schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
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Post by schma on Nov 13, 2023 9:40:17 GMT -5
It says a lot that even the people who saw this movie and didn’t dislike it can only focus on other people not liking it and saying “It was fun I guess! Ever try not hating fun?” because there doesn’t seem to be too much to say about the film itself one way or the other. I’ll watch it when it hits Disney+ but the trailers have been so soulless and even barring the strike, which I am sure did a number on the media tour for the movie, there’s so little hype behind it and not really any angle I can see them taking to tell a story that will be compelling, and that’s as someone who enjoyed the Ms. Marvel show. I’m glad Marvel seems to be taking a step back and reevaluating their plans going forward because I used to see every MCU day one but a lot of the shows and the movies lately have been mediocre, unfocused, and even visually charmless and unappealing. I want them to turn it back around because I like when things are good, because I enjoy having good things to watch, and I’m really looking forward to Echo as an example of the kind of focused, character-driven storytelling with clean action that I want them to get back to. This is like the third MCU movie in a row where I’m like “naaaahhhh I’ve gotta wait on this one” which would have been unthinkable to me a few years ago but Eternals was really a turning point for me. While "it's fun" has been a common refrain from many of us, several of us did give more concrete thoughts on why we had fun and what we enjoyed.
Iman Vellani stole the show and continued to show why she was the correct choice for Ms Marvel. The 3 main actors had great chemistry. As a sequel it touches on a lot of the threads from the first and does a good job of following up despite all that's come between them. The comedy generally hits though your mileage may vary. However, even for those who didn't enjoy the comedy, it rarely overstayed its welcome.
It does not require you to have watched the D+ shows, though I do feel that the Ms Marvel show would give those unfamiliar with the character a better sense of what she's about (her family is quite important to her, which is partly why they are as prominent as thy are).
The tricky thing is, we're trying to avoid too many spoilers and I feel some of the negatives do get into spoiler zone.
That said, I feel like the villain could have been better developed. We got the briefest of reasons for why they're doing what they're doing but it didn't quite hit true. They just kinda felt flat. However, this has been true of past MCU villains going all the way back to the first Iron Man.
I'd say the movie is a 6.5 or 7/10. Above average but not particularly amazing or anything. That said, I genuinely had fun watching it.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on Nov 13, 2023 9:43:40 GMT -5
Have a feeling that The Marvels will gross less the 2nd weekend than Five Nights at Freddys and Thanksgiving FNAF doing so well at the Box Office surprises me a bit since it's been on Peacock since it opened. Maybe that says more about Peacock being dog feces than anything else. LOL
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,311
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Post by salz4life on Nov 13, 2023 9:45:53 GMT -5
I know there have been exceptions to the rule, but it feels to me the theaters have never recovered from the pandemic. Just feels to me we're getting a lot more box office bombs than we ever did before covid hit hard. I'm sure there are other factors, like fatigue and such, but just feels like theaters have taken a beating and haven't recovered as of yet and it may never be like it was. Only movies I've gone to that had more than just a little handful of people were, not surprisingly, Barbie and Oppenheimer. Granted I went on Friday late morning/early afternoon, but there were only 4 people in the theater including me when I saw The Marvels.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Nov 13, 2023 9:56:53 GMT -5
It says a lot that even the people who saw this movie and didn’t dislike it can only focus on other people not liking it and saying “It was fun I guess! Ever try not hating fun?” because there doesn’t seem to be too much to say about the film itself one way or the other. I’ll watch it when it hits Disney+ but the trailers have been so soulless and even barring the strike, which I am sure did a number on the media tour for the movie, there’s so little hype behind it and not really any angle I can see them taking to tell a story that will be compelling, and that’s as someone who enjoyed the Ms. Marvel show. I’m glad Marvel seems to be taking a step back and reevaluating their plans going forward because I used to see every MCU day one but a lot of the shows and the movies lately have been mediocre, unfocused, and even visually charmless and unappealing. I want them to turn it back around because I like when things are good, because I enjoy having good things to watch, and I’m really looking forward to Echo as an example of the kind of focused, character-driven storytelling with clean action that I want them to get back to. This is like the third MCU movie in a row where I’m like “naaaahhhh I’ve gotta wait on this one” which would have been unthinkable to me a few years ago but Eternals was really a turning point for me. While "it's fun" has been a common refrain from many of us, several of us did give more concrete thoughts on why we had fun and what we enjoyed. Iman Vellani stole the show and continued to show why she was the correct choice for Ms Marvel. The 3 main actors had great chemistry. As a sequel it touches on a lot of the threads from the first and does a good job of following up despite all that's come between them. The comedy generally hits though your mileage may vary. However, even for those who didn't enjoy the comedy, it rarely overstayed its welcome. It does not require you to have watched the D+ shows, though I do feel that the Ms Marvel show would give those unfamiliar with the character a better sense of what she's about (her family is quite important to her, which is partly why they are as prominent as thy are). The tricky thing is, we're trying to avoid too many spoilers and I feel some of the negatives do get into spoiler zone. That said, I feel like the villain could have been better developed. We got the briefest of reasons for why they're doing what they're doing but it didn't quite hit true. They just kinda felt flat. However, this has been true of past MCU villains going all the way back to the first Iron Man. I'd say the movie is a 6.5 or 7/10. Above average but not particularly amazing or anything. That said, I genuinely had fun watching it.
