrifyingly terrible, it'd be bad if that was a single woman's record but it's five women... and even if you included Dakota it'd be 20-32-1, and she'd be about 70 percent of the wins...
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Feb 14, 2023 0:53:29 GMT -5
What it needs is to ramp up the exposure to the scary, scary men who are weirdly super into women's wrestling.
It's playing to your audience with no terrifying consequences.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 14, 2023 0:59:40 GMT -5
OK, I promised this to Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] when I got home, so here are the win/loss records for the call-ups/returns that have come to the women's division since Triple H took over: Candice LeRae: 3-7-0 Chelsea Green: 0-4-0 Dakota Kai: 12-6-0 Emma: 0-6-0 Iyo Sky: 14-6-1 Mia Yim: 3-6-1 Tegan Nox: 2-3-0 You also have the valets B-Fab (0-1-0) and Scarlett (1-0-0) having matches on record. Ok Iyo was never fired so I wouldn't include her for this specific rundown, but that leaves us with a very sorry looking bunch of returning girls, I also believe Zelina was never actually released but she'd be 0-7 in matches since December when she came back. If you don't factor in Dakota who has been relatively protected in Damage CTRL, the women who have returned to WWE in the HHH era are a combined 8-26-1 That's... that's horrifyingly terrible, it'd be bad if that was a single woman's record but it's five women... and even if you included Dakota it'd be 20-32-1, and she'd be about 70 percent of the wins... I wish I knew a practical solution here. These are all women that didn’t deserve to be cut in the first place, so they’ve all still gotta be around. You can’t turn around and turn Belair and Flair into glorified jobbers for these women because eventually it stops meaning anything when you beat them. Hell, look at Lynch, she spent the last month or two largely trying to put over Damage CTRL and all that happened was people saying that she didn’t feel like a big star anymore. And at some point, it’s not just the other women you’re competing with for time and attention, it’s the male roster too, who also have their own collective of underutilised midcarders with questionable win/loss records.
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 14, 2023 1:03:10 GMT -5
They really just need to pick say three women from NXT who they are both ready and whom they feel can all be stars and important members of the roster and just really push them. It would be a breath air and it would give the roster some much needed youth and energy instead of bunch of veterans in their mid 30's sleep walking through matches. The funny thing is, this is precisely what they did with Belair, Ripley and probably Rodriguez. They called their shot with this like two years ago. Yet at this precise moment, Belair’s been booked so strong, she’s now part of the problem we’re looking for a solution to, Ripley’s only not there right now BECAUSE she wasn’t given the same hyper-rocket to the moon and has taken lumps along the way, and Rodriguez isn’t exactly setting the world on fire. It's not exact, but there's some interesting analogies between Charlotte/Bianca and Becky/Rhea. The former were the PC-trained stars and natural athletes who got the push basically from the moment they debuted on the main roster, while the latter both started in the indies at a young age, had an early title run that wasn't booked the strongest (Rhea's Plan C title run from WM37, Becky's 2016 title run without a single PPV defense), but only had their major run after a couple of years of relative adversity that helped get fans behind them. And assuming Charlotte drops the SD title at Mania, in both cases it took them beating Charlotte to really show they'd ascended.
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 14, 2023 1:04:37 GMT -5
Ok Iyo was never fired so I wouldn't include her for this specific rundown, but that leaves us with a very sorry looking bunch of returning girls, I also believe Zelina was never actually released but she'd be 0-7 in matches since December when she came back. If you don't factor in Dakota who has been relatively protected in Damage CTRL, the women who have returned to WWE in the HHH era are a combined 8-26-1 That's... that's horrifyingly terrible, it'd be bad if that was a single woman's record but it's five women... and even if you included Dakota it'd be 20-32-1, and she'd be about 70 percent of the wins... I wish I knew a practical solution here. These are all women that didn’t deserve to be cut in the first place, so they’ve all still gotta be around. You can’t turn around and turn Belair and Flair into glorified jobbers for these women because eventually it stops meaning anything when you beat them. Hell, look at Lynch, she spent the last month or two largely trying to put over Damage CTRL and all that happened was people saying that she didn’t feel like a big star anymore. And at some point, it’s not just the other women you’re competing with for time and attention, it’s the male roster too, who also have their own collective of underutilised midcarders with questionable win/loss records.
