Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,978
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 11, 2023 7:44:35 GMT -5
Orton was a pretty smug prick during that entire face run, it's why fans turned on him and he slid naturally back into the heel role while retaining that smugness It was less that and more people not really having a reason to latch onto the guy or any kind of awareness of what he did before was wrong and by the time they did, it was being used to build up Batista and not Orton. It was also why the build to Seth/HHH sort of sucked. Seth got betrayed by HHH, threw a strop and the audience was supposed to be like "Aww, poor guy. Let's just ignore the year of you being the worst person on the roster and cheer for you". Yeah, Triple H even made fun of him when it took him weeks into his face turn to apologize for breaking up the Shield and all of his subsequent actions, saying it sure took him a while to realize any personal culpability.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 11, 2023 8:00:09 GMT -5
Your answer still doesn't answer the question. Something can be over because it's ironic like scissoring.. NONE of it is ironic. Ironic would be only pretending to like them when you really don't. The answer is that not everyone ONLY likes superior ringworkers. Sometimes, some people connect with things other than just "Wow, this guy puts on the best match every night!". Or it can be ironic in the case of understanding it's not good... but cheering because of it. There's def a lot of people who became famous for not actually being good. Think of a JJ ice fish, or the countless tik toks of people dancing badly that people make famous because it's not good.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 11, 2023 8:01:33 GMT -5
Your answer still doesn't answer the question. Something can be over because it's ironic like scissoring.. You’re not answering anyone else’s question; how do you know it’s ironic? Are you expecting us to go into a WWE crowd, survey every single one with the question “Is your reaction to LA Knight ironic or not? Yes or No” because that’s the most scientific way of doing it with some kind of prognosis or evidence behind it. I DID.... What about LÁ Knight is bad or absurd though? He’s a decent wrestler that is a good promo and a catchphrase machine. This formula has worked for decades now. He's kind of a one dimensional character who's best parts a lot of people consider ripped off from other people, who is not really a good wrestler... (p.s. I'm not saying you're wrong if you disagree) I understand that some people actually like him and think he's exceptionally talented. I however am wondering if a large portion of that support see's the flaws and cheers because of them.
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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 11, 2023 9:08:20 GMT -5
You’re not answering anyone else’s question; how do you know it’s ironic? Are you expecting us to go into a WWE crowd, survey every single one with the question “Is your reaction to LA Knight ironic or not? Yes or No” because that’s the most scientific way of doing it with some kind of prognosis or evidence behind it. I DID.... He's kind of a one dimensional character who's best parts a lot of people consider ripped off from other people, who is not really a good wrestler... (p.s. I'm not saying you're wrong if you disagree) I understand that some people actually like him and think he's exceptionally talented. I however am wondering if a large portion of that support see's the flaws and cheers because of them. You're giving your opinion of him there. And you seem to believe that your opinion is fact. And therefore OUR job is too convince you.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Aug 11, 2023 9:29:41 GMT -5
NONE of it is ironic. Ironic would be only pretending to like them when you really don't. The answer is that not everyone ONLY likes superior ringworkers. Sometimes, some people connect with things other than just "Wow, this guy puts on the best match every night!". Or it can be ironic in the case of understanding it's not good... but cheering because of it. There's def a lot of people who became famous for not actually being good. Think of a JJ ice fish, or the countless tik toks of people dancing badly that people make famous because it's not good. That's not what this is. People like LA Knight because he's good on the microphone and good enough in the ring. You may think it's ironic, but it's not. This thread has been pages and pages of people telling you that.
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Post by thechase on Aug 11, 2023 9:56:17 GMT -5
NONE of it is ironic. Ironic would be only pretending to like them when you really don't. The answer is that not everyone ONLY likes superior ringworkers. Sometimes, some people connect with things other than just "Wow, this guy puts on the best match every night!". Or it can be ironic in the case of understanding it's not good... but cheering because of it. There's def a lot of people who became famous for not actually being good. Think of a JJ ice fish, or the countless tik toks of people dancing badly that people make famous because it's not good.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,512
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Post by Fade on Aug 11, 2023 10:12:57 GMT -5
This is my new favorite forum meme.