This is where I'm at. Like I said in my first post, I think it just made me want more Ms. Marvel content than it did anything else. 100% on the same page about the villain and for me, personally, there was a moment about mid-movie that kind of felt like a pretty dramatic detour in terms of tone and they lost me for a bit, but I wound up enjoying it. My hot take is that the MCU movies worked because they "killed" off a bunch of heroes and that had never been seen on screen before and that's what made it become an event. I don't think The Marvels is truly all that different from some of the other MCU standalone flicks.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Nov 13, 2023 10:18:29 GMT -5
While "it's fun" has been a common refrain from many of us, several of us did give more concrete thoughts on why we had fun and what we enjoyed. Iman Vellani stole the show and continued to show why she was the correct choice for Ms Marvel. The 3 main actors had great chemistry. As a sequel it touches on a lot of the threads from the first and does a good job of following up despite all that's come between them. The comedy generally hits though your mileage may vary. However, even for those who didn't enjoy the comedy, it rarely overstayed its welcome. It does not require you to have watched the D+ shows, though I do feel that the Ms Marvel show would give those unfamiliar with the character a better sense of what she's about (her family is quite important to her, which is partly why they are as prominent as thy are). The tricky thing is, we're trying to avoid too many spoilers and I feel some of the negatives do get into spoiler zone. That said, I feel like the villain could have been better developed. We got the briefest of reasons for why they're doing what they're doing but it didn't quite hit true. They just kinda felt flat. However, this has been true of past MCU villains going all the way back to the first Iron Man. I'd say the movie is a 6.5 or 7/10. Above average but not particularly amazing or anything. That said, I genuinely had fun watching it.
This is where I'm at. Like I said in my first post, I think it just made me want more Ms. Marvel content than it did anything else. 100% on the same page about the villain and for me, personally, there was a moment about mid-movie that kind of felt like a pretty dramatic detour in terms of tone and they lost me for a bit, but I wound up enjoying it. My hot take is that the MCU movies worked because they "killed" off a bunch of heroes and that had never been seen on screen before and that's what made it become an event. I don't think The Marvels is truly all that different from some of the other MCU standalone flicks. I think the D+ strategy is part of what hurt them. Trying to tie in too much from the shows into future movies is great if you’ve see the shows but if you only watch the movies you have zero investment in Kamala and Monica. This is your first exposure to them past Monica being a child. Same with the movie ending surprise cameo. That group forming means nothing if you’re not a comics fan or haven’t watched every D+ show.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Nov 13, 2023 10:19:37 GMT -5
Inflation hitting everything hard and making things more expensive doesn’t help either. Yeah, with everything doubling and tripling in some cases. Everything except wages, of course. All the more reason why folks would rather wait until movies hit streaming. If you're already giving Disney so much every month for Plus, why go out of your way to give them another $10-20 per person for a movie, without even getting into gas, parking, concessions, etc?
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,511
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Post by schma on Nov 13, 2023 10:25:33 GMT -5
This is where I'm at. Like I said in my first post, I think it just made me want more Ms. Marvel content than it did anything else. 100% on the same page about the villain and for me, personally, there was a moment about mid-movie that kind of felt like a pretty dramatic detour in terms of tone and they lost me for a bit, but I wound up enjoying it. My hot take is that the MCU movies worked because they "killed" off a bunch of heroes and that had never been seen on screen before and that's what made it become an event. I don't think The Marvels is truly all that different from some of the other MCU standalone flicks. I think the D+ strategy is part of what hurt them. Trying to tie in too much from the shows into future movies is great if you’ve see the shows but if you only watch the movies you have zero investment in Kamala and Monica. This is your first exposure to them past Monica being a child. Same with the movie ending surprise cameo. That group forming means nothing if you’re not a comics fan or haven’t watched every D+ show. It's a balancing act though. There's a portion of the audience that will never see the shows, just like there's a portion of the audience that will only ever engage with Star Wars if it's in movie format. You can run into situations like Doctor Strange where people are confused and wondering why Wanda is suddenly a villain (if they hadnt seen Wandavision). I do think if people have seen the Ms. Marvel series it would definitely enrich that part but it's not nearly as necessary. I think with Monica, they should have touched a bit more on the issues she had with Carol and why. It was touched on, but it didn't feel like that moment got to breathe properly.