That's also part of the dilemma with Bianca. It feels like a loss would be beneficial and give a route to freshening her character, but then she's been built up so long and beaten so many people that you also need to be careful with that moment, you need it to be big and to go to someone ideally who can run with it.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 14, 2023 1:04:40 GMT -5
Ok Iyo was never fired so I wouldn't include her for this specific rundown, but that leaves us with a very sorry looking bunch of returning girls, I also believe Zelina was never actually released but she'd be 0-7 in matches since December when she came back. If you don't factor in Dakota who has been relatively protected in Damage CTRL, the women who have returned to WWE in the HHH era are a combined 8-26-1 That's... that's horrifyingly terrible, it'd be bad if that was a single woman's record but it's five women... and even if you included Dakota it'd be 20-32-1, and she'd be about 70 percent of the wins... I wish I knew a practical solution here. These are all women that didn’t deserve to be cut in the first place, so they’ve all still gotta be around. You can’t turn around and turn Belair and Flair into glorified jobbers for these women because eventually it stops meaning anything when you beat them. Hell, look at Lynch, she spent the last month or two largely trying to put over Damage CTRL and all that happened was people saying that she didn’t feel like a big star anymore. And at some point, it’s not just the other women you’re competing with for time and attention, it’s the male roster too, who also have their own collective of underutilised midcarders with questionable win/loss records. I still feel like it highlights the divide in the division though, hell we've already had people talking about how the women's chamber doesn't look great, it's a problem that WWE's had for years, only pushing about four women at once between two brands I get you need fodder, but all of the women coming back and essentially being fodder for the same 4-5 girls really doesn't leave much room for growth. It does give you a midcard, but it also gives you Michin vs Piper Niven, where the crowd doesn't care, because WWE hasn't cared about booking Michin as an attraction and Piper's been gone for months... these are issues where it'd be best to actually keep women in the midcard competent and give them some compelling feuds... and they really aren't, they're just fodder.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 14, 2023 4:02:20 GMT -5
I think they need to COMMIT to building some new top stars. A lot of the women at the top are ones who have been there for quite some time. Rhea feels like the only one new woman recently that they’ve committed to elevating.
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Post by mistery on Feb 14, 2023 7:07:19 GMT -5
Ok Iyo was never fired so I wouldn't include her for this specific rundown, but that leaves us with a very sorry looking bunch of returning girls, I also believe Zelina was never actually released but she'd be 0-7 in matches since December when she came back. If you don't factor in Dakota who has been relatively protected in Damage CTRL, the women who have returned to WWE in the HHH era are a combined 8-26-1 That's... that's horrifyingly terrible, it'd be bad if that was a single woman's record but it's five women... and even if you included Dakota it'd be 20-32-1, and she'd be about 70 percent of the wins... I wish I knew a practical solution here. These are all women that didn’t deserve to be cut in the first place, so they’ve all still gotta be around. You can’t turn around and turn Belair and Flair into glorified jobbers for these women because eventually it stops meaning anything when you beat them. Hell, look at Lynch, she spent the last month or two largely trying to put over Damage CTRL and all that happened was people saying that she didn’t feel like a big star anymore. And at some point, it’s not just the other women you’re competing with for time and attention, it’s the male roster too, who also have their own collective of underutilised midcarders with questionable win/loss records. I mean in the case of Damage CTRL they could have been handled significantly better. Triple H decided to get cute though and have them lose in the tag finals to Raquel and Aliyah just for the sake of an awful swerve that did a ton of harm to them. And then you had Bianca completely chump on them for months, no selling them as a threat. The ladder match is basically what ended them as a threat with Bianca taking them out all at the same time. Bianca's booking is utterly exhausting and I feel like this is going to cause harm to WWE at some point when it comes to trying to sign more women from the indies. Because as long as Bianca is champion, no woman (at least indy wise) is going to want to sign with WWE because there is a hard ceiling over their heads.
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 14, 2023 7:26:00 GMT -5
Ok Iyo was never fired so I wouldn't include her for this specific rundown, but that leaves us with a very sorry looking bunch of returning girls, I also believe Zelina was never actually released but she'd be 0-7 in matches since December when she came back. If you don't factor in Dakota who has been relatively protected in Damage CTRL, the women who have returned to WWE in the HHH era are a combined 8-26-1 That's... that's horrifyingly terrible, it'd be bad if that was a single woman's record but it's five women... and even if you included Dakota it'd be 20-32-1, and she'd be about 70 percent of the wins... I wish I knew a practical solution here. These are all women that didn’t deserve to be cut in the first place, so they’ve all still gotta be around. You can’t turn around and turn Belair and Flair into glorified jobbers for these women because eventually it stops meaning anything when you beat them. Hell, look at Lynch, she spent the last month or two largely trying to put over Damage CTRL and all that happened was people saying that she didn’t feel like a big star anymore. And at some point, it’s not just the other women you’re competing with for time and attention, it’s the male roster too, who also have their own collective of underutilised midcarders with questionable win/loss records. It also doesn't help that so many of them don't have character driven direction.
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J is Justice
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Post by J is Justice on Feb 14, 2023 8:02:02 GMT -5
I think a lot of the problem is the lack of new blood. Or more specifically new blood that matters and feels like it could potentially go somewhere. It's a very veteran heavy roster with mainly women who have been there six years or more or women who have been brought back but are pegged as lowercard jobbers. Therefore as a result with the exception of Rhea it feels like there's really no energy or anything to get excited about as it's mainly women who have been there a long time and at this point know where they stand when it comes to their place in the company. I would say of the midcard woman the only one who feels like they are on a good trajectory and might be someone who matters in the future is Raquel Rodriguez. Everyone else are present stars who they are putting all their eggs in the basket (Bianca, Rhea), have been big players for years and aren't very interesting anymore (Becky, Bayley, Charlotte), had title runs and brief flirts with the main event scene that didn't work and are now slotted as midcarders (Carmella, Liv), or never will be's (Xia Li, Emma, Dana Brooke). Therefore it's hard to care or get excited because there's nobody who feels it's worth getting invested into. They really just need to pick say three women from NXT who they are both ready and whom they feel can all be stars and important members of the roster and just really push them. It would be a breath air and it would give the roster some much needed youth and energy instead of bunch of veterans in their mid 30's sleep walking through matches. At 26, Rhea's the youngest woman on the main roster. As for Raquel, they do tend to give her that bit of protection--note how even tonight Asuka only took her out because she was already dealing with Carmella and Nikki on her. I think she's got a good year ahead of her but it will be interesting to see how they build her.
