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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Apr 30, 2024 11:24:39 GMT -5
Season 5 wraps up next week, but there is a four-part documentary on its way in June.
It's the ultimate dead horse to beat, but still
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,124
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Post by tafkaga on Apr 30, 2024 11:39:02 GMT -5
DON'T MESS WITH VINCE MACK MAN.
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Post by chronocross on Apr 30, 2024 11:41:21 GMT -5
I guess I'll give it a watch, even if the topic has beaten to death already.
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Apr 30, 2024 11:54:07 GMT -5
The Rock, eh? I'm sure this will be totally impartial and not spin things to make it look like WCW screwed itself, then.
Besides, hasn't it been well established since 2001 that Turner didn't want them anymore, and that WWE had first right of refusal or whatever on a sale?
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Post by Killah Ray on Apr 30, 2024 12:50:08 GMT -5
Since RD apparently spoke with them for the Quake episode, I wonder if they have him on as a talking head for this?
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,914 
Member is Online
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Post by chrom on Apr 30, 2024 12:54:08 GMT -5
What number is this, 56 thousand?
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,605
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Post by cjh on Apr 30, 2024 13:05:51 GMT -5
The Rock, eh? I'm sure this will be totally impartial and not spin things to make it look like WCW screwed itself, then. Besides, hasn't it been well established since 2001 that Turner didn't want them anymore, and that WWE had first right of refusal or whatever on a sale?That was true at first, but WWE lost that right in the fall of 2000 when they passed on buying WCW when Viacom intervened and blocked the deal from happening. The original plan was for WCW to continue airing on TBS and TNT but with WWE as the owners. Viacom refused to let that happen since they had just recently signed WWE. About six months later, WCW got dropped by TBS and TNT, so Viacom no longer had any objections to WWE buying it. |
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,796
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Post by hassanchop on Apr 30, 2024 13:11:14 GMT -5
Our old pal Corny is gonna be there isn't he? More pooping on Russo bro?
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Post by eJm on Apr 30, 2024 13:11:30 GMT -5
If this does well, are Dwayne and Vice TV going to finally crack the case on the Montreal Screwjob?
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Apr 30, 2024 13:21:18 GMT -5
Spoiler, it was turner execs and they hated pro wrestling.
People may not love Bischoff, but the company was still profitable in 1999. Bischoff threw his weight around quite often when Turner was in charge, but when Turner was removed from the company, all the enemies Bischoff made forced him out.
8 months before WCW went under, they had a $400m evaluation and offers from many outside companies. When VKM bought WCW, he did so for about a total cost of $4m (including the ad space WWE was forced to buy).
So yes, Turner intentionally took a $400m loss just because some of their execs did not like pro wrestling. There was general anaomosity in Turner/Aol that WCW (even in 2000) was still massively outperforming all the original content that Turner execs were Executive Producers on. In cable, if you are an exec-producer of a top 5 cable show, that's a pathway to a job with a network like NBC or CBS. Thunder and Nitro kept TNT/TBS original shows out of the top 5.
Towards the end, Nitro was being preempted so TNT could run 24 hour marathons of their classic movie network. Those marathons did a 10th of the ratings.
Yes, Russo, Sullivan, and Bischoff made a lot of mistakes, but they all had the top rated show on the channel. Just pure petty BS from some snobs in Atlanta who put their careers ahead of many people's jobs
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Post by Zombie Mod on Apr 30, 2024 14:36:31 GMT -5
"a wizard did it"
pretty much the only option that hasn't been discussed about the death of wcw at this point.
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Post by eJm on Apr 30, 2024 14:48:18 GMT -5
"a wizard did it" pretty much the only option that hasn't been discussed about the death of wcw at this point. "Let's see what was airing the same time during the Monday Night Wars that wasn't Wrestling..." |
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Post by Zombie Mod on Apr 30, 2024 14:54:39 GMT -5
"a wizard did it" pretty much the only option that hasn't been discussed about the death of wcw at this point. "Let's see what was airing the same time during the Monday Night Wars that wasn't Wrestling..." " Dark Angel Sabrina the Teenage Witch killed wcw!" it was revenge for all the wrestlers randomly turning up. |
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 30, 2024 15:04:56 GMT -5
Kurt Angle when he cost the Alliance the Survivor Series match, obviously.