I do think the bit at the end could kinda be guessed by those not familiar with the comics, though as you said they may not be excited. The same could be said for the cameos with Starfox and Pip as well. Hell, I know who Starfox is and I was kinda confused to see him in the MCU.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Nov 13, 2023 10:41:11 GMT -5
I think the D+ strategy is part of what hurt them. Trying to tie in too much from the shows into future movies is great if you’ve see the shows but if you only watch the movies you have zero investment in Kamala and Monica. This is your first exposure to them past Monica being a child. Same with the movie ending surprise cameo. That group forming means nothing if you’re not a comics fan or haven’t watched every D+ show. It's a balancing act though. There's a portion of the audience that will never see the shows, just like there's a portion of the audience that will only ever engage with Star Wars if it's in movie format. You can run into situations like Doctor Strange where people are confused and wondering why Wanda is suddenly a villain (if they hadnt seen Wandavision). I do think if people have seen the Ms. Marvel series it would definitely enrich that part but it's not nearly as necessary. I think with Monica, they should have touched a bit more on the issues she had with Carol and why. It was touched on, but it didn't feel like that moment got to breathe properly. I do think the bit at the end could kinda be guessed by those not familiar with the comics, though as you said they may not be excited. The same could be said for the cameos with Starfox and Pip as well. Hell, I know who Starfox is and I was kinda confused to see him in the MCU.
WandaVision was even worse because they completely disregarded it while making Multiverse of Madness. The screenwriters did a shit job keeping it all in order.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,408
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Post by Fade on Nov 13, 2023 11:49:49 GMT -5
I know there have been exceptions to the rule, but it feels to me the theaters have never recovered from the pandemic. Just feels to me we're getting a lot more box office bombs than we ever did before covid hit hard. I'm sure there are other factors, like fatigue and such, but just feels like theaters have taken a beating and haven't recovered as of yet and it may never be like it was. Inflation hitting everything hard and making things more expensive doesn’t help either. Good point. Going to the grocery store costs an arm and three legs; imagine a big ass family at the theaters.
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Post by darbus alan on Nov 13, 2023 11:57:27 GMT -5
Even before the pandemic, going to the movies was expensive as hell. Now it's even worse on top of inflation, and it's not like Covid has been wiped off the face of the earth either.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,311
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Post by salz4life on Nov 13, 2023 12:02:25 GMT -5
This is where I'm at. Like I said in my first post, I think it just made me want more Ms. Marvel content than it did anything else. 100% on the same page about the villain and for me, personally, there was a moment about mid-movie that kind of felt like a pretty dramatic detour in terms of tone and they lost me for a bit, but I wound up enjoying it. My hot take is that the MCU movies worked because they "killed" off a bunch of heroes and that had never been seen on screen before and that's what made it become an event. I don't think The Marvels is truly all that different from some of the other MCU standalone flicks. I think the D+ strategy is part of what hurt them. Trying to tie in too much from the shows into future movies is great if you’ve see the shows but if you only watch the movies you have zero investment in Kamala and Monica. This is your first exposure to them past Monica being a child. Same with the movie ending surprise cameo. That group forming means nothing if you’re not a comics fan or haven’t watched every D+ show. I do think there could be something to that. I think moving forward they aren't going to do that as much going forward (for example Echo is going to be sort of self contained). {Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}I feel like the end scene with Kamala meeting up with Kate is them trying to start anew with the Young Avengers. Whether it ultimately works is certainly up for debate and the dudebros aren't going to like that, for now, it is female centric... but I think it's a solid idea. I think some of the "fatigue" and pushback also has to do with people wanting the X-Men and Fantastic Four since Disney took the Fox properties back.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Nov 13, 2023 12:09:47 GMT -5
