Orton is bulletproof

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

"The only reason why HBK rose to the top of WWE during the mid-90's was because they had nobody else."

And THAT is my point. Who else would've kept the WWF afloat after they lost Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash within a 3 year time span? The Diesel/Mabel main event program wasn't exactly putting asses in the seats. If you dont think Shawn was a draw, Diesel, Yokozuna, guys like that (guys I both like, by the way) drew even less, I'd wager. I still stand by the fact that all it would've taken was Shawn Michaels showing up on Nitro in 1996 wearing an nWo t-shirt, and the party would be over for Vince.

Without Shawn to feud with Bret Hart, which (along with Austin) led to the formation of the Hart Foundation, Austin might not have gained the popularity he did, Austin vs McMahon might NEVER have happened, and the WWF WOULD be dead.

Just my opinion of course, but, still.

[Jack]

godz said:

"The only reason why HBK rose to the top of WWE during the mid-90's was because they had nobody else."

And THAT is my point. Who else would've kept the WWF afloat after they lost Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash within a 3 year time span? The Diesel/Mabel main event program wasn't exactly putting asses in the seats. If you dont think Shawn was a draw, Diesel, Yokozuna, guys like that (guys I both like, by the way) drew even less, I'd wager. I still stand by the fact that all it would've taken was Shawn Michaels showing up on Nitro in 1996 wearing an nWo t-shirt, and the party would be over for Vince.

Without Shawn to feud with Bret Hart, which (along with Austin) led to the formation of the Hart Foundation, Austin might not have gained the popularity he did, Austin vs McMahon might NEVER have happened, and the WWF WOULD be dead.

Just my opinion of course, but, still.

But then if you believe that HBK going on Nitro would have been the final nail in the coffin for Vince, why didn't HBK be it in his face, heel or DX runs make any significant impact in the war against the NWO? Surely if you think he could have been the extra ingrediant needed to tip the war completely over the edge then wouldn't he have some kind of track record by himself?

[Deleted]

It's not like WWE are overlooking Stone Cold and The Rock, in favour of Orton.

With Cena injured what alternatives are there?

HHH: Been there done that.

Kennedy: Not as proven as Orton. Injury prone, got suspended, is a bit of a moron.

Jeff Hardy: Known druggy, no shows events, botches moves.

Jericho: Hasn't wrestled in 2 years. Unkown whether fans will care about him.

Realistically Orton was the only choice for champion right now.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

tryme said:

godz said:

"The only reason why HBK rose to the top of WWE during the mid-90's was because they had nobody else."

And THAT is my point. Who else would've kept the WWF afloat after they lost Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash within a 3 year time span? The Diesel/Mabel main event program wasn't exactly putting asses in the seats. If you dont think Shawn was a draw, Diesel, Yokozuna, guys like that (guys I both like, by the way) drew even less, I'd wager. I still stand by the fact that all it would've taken was Shawn Michaels showing up on Nitro in 1996 wearing an nWo t-shirt, and the party would be over for Vince.

Without Shawn to feud with Bret Hart, which (along with Austin) led to the formation of the Hart Foundation, Austin might not have gained the popularity he did, Austin vs McMahon might NEVER have happened, and the WWF WOULD be dead.

Just my opinion of course, but, still.

But then if you believe that HBK going on Nitro would have been the final nail in the coffin for Vince, why didn't HBK be it in his face, heel or DX runs make any significant impact in the war against the NWO? Surely if you think he could have been the extra ingrediant needed to tip the war completely over the edge then wouldn't he have some kind of track record by himself?

Because the fans that were still supporting WWF in 1994-1996 were likely watching for one of three reasons: Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and/or The Undertaker.

We all know Bret didn't amount for diddily s**t when he went to WCW. Undertaker I don't think would've ever left WWF. Shawn would've drawn as a nWo member in WCW, it would've screamed contraversy.

Kinda like when X-Pac showed up on RAW and buried WCW, only with less unlikeable, greasy geribl looking men.

[Nice Guy Cody]

godz said:

See, the difference about guys like HBK, JBL, etc....not to excuse their "behavior", but, THEY WERE OVER! They were known for more than temper tantrums and chinlocks! JBL's title run was good.

HBK I'll grant you, JBL not so much . . .

