Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Mar 29, 2024 19:06:06 GMT -5
I might be misremembering, but it seems to me that AEW are largely copying how they handled CM Punk following his debut with how they're handling Mercedes.
Hint at debut but don't confirm it Debut in "home town" Open the show with a promo Promos and guest commentary In ring debut on PPV
Not saying it's the right way to do it, but if we're comparing Mercedes' debut to other wrestlers, then the only one she's comparable to is Punk.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Mar 29, 2024 19:13:35 GMT -5
I might be misremembering, but it seems to me that AEW are largely copying how they handled CM Punk following his debut with how they're handling Mercedes. Hint at debut but don't confirm it Debut in "home town" Open the show with a promo Promos and guest commentary In ring debut on PPV Not saying it's the right way to do it, but if we're comparing Mercedes' debut to other wrestlers, then the only one she's comparable to is Punk. You’re right. However: 1. Punk is just a better talker than her. 2. Punk got into the ring a few weeks after his debut. If her first match is at the PPV, then that’s like DOUBLE the amount of time that Punk took to have a match. 3. You cannot book every new star the same way because every new star is DIFFERENT!
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 29, 2024 19:16:28 GMT -5
Then what about Edge, Danielson and Cole all having their first matches on TV? She's the most high profile signing in the women's division and her whole gimmick is about Mone... why wouldn't she wrestle her first match on the PPV? Again don't see what having her wrestle on TV is gonna do outside of either bumping the rating one week or not bumping it enough that people goalpost about it. It’ll allow her to show herself in an entertaining way as that’s what she’s good at, unlike having her do 10-minute monologues and guest commentary.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 29, 2024 19:44:57 GMT -5
AEW has incredibly few "matches for the sake of matches". I think I get what he was going for, in the sense that the matches generally are really good and storylines generally are just ok Like Danielson vs Ospreay I cannot wait for, that match is going to absolutely rule but the storyline is essentially “Let’s see who is the best” but there is no hostility to it. Some people that will work for and are going to like it and some want there to be a bit of an edge to it So think poster is looking for more stuff along the lines of Swerve vs Hangman etc I agree with the poster who said stay the course, I think the past couple of months have shown a good basis to move forward with and a few more tweaks will help the perception at least Edit: Dynamite at least. Collision still has major relevancy issues IMO I know for me, the Ospreay/Danielson match took on another level when they played in the "I don't intend to die" angle; Danielson saying that makes him doubt Ospreay, playing in Shibata as someone else who nearly died "for this business" (tm), etc., it gave it another edge to me. It takes it from "I respect you, let's see who's better" to Danielson telling Ospreay "If you're the new top guy, I need to see you prove it, because you just gave me doubt about that", and I trust both guys to get that across in the ring. That said, I get why that's not always the story people are looking for; it doesn't have the immediate visceral nature of Hangman vs. Swerve, for example, and I'm just wired to really want stories that revolve around "here's a character beat/story moment that will impact the way the match these two guys are gonna have will be wrestled", which is not everyone's preference in terms of content or pace. Still, end of the day I usually feel like they've got plenty of decent stories going, with some mixed in that are more personal; even the Joe/Swerve build right now is getting at least some kind of edge to it given the way they've been interacting with one another. It's tough to have multiple blood feuds going at once, I suppose.
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Post by eJm on Mar 29, 2024 20:21:48 GMT -5
Like, the question I have for those who give suggestions for things to improve ratings is that are these things that’ll actually make any improvement or are they things you personally want to happen? Because there’s a broad enough difference for things.
This also isn’t me trying to stop discussion but the issue I have is that these threads go ways to think that stuff needs to happen unless they’re the stuff that’ll make you watch.
At this point, until more things get tracked or the Max deal happens, if you personally want ratings to improve and live in America, get your household tracked by Nielson and watch the show. Because the number we get weekly doesn’t track Triller, international TV deals. YouTubeTV etc.