I may be ironic!
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 11, 2023 10:28:32 GMT -5
Or it can be ironic in the case of understanding it's not good... but cheering because of it. There's def a lot of people who became famous for not actually being good. Think of a JJ ice fish, or the countless tik toks of people dancing badly that people make famous because it's not good. That's not what this is. People like LA Knight because he's good on the microphone and good enough in the ring. You may think it's ironic, but it's not. This thread has been pages and pages of people telling you that. And I haven't refuted anyone stating as much. There are some people who are basically saying "How can his support be ironic? People are supporting him." Those have been the only people I've said you're kinda missing my point.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,560
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Post by msc on Aug 11, 2023 10:29:47 GMT -5
Will irony hurt the LA Knight gimmick?
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,272
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Post by chazraps on Aug 11, 2023 10:34:36 GMT -5
That's not what this is. People like LA Knight because he's good on the microphone and good enough in the ring. You may think it's ironic, but it's not. This thread has been pages and pages of people telling you that. And I haven't refuted anyone stating as much. There are some people who are basically saying "How can his support be ironic? People are supporting him." Those have been the only people I've said you're kinda missing my point. The thing is, you're misusing the term "irony." There's nothing ironic in any of the examples you mentioned, that's why people are responding to you in such a way.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,633
Member is Online
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 11, 2023 10:39:18 GMT -5
Cheers can be ironic.
But he is also moving merchandise and is featured in high rated segments. He is popular.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 11, 2023 10:41:51 GMT -5
And I haven't refuted anyone stating as much. There are some people who are basically saying "How can his support be ironic? People are supporting him." Those have been the only people I've said you're kinda missing my point. The thing is, you're misusing the term "irony." There's nothing ironic in any of the examples you mentioned, that's why people are responding to you in such a way. Liking something ironically meaning liking something you know is not good or absurd... Like JJ ice fish.. People know he's not a good singer, but they listen to him because he's a bad singer.
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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 11, 2023 10:44:54 GMT -5
The thing is, you're misusing the term "irony." There's nothing ironic in any of the examples you mentioned, that's why people are responding to you in such a way. Liking something ironically meaning liking something you know is not good or absurd... Like JJ ice fish.. People know he's not a good singer, but they listen to him because he's a bad singer. But this isn't the same thing.... You don't like LA, so you're convinced that his support is ironic. But, here's the thing, plenty of people do like him. There's been ton of wrestlers I don't personally like, but I've never been like "those who like him are dumb and must be pretending".
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,272
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Post by chazraps on Aug 11, 2023 10:48:38 GMT -5
The thing is, you're misusing the term "irony." There's nothing ironic in any of the examples you mentioned, that's why people are responding to you in such a way. Liking something ironically meaning liking something you know is not good or absurd... Like JJ ice fish.. People know he's not a good singer, but they listen to him because he's a bad singer. That's not what "liking something ironically" means. And come up with another example than JJ Ice Fish to try to make your point. Regardless, it wouldn't apply as LA Knight and The Acclaimed are good at what they do and what they do is sincerely resonating with people.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,560
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Post by msc on Aug 11, 2023 10:54:02 GMT -5
Heard Irony's agent, Alanis Morrisette, predicts it will become a big deal fairly quickly.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 11, 2023 11:08:27 GMT -5
Liking something ironically meaning liking something you know is not good or absurd... Like JJ ice fish.. People know he's not a good singer, but they listen to him because he's a bad singer. But this isn't the same thing.... You don't like LA, so you're convinced that his support is ironic. But, here's the thing, plenty of people do like him. There's been ton of wrestlers I don't personally like, but I've never been like "those who like him are dumb and must be pretending". A: I haven't disagreed with anyone who has said they like him cause he is a good promo.. B: I've even agreed with a person who broke it down and said people want to see him win because of his age and what not. C: I don't hate La knight I even said I think he's mid(like if you took 10 random current wrestlers in WWE he would probably be my 5th or 6th favorite) D: (I also want to preface this as I know we live in different media bubbles)It seemed like for a while lots of people hated LA knight on message boards, podcasts, and even Mark Henry on Busted open would just clown him all the time. Then seemingly all of a sudden he's getting the biggest reactions, and even Mark Henry wanted him to win money in the bank. Like he hasn't really grown as a character, he hasn't had a promo that is super remarkable, and his matches have been pretty ok at best. There seems to be a sudden 180 on him that doesn't seem to be dictated by what's been happening on screen...