I think the D+ strategy is part of what hurt them. Trying to tie in too much from the shows into future movies is great if you’ve see the shows but if you only watch the movies you have zero investment in Kamala and Monica. This is your first exposure to them past Monica being a child. Same with the movie ending surprise cameo. That group forming means nothing if you’re not a comics fan or haven’t watched every D+ show. I do think there could be something to that. I think moving forward they aren't going to do that as much going forward (for example Echo is going to be sort of self contained). {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}I feel like the end scene with Kamala meeting up with Kate is them trying to start anew with the Young Avengers. Whether it ultimately works is certainly up for debate and the dudebros aren't going to like that, for now, it is female centric... but I think it's a solid idea. I think some of the "fatigue" and pushback also has to do with people wanting the X-Men and Fantastic Four since Disney took the Fox properties back. My big problem with that cameo… {Spoiler}…is that while it’s cute and all having Kamala riff on Fury’s role in Iron Man…we’re about to jump into the Kang Dynasty. A Kang Variant is a major part of the Young Avengers in the comics. Loki season 2 showed that there’s good guy Kang variants out there. There’s no reason the Council of Kangs shouldn’t hand the active Avengers their ass and Iron Lad unites the Young Avengers as a resistance. Tie it all together with some real stakes.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,498
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Nov 13, 2023 12:27:38 GMT -5
I think the D+ strategy is part of what hurt them. Trying to tie in too much from the shows into future movies is great if you’ve see the shows but if you only watch the movies you have zero investment in Kamala and Monica. This is your first exposure to them past Monica being a child. Same with the movie ending surprise cameo. That group forming means nothing if you’re not a comics fan or haven’t watched every D+ show. It's a balancing act though. There's a portion of the audience that will never see the shows, just like there's a portion of the audience that will only ever engage with Star Wars if it's in movie format. You can run into situations like Doctor Strange where people are confused and wondering why Wanda is suddenly a villain (if they hadnt seen Wandavision). I do think if people have seen the Ms. Marvel series it would definitely enrich that part but it's not nearly as necessary. I think with Monica, they should have touched a bit more on the issues she had with Carol and why. It was touched on, but it didn't feel like that moment got to breathe properly. I do think the bit at the end could kinda be guessed by those not familiar with the comics, though as you said they may not be excited. The same could be said for the cameos with Starfox and Pip as well. Hell, I know who Starfox is and I was kinda confused to see him in the MCU.
Yeah, not seeing WandaVision would have been very confusing. They really needed someone who was out of the loop to have received an exposition dump to help it make sense. I’ve not watched Ms. Marvel (he’ll, I’ve yet to watch Loki S2 and I was looking forward to that one), so I wonder how lost I’d be. Since Endgame I’ve only watched MoM, Guardians 3, Guardians Christmas special, WandaVision, Falcon & WS, Loki S1, and She-Hulk.
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,511
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Post by schma on Nov 13, 2023 12:42:42 GMT -5
It's a balancing act though. There's a portion of the audience that will never see the shows, just like there's a portion of the audience that will only ever engage with Star Wars if it's in movie format. You can run into situations like Doctor Strange where people are confused and wondering why Wanda is suddenly a villain (if they hadnt seen Wandavision). I do think if people have seen the Ms. Marvel series it would definitely enrich that part but it's not nearly as necessary. I think with Monica, they should have touched a bit more on the issues she had with Carol and why. It was touched on, but it didn't feel like that moment got to breathe properly. I do think the bit at the end could kinda be guessed by those not familiar with the comics, though as you said they may not be excited. The same could be said for the cameos with Starfox and Pip as well. Hell, I know who Starfox is and I was kinda confused to see him in the MCU.
Yeah, not seeing WandaVision would have been very confusing. They really needed someone who was out of the loop to have received an exposition dump to help it make sense. I’ve not watched Ms. Marvel (he’ll, I’ve yet to watch Loki S2 and I was looking forward to that one), so I wonder how lost I’d be. Since Endgame I’ve only watched MoM, Guardians 3, Guardians Christmas special, WandaVision, Falcon & WS, Loki S1, and She-Hulk. With the Marvels I don't think you'd be lost at all. You might wonder why Ms. Marvels family gets so much screen time, but apart from that if you've seen the first Captain Marvel you should be able to pick up the beats easy enough. That said, I do feel Ms. Marvel would give you a better appreciation for Kamala if you don't know her yet.
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,511
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Post by schma on Nov 13, 2023 12:49:31 GMT -5
One thing, I think the pandemic really messed with things. Yes I know that probably seems obvious, there were numerous series delays, reshoots required, Wandavision had to change its ending and so on.