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neilc
Bubba Ho-Tep
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Post by neilc on Mar 29, 2024 21:43:00 GMT -5
I'm wondering at this point if Mercedes is still recovering from her injuries, which is why they're slowly building her to a match. If anyone could give AEW a bump, I thought it was her with mainstream notoriety and all (her line at NY ComicCon was ridiculous last year). I'm not sure what can be done to get over a million viewers, but it's something that has me scratching my head. Not just because of the additions, I think the past few weeks of shows have been much better with less of the characters I find annoying and things not going at 100 MPH from start to finish. Adding more video packages are good, I don't have the encyclopedia knowledge of every Japanese or Mexica wrestler and don't want to google everything. But hopefully the signings are done so the stories can develop.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Mar 29, 2024 22:00:36 GMT -5
Dude needs to work a lot harder on his story telling. Yeah wrestling matches are cool but we need more than that. AEW has incredibly few "matches for the sake of matches". Let’s take Ospreay & Shibata. Or Danielson and Shibata. That’s the story there right? The matches they had and Shibatas role in wrestling mythos as an incredible wrestler. This all plays into Danielson & Ospreay. It’s storytelling through the in-ring matches and knowledge of these wrestlers In-ring history. Problem is, most people are conditioned to use promos, and storyline devices outside of the ring, to lead to the matches in the ring. This varies, even with WWE. My point is I get people complaining about matches for the sake of matches because I know that about all these wrestlers. I barely care. Maybe I’d care if there was a hook; Like Ospreay refusing the match initially with Danielson, because he wants to focus on the YOUNG talent., not only insulting Danielson but refusing him. Which could lead to Danielson talking mad shit about Ospreay, or trying to incite him into a fight? Or Danielson big leagues him. Calls him a “stupider Kenny omega”. ANYTHING. There’s no hook and this is across the board. I think the sports centered, in-ring focused, using-matches-to-progress -storylines thing can work, it has before in different companies. The problem is there’s little conflict, tension, story-turns across the board.
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 29, 2024 22:30:00 GMT -5
AEW has incredibly few "matches for the sake of matches". Let’s take Ospreay & Shibata. Or Danielson and Shibata. That’s the story there right? The matches they had and Shibatas role in wrestling mythos as an incredible wrestler. This all plays into Danielson & Ospreay. It’s storytelling through the in-ring matches and knowledge of these wrestlers In-ring history. Problem is, most people are conditioned to use promos, and storyline devices outside of the ring, to lead to the matches in the ring. This varies, even with WWE. My point is I get people complaining about matches for the sake of matches because I know that about all these wrestlers. I barely care. Maybe I’d care if there was a hook; Like Ospreay refusing the match initially with Danielson, because he wants to focus on the YOUNG talent., not only insulting Danielson but refusing him. Which could lead to Danielson talking mad shit about Ospreay, or trying to incite him into a fight? Or Danielson big leagues him. Calls him a “stupider Kenny omega”. ANYTHING. There’s no hook and this is across the board. I think the sports centered, in-ring focused, using-matches-to-progress -storylines thing can work, it has before in different companies. The problem is there’s little conflict, tension, story-turns across the board. I think that puts it perfectly. The hook is usually missing for a lot of the matches, even if you can somehow glean and construct some type of in-match “story” through the in-ring action.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Mar 29, 2024 23:17:14 GMT -5
I may be in the minority here, but I'm perfectly content with a match like Ospreay vs Shibata happening purely because it can. I don't need promos and storylines for every match. I'm happy just with the match.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Mar 29, 2024 23:21:34 GMT -5
I feel like the discussion regarding matches and stories in AEW has been going around for ages and wouldn't explain recent viewership trends. It's not as if there weren't many weeks last year where they put on a match that had a story that boiled down to - these two dudes want to see who the better man is. In fact, folks have regularly said that AEW in 2024 has been a lot more focused storyline wise in terms of their week to week stuff building towards PPVs. Each week in the Swerve/Joe saga has built towards that. We had weekly builds to Cage/Copeland. We're getting matches and promos building towards Ospreay/Danielson. The TBS Title scene has been front and center for weeks. Okada's title match had weeks of build going into it. This has been a largely refined AEW. I think it's both one week and more broadly - WWE being hot has an impact for sure and I think there are likely fans who miss the likes of Kenny, MJF, Hangman, etc. who may not be tuning in every week.