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Post by eJm on Apr 30, 2024 15:05:22 GMT -5
"Let's see what was airing the same time during the Monday Night Wars that wasn't Wrestling..." " Dark Angel Sabrina the Teenage Witch killed wcw!" it was revenge for all the wrestlers randomly turning up. Booker T: I personally blame Charmed. The politics Shannon Doherty and Alyssa Milano played to go over me and Scott Steiner?! Killed the credibility of the entire business. |
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,514
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 30, 2024 15:27:03 GMT -5
Spoiler, it was turner execs and they hated pro wrestling. People may not love Bischoff, but the company was still profitable in 1999. Bischoff threw his weight around quite often when Turner was in charge, but when Turner was removed from the company, all the enemies Bischoff made forced him out. 8 months before WCW went under, they had a $400m evaluation and offers from many outside companies. When VKM bought WCW, he did so for about a total cost of $4m (including the ad space WWE was forced to buy). So yes, Turner intentionally took a $400m loss just because some of their execs did not like pro wrestling. There was general anaomosity in Turner/Aol that WCW (even in 2000) was still massively outperforming all the original content that Turner execs were Executive Producers on. In cable, if you are an exec-producer of a top 5 cable show, that's a pathway to a job with a network like NBC or CBS. Thunder and Nitro kept TNT/TBS original shows out of the top 5. Towards the end, Nitro was being preempted so TNT could run 24 hour marathons of their classic movie network. Those marathons did a 10th of the ratings. Yes, Russo, Sullivan, and Bischoff made a lot of mistakes, but they all had the top rated show on the channel. Just pure petty BS from some snobs in Atlanta who put their careers ahead of many people's jobs There were a plethora of lousy booking choices, bad signings, egos etc, but this is the correct answer in the end. Blaming on Hogan, Bischoff or even Russo is oversimplifying and kinda lazy |
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Post by eJm on Apr 30, 2024 15:33:48 GMT -5
My only counter to that is, it was overperforming but it wasn't really making that much money. It never recovered from the losses of the year 2000 and with everything else that happened, it was easier to put it on the chopping block than hope it can rebound in some way.
Like, it sucks but also calling it "petty BS" feels like an oversimplification and lazy. If it was making a profit in some way, in a time it really needed to, it would have still been in business for longer. End of.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Apr 30, 2024 16:01:44 GMT -5
Blaming it on AOL-Time Warner execs and Jamie Kellner is also just too simplistic of an answer. WCW needed the TV deals, but the WCW of 1998 would have had television stations climbing over each other to land Nitro and Thunder if the decision to suddenly axe wrestling had been made at that time. At the very least, the WWF would have needed to actually outbid organizations willing to pay something close to market value if they wanted to own their biggest competitor had it been able to stay competitive after 1999. And the WWF of 2001 was not in a position to do that because the XFL was about to become a giant albatross for them.
The fact is that Bischoff/Russo/Hogan/Nash/Sullivan/whoever put WCW in a position where wrestling's detractors had a chance to enact the killing blow, and Jamie Keller was the one who took it.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Apr 30, 2024 17:15:04 GMT -5
The Rock, eh? I'm sure this will be totally impartial and not spin things to make it look like WCW screwed itself, then. Besides, hasn't it been well established since 2001 that Turner didn't want them anymore, and that WWE had first right of refusal or whatever on a sale?  "So the World Wrestling Federation bought WCW and I was asked upon to help integrate WCW talents into the group. So I gave it my all and I'm very proud of myself."  |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 30, 2024 17:28:11 GMT -5
Blaming it on AOL-Time Warner execs and Jamie Kellner is also just too simplistic of an answer. WCW needed the TV deals, but the WCW of 1998 would have had television stations climbing over each other to land Nitro and Thunder if the decision to suddenly axe wrestling had been made at that time. At the very least, the WWF would have needed to actually outbid organizations willing to pay something close to market value if they wanted to own their biggest competitor had it been able to stay competitive after 1999. And the WWF of 2001 was not in a position to do that because the XFL was about to become a giant albatross for them. The fact is that Bischoff/Russo/Hogan/Nash/Sullivan/whoever put WCW in a position where wrestling's detractors had a chance to enact the killing blow, and Jamie Keller was the one who took it. Yeah, Russo, Hogan and Bischoff all had a hand in killing the company because if it was still making the money it was in 96/97 there is no way it gets chopped. Also if the company had some sort of actual structure at any point it might have also not happened. Kellner and Co. pulled the trigger but the rest of the usual suspects loaded the gun. |
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