What I'm getting at though is a complaint I've seen about Marvel since Endgame is that it feels like it's meandering, like it's not going anywhere or that it's taking too long to get where it's going. I almost wonder if there had been no pandemic and everything had been able to come out on schedule if that would still hold true. I imagine to some degree it would, but perhaps we'd be a year or more further into the plan, potentially already at Kang Dynasty. If that were the case would we still see as many of those talking points?
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,408
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Post by Fade on Nov 13, 2023 13:10:24 GMT -5
Feel like if The Marvels is doing this badly then WBD should be terrified for Aquaman, because that basically has all of the same things running against its chances as well as a host of others. But the tide is turning
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Post by Rolent Tex on Nov 13, 2023 13:15:30 GMT -5
One thing, I think the pandemic really messed with things. Yes I know that probably seems obvious, there were numerous series delays, reshoots required, Wandavision had to change its ending and so on. What I'm getting at though is a complaint I've seen about Marvel since Endgame is that it feels like it's meandering, like it's not going anywhere or that it's taking too long to get where it's going. I almost wonder if there had been no pandemic and everything had been able to come out on schedule if that would still hold true. I imagine to some degree it would, but perhaps we'd be a year or more further into the plan, potentially already at Kang Dynasty. If that were the case would we still see as many of those talking points? I think much like the branches of the multiverse, the MCU’s narrative branches in too many directions. They jumped into the spooky side of the MCU, the multiverse, they set up the Thunderbolts, they set up the Young Avengers and outside of Quantumania they haven’t really hinted at what’s coming with Kang. Dr. Strange 2 and The Marvels explored the multiverse but in the big scheme of things didn’t move us enough on the road to Kang.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Nov 13, 2023 13:26:15 GMT -5
I will never understand people's NEED for this movie to bomb. The posts and tweets from the haters look like they're pleasuring themselves over this movie not doing well. It's not healthy. Were you around for the Avatar 2 discourse? Because boy howdy.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,311
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Post by salz4life on Nov 13, 2023 13:46:37 GMT -5
I do think there could be something to that. I think moving forward they aren't going to do that as much going forward (for example Echo is going to be sort of self contained). {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}I feel like the end scene with Kamala meeting up with Kate is them trying to start anew with the Young Avengers. Whether it ultimately works is certainly up for debate and the dudebros aren't going to like that, for now, it is female centric... but I think it's a solid idea. I think some of the "fatigue" and pushback also has to do with people wanting the X-Men and Fantastic Four since Disney took the Fox properties back. My big problem with that cameo… {Spoiler}{Spoiler}…is that while it’s cute and all having Kamala riff on Fury’s role in Iron Man…we’re about to jump into the Kang Dynasty. A Kang Variant is a major part of the Young Avengers in the comics. Loki season 2 showed that there’s good guy Kang variants out there. There’s no reason the Council of Kangs shouldn’t hand the active Avengers their ass and Iron Lad unites the Young Avengers as a resistance. Tie it all together with some real stakes. {Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}I still haven't finished Loki... so I definitely need to do that tonight. LOL
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,311
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Post by salz4life on Nov 13, 2023 13:47:59 GMT -5
It's a balancing act though. There's a portion of the audience that will never see the shows, just like there's a portion of the audience that will only ever engage with Star Wars if it's in movie format. You can run into situations like Doctor Strange where people are confused and wondering why Wanda is suddenly a villain (if they hadnt seen Wandavision). I do think if people have seen the Ms. Marvel series it would definitely enrich that part but it's not nearly as necessary. I think with Monica, they should have touched a bit more on the issues she had with Carol and why. It was touched on, but it didn't feel like that moment got to breathe properly. I do think the bit at the end could kinda be guessed by those not familiar with the comics, though as you said they may not be excited. The same could be said for the cameos with Starfox and Pip as well. Hell, I know who Starfox is and I was kinda confused to see him in the MCU.
Yeah, not seeing WandaVision would have been very confusing. They really needed someone who was out of the loop to have received an exposition dump to help it make sense. I’ve not watched Ms. Marvel (he’ll, I’ve yet to watch Loki S2 and I was looking forward to that one), so I wonder how lost I’d be. Since Endgame I’ve only watched MoM, Guardians 3, Guardians Christmas special, WandaVision, Falcon & WS, Loki S1, and She-Hulk. I think it would be nice to have seen Ms. Marvel going into this just have the background, but I don't think it's 100% necessary to enjoy the movie. Just my opinion though.
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