Man, I always forget how young Rhea is.
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J is Justice
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Hi.
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Post by J is Justice on Feb 14, 2023 8:04:53 GMT -5
I think splitting Damage CTRL would help a lot because then you'd have IYO and Dakota ready for a push. I really wish they'd get rid of the tag belts and have a singles mid-card belt instead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2023 8:33:34 GMT -5
First and foremost there needs to be a hierarchy and no I do not consider what they do now and have been doing for years on the main roster(only the champion and the challenger at the time matter) a hieracrchy.
I am talking about you have your top women the ones you can always rely on to carry big matches and can freely feud with any other woman.
Then have your mid card women who can bounce up into the main level to be a credible challenger and possibly become a main stay in the top of the card
then below that women who likely are never going to win the top title but given enough attention can be can occasional challenger
Then you got the women who have no hope who the top and midcard women run through easily.
Because right now there is none of this outside of the champion and so if perception is indeed reality...the reality is no one is better than Bianca and Charlotte and every other woman is a useless fodderific loser is what has been happening.
Get rid of the womens tag titles...there is no f***ing division so why these still exsist baffles me but get rid of it and establish a midcard equivient to STARDOM's white belt , the belt that depending on who is holding it can be bigger than the main title even , which it was for a time when Io on a god tier run established it and MoMo then had her run with it.
NO MORE YEAR+ LENGTH RUNS!!!! for gawd sakes we need this division to feel competitive for f*** sakes....it is largely what is killing this division. establish one woman and she terminators her way through the division and then is left with nothing because all the so callengers were treated as nothing but fodder , I hope to gawd Rhea only has a 3-4 month run it does not need to be long with her trouncing every woman that got trounced before hand.
I am sure there is more but that is just off th top of my head for now.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 14, 2023 8:36:08 GMT -5
I do actually think, as bad as they are in general, selective "hot potato" title booking has its place. Whoever Bianca loses to shouldn't have the belt for very long. Keep it moving a little bit.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 14, 2023 8:43:00 GMT -5
And just one more thing for me. The solution to “I don’t like this person winning all the time” isn’t “This other person should win all the time”. I don’t give a f*** how good Asuka is.
Like, either the booking trope is the issue, or it isn’t and you just don’t like the fact that your favourite isn’t the beneficiary of it.
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 14, 2023 9:05:46 GMT -5
And just one more thing for me. The solution to “I don’t like this person winning all the time” isn’t “This other person should win all the time”. I don’t give a f*** how good Asuka is. Like, either the booking trope is the issue, or it isn’t and you just don’t like the fact that your favourite isn’t the beneficiary of it. And we need to decide if "____ wins all the time" or "GGRRRR 50/50 booking" is a bigger problem.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 14, 2023 9:06:34 GMT -5
And just one more thing for me. The solution to “I don’t like this person winning all the time” isn’t “This other person should win all the time”. I don’t give a f*** how good Asuka is. Like, either the booking trope is the issue, or it isn’t and you just don’t like the fact that your favourite isn’t the beneficiary of it. And we need to decide if "____ wins all the time" or "GGRRRR 50/50 booking" is a bigger problem. Put my vote down for the latter.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,822
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 14, 2023 9:07:59 GMT -5
And we need to decide if "____ wins all the time" or "GGRRRR 50/50 booking" is a bigger problem. Put my vote down for the latter. Oh, I agree. But there's a large segment that gets stabby with 50/50 booking
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Feb 14, 2023 9:19:30 GMT -5
And just one more thing for me. The solution to “I don’t like this person winning all the time” isn’t “This other person should win all the time”. I don’t give a f*** how good Asuka is. Like, either the booking trope is the issue, or it isn’t and you just don’t like the fact that your favourite isn’t the beneficiary of it. Not sure I agree with that. Every trope has good and bad examples, the execution and people involved matter. Hell one of the biggest booking issues for years was WWE forcing people into tropes that didn't suit them. Even if you reduce it to Roman winning all the time people's reaction often differs between forced face, early tribal chief and recent stuff with Sami.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 14, 2023 9:23:17 GMT -5
SDL is REALLY bad in this right now. Aside from Charlotte and MAYBE Ronda (although even she has fallen pretty far), no one in that division feels like a big deal.
It’s part of why the booking of the six women tag last night annoyed me quite a bit.
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