[Ace Diamond]

brentreznor said:

It's not like WWE are overlooking Stone Cold and The Rock, in favour of Orton.

With Cena injured what alternatives are there?

HHH: Been there done that.

Kennedy: Not as proven as Orton. Injury prone, got suspended, is a bit of a moron.

eff Hardy: Known druggy, no shows events, botches moves.

Jericho: Hasn't wrestled in 2 years. Unkown whether fans will care about him.

Realistically Orton was the only choice for champion right now.

Randy Orton: Druggie like Jeff Hardy. Got suspended like Kennedy. Fans don't care about him like Jericho possibly (though all those Y2J chants suggest otherwise). Attitude problem that makes mid-90s HBK look Amish.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

codylockemitchell said:

godz said:

See, the difference about guys like HBK, JBL, etc....not to excuse their "behavior", but, THEY WERE OVER! They were known for more than temper tantrums and chinlocks! JBL's title run was good.

HBK I'll grant you, JBL not so much . . .

You didn't enjoy JBL's heel run at all? I don't care for the man as a person, but him coming out and shaking the fans hands, doing the "JBL!" chant, etc...cracked me up every time.

[Hemmeorrhage]

sexualwalking said:

Yeah I've given up on trying to understand the hypocrisy of the WWE. There's been guys with much lesser transgressions "wished well in thier future blah blah blahs" while Orton seems to try and pull off one major blunder a year and gets world title shots, title reigns, and booked like a complete bad ass.

The spot that a wrestler occupies on a roster is determined by way more than how that person acts outside the ring. Brian Kendrick seems like a nice guy. I have heard he is real nice to fans. However, I don't think "The legend killer" Brian Kendrick would go over very well. Orton plays his part well and therefore gets the nod. Perhaps his behavior has cost him the title belt before and the fans just aren't aware of that.

[Vinny McCool]

[••||--Z-y-D--||••]

So is there any actually proof that Orton ever did anything wrong.... or have you guys been reading the NEWZ sites too much.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

xordam said:

So is there any actually proof that Orton ever did anything wrong.... or have you guys been reading the NEWZ sites too much.

It was confirmed even by WWE magazine he was caught smoking weed backstage at a WWE show and suspended.

Got a 1 month vacation, came back, beat Kurt Angle on PPV.

I haven't heard anyone claim that his other drug violations or the hotel room trashing were false.

[••||--Z-y-D--||••]

godz said:

xordam said:

So is there any actually proof that Orton ever did anything wrong.... or have you guys been reading the NEWZ sites too much.

It was confirmed even by WWE magazine he was caught smoking weed backstage at a WWE show and suspended.

Got a 1 month vacation, came back, beat Kurt Angle on PPV.

I haven't heard anyone claim that his other drug violations or the hotel room trashing were false.

So WWE is reporting that a heel did bad stuff.... ? Not trying to say he's an angel or nothing but I think he understands kayfabe a bit more than most of the roster given how he grew up.

[CrazySting]

I find it odd people are saying Orton shouldn't be champion because of steroid violations, but ignore the fact that IWC favourites Edge and Rey have turned up on as many lists as he as. Should they be demoted as well?

I'm not saying he's perfect, but anyone trying to claim he is the single reason the wellness policy looks like a joke is seriously deluded.

[Desi]

cenamark21 said:

I find it odd people are saying Orton shouldn't be champion because of steroid violations, but ignore the fact that IWC favourites Edge and Rey have turned up on as many lists as he as. Should they be demoted as well?

I'm not saying he's perfect, but anyone trying to claim he is the single reason the wellness policy looks like a joke is seriously deluded.

Randy Orton doesn't make the Wellness Policy look like a joke. It's WWE's reactions to Randy's actions that make the Wellness Policy look like a joke.

[CrazySting]

setsunameioh said:

cenamark21 said:

I find it odd people are saying Orton shouldn't be champion because of steroid violations, but ignore the fact that IWC favourites Edge and Rey have turned up on as many lists as he as. Should they be demoted as well?

I'm not saying he's perfect, but anyone trying to claim he is the single reason the wellness policy looks like a joke is seriously deluded.

Randy Orton doesn't make the Wellness Policy look like a joke. It's WWE's reactions to Randy's actions that make the Wellness Policy look like a joke.