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mc74
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,439
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Post by mc74 on Aug 11, 2023 11:14:00 GMT -5
Nah Eli Drake has always been super charismatic…even during the worst of impact he was entertaining as hell. He was even pretty good on the early days of NWA Powerr… This, he's always been good, even before taking up the LA Knight moniker.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 11, 2023 11:19:16 GMT -5
Liking something ironically meaning liking something you know is not good or absurd... Like JJ ice fish.. People know he's not a good singer, but they listen to him because he's a bad singer. That's not what "liking something ironically" means. And come up with another example than JJ Ice Fish to try to make your point. Regardless, it wouldn't apply as LA Knight and The Acclaimed are good at what they do and what they do is sincerely resonating with people. Also scissoring is the thing people ironically like about the Acclaimed. It's stupid and the exact opposite of what you would expect in a sport where men beat each other up in. However it's in that it's so stupid it works
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,272
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Post by chazraps on Aug 11, 2023 11:29:28 GMT -5
That's not what "liking something ironically" means. And come up with another example than JJ Ice Fish to try to make your point. Regardless, it wouldn't apply as LA Knight and The Acclaimed are good at what they do and what they do is sincerely resonating with people. Also scissoring is the thing people ironically like about the Acclaimed. It's stupid and the exact opposite of what you would expect in a sport where men beat each other up in. However it's in that it's so stupid it works You're so wildly off base here. Wow. OK. First of all, it's no stupider than "too sweeting" or Diesel's black glove hand slaps or the DDP Diamond symbol or any other hand-based show of support for a wrestler. Second, the terminology and gesture also works as a sign of embracing and supporting the LGBTQ+ community as it's a joyful celebration of a term with two openly LGBTQ+ wrestlers with a gesture and wording from a specific part of that community. Finally, is there a child-like joy in it? Of course. But it's not stupid and people aren't doing it "ironically." There's no detached eye-rolling or "isn't this so stupid, can you believe we're doing it" winking at all. Like, at all at all. I'd advise really looking into what ironic support/irony really is before you continue using the word.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 11, 2023 11:41:08 GMT -5
Also scissoring is the thing people ironically like about the Acclaimed. It's stupid and the exact opposite of what you would expect in a sport where men beat each other up in. However it's in that it's so stupid it works You're so wildly off base here. Wow. OK. First of all, it's no stupider than "too sweeting" or Diesel's black glove hand slaps or the DDP Diamond symbol or any other hand-based show of support for a wrestler. Second, the terminology and gesture also works as a sign of embracing and supporting the LGBTQ+ community as it's a joyful celebration of a term with two openly LGBTQ+ wrestlers with a gesture and wording from a specific part of that community. Finally, is there a child-like joy in it? Of course. But it's not stupid and people aren't doing it "ironically." There's no detached eye-rolling or "isn't this so stupid, can you believe we're doing it" winking at all. Like, at all at all. I'd advise really looking into what ironic support/irony really is before you continue using the word. two sweeting in modern wrestling has a kinda ironic tone to it. Bullet club has some parody roots of the nwo. I def sensed some sarcasm in an interview they had about scissoring day. I'm willing to take an L on this point cause I don't follow. AEW all like that, and I could probably point out some better examples(like Kenny Omega wrestling a blowup doll.)
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