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Post by eJm on Mar 30, 2024 2:34:07 GMT -5
I may be in the minority here, but I'm perfectly content with a match like Ospreay vs Shibata happening purely because it can. I don't need promos and storylines for every match. I'm happy just with the match. And, like, if you watch any of the promos going in (which honestly feels like some people didn’t) it wasn’t like it happened without reason. “I saw how you beat Shibata, I can do better than that. Let me face him next week!” And then he beats him better than Danielson did, without the roll up. That’s an added layer to things going into the match at Dynasty. None of this is that complex to get. Again, people use these ratings threads sometimes to go “I don’t like how this is done, thus it’s not working” without any actual proof it’s not working. EDIT; Also, as Jackson pointed out, it disregards stuff like Copeland/Cage, Swerve/Joe, Deonna/Toni etc.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Mar 30, 2024 4:10:08 GMT -5
Using Mercedes for promos rather than wrestling is certainly a choice She's going to wrestle Like... Again, kind of shocked people just expect her to have her first match not on a PPV. I know that. But promos are her only weak point so having her do promos at all is really strange to me
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 30, 2024 4:55:02 GMT -5
She's going to wrestle Like... Again, kind of shocked people just expect her to have her first match not on a PPV. I know that. But promos are her only weak point so having her do promos at all is really strange to me They want her on TV, if she's not gonna wrestle they wanna give her stuff to do so in that sense I get it They switched it up with commentary during a match and adding more tension to growing feuds, I'm ok with the progression so far, taking it slow to give her sound direction and clear first opponents
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Post by stoptheclocks on Mar 30, 2024 5:32:32 GMT -5
Keeping things back for the PPV is fine, but you can't just assume people will tune in to watch the TV shows regardless.
Mercedes is a huge talent, she's not (imo) the type of star that people would tune in just to see in any capacity. She actually has to be doing something interesting.
This is weeks of slow build towards a showcase match with little stakes behind it that she's guaranteed to win. It feels like going through the motions to reach a not particularly interesting end point.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 30, 2024 5:51:03 GMT -5
I feel like the discussion regarding matches and stories in AEW has been going around for ages and wouldn't explain recent viewership trends. It's not as if there weren't many weeks last year where they put on a match that had a story that boiled down to - these two dudes want to see who the better man is. In fact, folks have regularly said that AEW in 2024 has been a lot more focused storyline wise in terms of their week to week stuff building towards PPVs. Each week in the Swerve/Joe saga has built towards that. We had weekly builds to Cage/Copeland. We're getting matches and promos building towards Ospreay/Danielson. The TBS Title scene has been front and center for weeks. Okada's title match had weeks of build going into it. This has been a largely refined AEW. I think it's both one week and more broadly - WWE being hot has an impact for sure and I think there are likely fans who miss the likes of Kenny, MJF, Hangman, etc. who may not be tuning in every week. Ratings threads are never gonna beat the "the secret to fixing ratings is to do what I want it to do" allegations.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Mar 30, 2024 6:16:04 GMT -5
I know that. But promos are her only weak point so having her do promos at all is really strange to me They want her on TV, if she's not gonna wrestle they wanna give her stuff to do so in that sense I get it They switched it up with commentary during a match and adding more tension to growing feuds, I'm ok with the progression so far, taking it slow to give her sound direction and clear first opponents Yeah you're not going to change my mind. I think it's a terrible use of an extremely talented woman to have her only do her weakest skill when they're relying on her star power
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 30, 2024 6:23:06 GMT -5