Orton wasn't suspended because he wasn't on the list the DA gave to WWE in August. According to Meltzer/Alvarez anyway.

And while we're talking about guys getting out of punishiments, you do realise Rey has never been punished for anything right?

[Desi]

cenamark21 said:

setsunameioh said:

Randy Orton doesn't make the Wellness Policy look like a joke. It's WWE's reactions to Randy's actions that make the Wellness Policy look like a joke.

Orton wasn't suspended because he wasn't on the list the DA gave to WWE in August. According to Meltzer/Alvarez anyway.

And while we're talking about guys getting out of punishiments, you do realise Rey has never been punished for anything right?

No, but we don't know the entire story. We can pick at every person's past all we want but Orton gets this negative reaction because he makes no effort to present himself in a positive light. As shady ass it is, people like Rey aren't getting punished because he in comparison isn't making the company look bad while Orton is.

But really, it doesn't matter, since it's just us who reads the dirtsheets who really care, the rest of the fans just boo him because He's a Heel and don't like him. It's not that serious. I kinda wish I could go back to being a blind mark sometimes.

[CrazySting]

setsunameioh said:

cenamark21 said:

Orton wasn't suspended because he wasn't on the list the DA gave to WWE in August. According to Meltzer/Alvarez anyway.

And while we're talking about guys getting out of punishiments, you do realise Rey has never been punished for anything right?

As shady ass it is, people like Rey aren't getting punished because he in comparison isn't making the company look bad while Orton is.

.

From a fox news interview prior to Summslam

Fox news lady: have you ever done steroids?

Rey: No.

Yeah, he's making the company look good.

[Jay Carroll]

setsunameioh said:

cenamark21 said:

Orton wasn't suspended because he wasn't on the list the DA gave to WWE in August. According to Meltzer/Alvarez anyway.

And while we're talking about guys getting out of punishiments, you do realise Rey has never been punished for anything right?

No, but we don't know the entire story. We can pick at every person's past all we want but Orton gets this negative reaction because he makes no effort to present himself in a positive light. As shady ass it is, people like Rey aren't getting punished because he in comparison isn't making the company look bad while Orton is.

But really, it doesn't matter, since it's just us who reads the dirtsheets who really care, the rest of the fans just boo him because He's a Heel and don't like him. It's not that serious. I kinda wish I could go back to being a blind mark sometimes.

yep, the good ol days... when i didnt have a smurfing idea that
Jericho was supposed to be coming back... as for Rey, he's marketed to kids. theres no was in hell the WWE is gonna suspend the hero for children due to roids. parents would refuse to buy merch...

[carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army)]

Can I humbly make a request? Can I ask that people not anymore say "X wrestler is over" or "X wrestler is not over"? Because we are all watching the same TV shows, and yet we all are coming off with these completely different reactions as to whether or not a dude gets booed or cheered and how loudly.

Seriously, people are watching the SAME THING and one person goes, "You can hear a pin drop!" and another one goes, "The fans pop every time!" and this happens like every single time anyone ever discusses anyone. It's bizarre, and it never goes anywhere.

[Danimal]

mysterydriver said:

cenamark21 said:

They've caught half the roster on roids.

And has any one seen HHH lately? He may not turn up on any lists but what message is he sending?

What message is that? Oh, right, roids. Cause you sold them to him?

The man was out with injury for a long time and has now returned. Wrestlers typically train a lot while on the road and now that he's back he could have very easily put size on by getting back into his regular and day-to-day workout schedule that he didn't get to do while injured.

It sounds like I'm talking in circles, but I'm just trying to make a point. I hate how people immediately go to the "Steroids" ideal.

I can't wait to see what happens when Bobby Lashley comes back from a rotator cuff injury that most definitely hampers lifting weights. We'll see "Bobby must be off the roids" posts and as he gains back size we'll see "I guess Bobby found his roids" posts.

Is it just me? Anyone?

Ya it is just you. Spent any time at the gym? I have, I'm not expert enough to pick-out the more borderline guys but HHH is juiced. Lashley is juiced. Accept it. Steroids aren't going away and the "wellness" policy is not going to be enforced the same on everyone. Fewer guys will be juiced and there will be more moderation but roids aren't being banished by a longshot.