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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 4, 2023 23:44:30 GMT -5
I await this time next year when there's a thread about Cody's (hopefully) world title run being dogshit. I await a scenario when they DO hotshot the belt a few times and then we end up with nobody being credible and 50/50 booking.
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Post by HIM on Dec 4, 2023 23:44:46 GMT -5
The thing about Cody is that you can tell he's someone who will be cashed in on and lose the belt compared to Seth. You can tell that he's the one who will end up losing to Gunther too when it happens (Gunther might be the one cashing in on him). For as strong as Cody's been presented, there's no doubt in my mind that he'd be cool with something like that because his character's been more about "the chase" and fighting back against the opposition rather than being the guy "on top." Guaranteed, when Cody wins that belt he's probably not walking out of Summerslam with the title. I can see him defending it until Summerslam and after he beats his opponent he'll be cashed in on.
And hypothetically let's say Cody keeps the belt for a while. I know that I'm not the only one who knows that they're probably going to go full on "Homelander Cody" when it happens.
I just don't think they have that type of awareness with Seth. That Nakamura thing really should have been it with the limitations they put on him but even that wasn't enough.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Dec 4, 2023 23:48:04 GMT -5
if Seth does lose the title, it's most certainly gonna be to CM Punk.
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ghost
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,988
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Post by ghost on Dec 4, 2023 23:49:19 GMT -5
Would Seth be this over if he had his old theme music? I mean wrestling crowds today would probably find a way to sing a long to that theme too.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Dec 4, 2023 23:50:28 GMT -5
Would Seth be this over if he had his old theme music? I mean wrestling crowds today would probably find a way to sing a long to that theme too. Based on what I saw at Summerslam in the crowd. We sang along. And that was IT. We wanted the title change. The crowd wasn't really rallying Seth along, which I'll admit, at the time shocked me. Post entrance music sing along, I thought he would be more over. And the botched cash in pissed us off more.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 4, 2023 23:56:23 GMT -5
I haven't really watched Raw in awhile so my observation is more coming from what I saw a few months ago (so apologies if this is not right), but it just feels like the the title is there and not really the draw of Raw. Which is fine, you can do that occasionally but it just doesn't seem like the title is really a big deal.
So I don't really put that on Rollins as much as I think WWE really doesn't know how to book a face champion. They may know how to book a face challenger, but still feels like too often after someone gets the belt the question is "now what?"
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Post by KingPooper on Dec 5, 2023 0:00:29 GMT -5
1) He’s always been crappy champion.
2) He’s always been a terrible face.
3) Its ten time worse when he’s a face champion.
4) Triple H’s weird boner for overly long title reigns.
5) So it’s a super crappy time.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Dec 5, 2023 0:04:11 GMT -5
We gotta stop with these calendar year long title reigns in like 3/ths of all the divisions. Every reign doesn’t have to be a historic record breaking thing all the time.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 5, 2023 0:04:12 GMT -5
How do you book a guy that every time he’s heel people start cheering him, but every time he’s face people start hating him? And it’s not like he’s a bad wrestler or even not over, so being off of TV or released isn’t an option here. Is he just not meant to be champion? Seth is so f***ing talented, he's one of the best in the world. But even tho I've been a fan of the guy going back to Age of the Fall, when I see him in WWE the past few years there's always a part of me that goes "I should like this guy more then I do"
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,375
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Post by Nosnorb on Dec 5, 2023 0:15:49 GMT -5
Yea I only caught the main event so im confused to the vitriol here. I didn’t expect jey to win for a second and I love jey. Seth’s their biggest dude aside cody who can’t get belt becuz finish the story. Narratively, yea would have been cool with Finn or nak winning it but I don’t hate Seth’s reign. I feel that most of us are just waiting for DP to cash in. Each time he doesn't with a weak looking Seth, he's killing not only his own character cred, DP, but make Seth look like superman each time DP doesn't go for it. At this rate, DP is totally the wrong guy to have it if he's resistant on making the move. The JD drama is the front seat with the MITB is the backseat and that is just wrong. We want to see the cash in once and for all, so we can move on, even if DP chokes. Priest has had numerous opportunities to cash in the title and he has a stable backing him. Dude should have cashed in a long time ago and he probably won't get a better opportunity than the one he had after the Last Man Standing match.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,399
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 5, 2023 0:20:49 GMT -5
Are they seriously gonna have everyone lose their title at WrestleMania? Lol. WrestleMania 40…where it all begins again…again…again. Yeah, that little baby in the It All Begins Again promo is thinking of being a wrestler now.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 5, 2023 0:24:40 GMT -5
Oh, and count me as one of the folk who would like to see the title change hands more. When Seth won the belt, I said I wanted to see 4-5 champions in the first year just to freshen shit up. We have been so overloaded with long title reigns lately. I love long reigns, I was always a proponent of them when 3 months was your average reign but it's so common now. There's 3 singles titles on Raw, one is new this year and hasn't changed hands, one has changed hands once and one hasn't at all. That's too many dominant champs
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 5, 2023 0:25:32 GMT -5
Are they seriously gonna have everyone lose their title at WrestleMania? Lol. WrestleMania 40…where it all begins again…again…again. Yeah, that little baby in the It All Begins Again promo is thinking of being a wrestler now. Well f*** me that makes me feel old, although WM XX was the year I graduated. Good god
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,399
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 5, 2023 0:30:50 GMT -5
WrestleMania 40…where it all begins again…again…again. Yeah, that little baby in the It All Begins Again promo is thinking of being a wrestler now. Well f*** me that makes me feel old, although WM XX was the year I graduated. Good god Was 3 years after I graduated...and now I gotta wear glasses when watching WrestleMania because everyone who wrestlers is blurry and out of focus these days. Damn kids.