I may be in the minority here, but I'm perfectly content with a match like Ospreay vs Shibata happening purely because it can. I don't need promos and storylines for every match. I'm happy just with the match. It may be that stuff like that is not affecting ratings overall, but personally I would prefer a bit more stakes and story as part of things. Luckily they have a bunch wrestlers that are either fresh or just favorites of mine that I’ll watch even without a compelling story (Danielson, Okada, Ospreay, Takeshita, Swerve) so it’s not always a big issue week to week.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Mar 30, 2024 6:33:43 GMT -5
I might be misremembering, but it seems to me that AEW are largely copying how they handled CM Punk following his debut with how they're handling Mercedes. Hint at debut but don't confirm it Debut in "home town" Open the show with a promo Promos and guest commentary In ring debut on PPV Not saying it's the right way to do it, but if we're comparing Mercedes' debut to other wrestlers, then the only one she's comparable to is Punk. You’re right. However: 1. Punk is just a better talker than her. 2. Punk got into the ring a few weeks after his debut. If her first match is at the PPV, then that’s like DOUBLE the amount of time that Punk took to have a match. 3. You cannot book every new star the same way because every new star is DIFFERENT! Punk also hadn’t wrestled in the better part of a decade. There was so much more anticipation to see if he could still go in the ring, you don’t just throw that one out there. That mystery/anticipation doesn’t really exist for Mercedes. Yes, it’s a different company with different opponents but she was wrestling last year. There’s not even a “But she’s not Sasha Banks no more, it’s totally different!” because (aside from the fact that she’s still more or less Sasha Banks), we’ve seen Mercedes Moné in Japan. Her AEW debut is exciting but not on the level of Punk’s return in terms of a big event.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 30, 2024 6:35:13 GMT -5
They want her on TV, if she's not gonna wrestle they wanna give her stuff to do so in that sense I get it They switched it up with commentary during a match and adding more tension to growing feuds, I'm ok with the progression so far, taking it slow to give her sound direction and clear first opponents Yeah you're not going to change my mind. I think it's a terrible use of an extremely talented woman to have her only do her weakest skill when they're relying on her star power It's also going to vary from person to person on if they don't think this is working Like Mone could wrestle and the ratings don't move, then what? Then the argument shifts to how she just isn't a draw period or the show does what it does regardless for her big debut. It just seems like a waste to me personally to do this on free TV and they probably aren't going to because they want to sell Dynasty. I don't really see what AEW gains by giving away her first match on TV. They're showcasing her a ton, I'm not trying to change your mind I'm just saying I expected this at the onset of when she signed, nothing less then a PPV debut for a match was gonna be what Mone did while she built her character and feuds up in the meantime.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Mar 30, 2024 7:20:25 GMT -5
I feel like the discussion regarding matches and stories in AEW has been going around for ages and wouldn't explain recent viewership trends. It's not as if there weren't many weeks last year where they put on a match that had a story that boiled down to - these two dudes want to see who the better man is. In fact, folks have regularly said that AEW in 2024 has been a lot more focused storyline wise in terms of their week to week stuff building towards PPVs. Each week in the Swerve/Joe saga has built towards that. We had weekly builds to Cage/Copeland. We're getting matches and promos building towards Ospreay/Danielson. The TBS Title scene has been front and center for weeks. Okada's title match had weeks of build going into it. This has been a largely refined AEW. I think it's both one week and more broadly - WWE being hot has an impact for sure and I think there are likely fans who miss the likes of Kenny, MJF, Hangman, etc. who may not be tuning in every week. Ratings threads are never gonna beat the "the secret to fixing ratings is to do what I want it to do" allegations. That is everything in a nutshell. There is a lot of "we" don't like this when it really should be "I" don't like this.
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