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Post by theironyuppie on Dec 5, 2023 2:48:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure how much of it is Seth specifically and just general tropes for face title reigns. Faces must always want competition, faces must want open challenges, faces must be 'fighting champs', and even when the matches are generally good, it's a limiting formula after a while.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 5, 2023 3:25:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure how much of it is Seth specifically and just general tropes for face title reigns. Faces must always want competition, faces must want open challenges, faces must be 'fighting champs', and even when the matches are generally good, it's a limiting formula after a while. It’s hard for a babyface to be proactive, because the very nature of instigating a conflict beyond the scope of the “sport” itself is an inherently heel trait. That’s why it’s almost always the heels starting shit, and the babyfaces reacting to it.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 28,709
Member is Online
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Post by 4real on Dec 5, 2023 3:47:25 GMT -5
Seth will lose the belt and get over again in a couple of years and people will be shouting “Give him the title!” And it will suck again. Rinse and repeat.
Great wrestler but a great Champion he is not.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 5, 2023 6:55:51 GMT -5
WWE title reigns on average are probably going to be longer these days going forward, considering the strong business they’ve been doing with them.
The hot-potatoing of Attitude is likely gone for a while. Sorry. 🤷♂️
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 5, 2023 7:27:29 GMT -5
That isn’t to say that I think they should have longer reigns with *every* belt, I’d like to have seen a couple more WHCs by now. It’s that the company’s also partially writing these longer runs for Gunther, Seth, Bianca, Roman, etc. for the viewers who don’t watch every week.
They want to reinforce the visual of these stars constantly holding these belts because they probably feel it’s going to result in bigger rubs for the next champs and the ex-champs feeling more important.
Now if there’s two insanely hot stars and they’re both over with or without a title, then trading titles is much easier (and yes, even a brief reign can add tons of credibility). The problems start up when bookers start hot-potatoing simply for shock value’s sake like Vince Russo, who ruined the practice because he didn’t know what else to do, and thus nobody got over.
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Post by mistery on Dec 5, 2023 7:34:45 GMT -5
That isn’t to say that I think they should have longer reigns with *every* belt, I’d like to have seen a couple more WHCs by now. It’s that the company’s also partially writing these longer runs for Gunther, Seth, Bianca, Roman, etc. for the viewers who don’t watch every week. They want to reinforce the visual of these stars constantly holding these belts because they probably feel it’s going to result in bigger rubs for the next champs and the ex-champs feeling more important. Now if there’s two insanely hot stars and they’re both over with or without a title, then trading titles is much easier (and yes, even a brief reign can add tons of credibility). The problems start up when bookers start hot-potatoing simply for shock value’s sake like Vince Russo, who ruined the practice because he didn’t know what else to do, and thus nobody got over. I think part of the problem with some of these longer runs, and I'm gonna use Bianca as an example here because she had the longest modern women's title reign is that she never really gave anyone the rub when she lost the title either, because all of her losses are very heavily protected. The heel had to cheat to win, but it was pretty clear near the end of her reign that the audience had stopped really giving a damn about her, mostly because Bianca is very much a one note performer. And yeah she's getting some good reactions depending on the town she's in, but at the same time, a lot of those reactions will probably end up going away if she regains the title soon. Because it'll be a signal to those who watch regularly that it's back to the status quo of her running over everyone (although one could argue she's never stopped doing that). Meanwhile Gunther when he loses will likely be clean. Seth or whoever beats him will probably be cashed in on by Priest (although the jury is still out on if he'll be successful or not). The entire story with Roman right now is that Cody is going to beat him. Meanwhile, I don't really think they had any sort of endgame with Bianca in mind during her run, but instead panic booked the title off of her, because it was pretty clear that her reactions were getting poorer and poorer every week as long as she had the title. Rhea will probably end up in the same spot if her reign goes past a year (and it likely will), because the division on RAW is already a wasteland and WWE has made sure to make it so the only women who are seen as big deals on Smackdown are Charlotte and Bianca. I would put Iyo here, but then I would be lying there, because she hasn't won a single televised match clean since winning the title. Which I know she's a heel and all, but even heels need clean wins every once in awhile in order to maintain any shred of credibility.
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