Chris Masters and DH Smith fail Wellness Test

[Bram wants to 'urt you]

I find it interesting that both of them are suspended for violating the wellness policy, and immediately everyone jumps on the "Harry should know better, look at what steroids did to his father etc etc" train. We haven't been told exactly why they have been suspended have we?

It's just that we are all too keen to slag off the press for its 'roid based assumptions in any dead wrestler story, yet we seem to jump straight onto the same bandwagon, given half a chance.

[The OP]

Yep. How do we know they weren't caught smoking a joint together? That's why I haven't commented on this yet.

[ChibiDiablo]

faceturn said:

I find it interesting that both of them are suspended for violating the wellness policy, and immediately everyone jumps on the "Harry should know better, look at what steroids did to his father etc etc" train. We haven't been told exactly why they have been suspended have we?

It's just that we are all too keen to slag off the press for its 'roid based assumptions in any dead wrestler story, yet we seem to jump straight onto the same bandwagon, given half a chance.

Because a lot of us have read a lot about the wellness policy and steroids and have watched wrestling for years and can pretty much spot when a guy is on on the gas.

[krazysane]

I normally dont say this sorta thing but, Masters is a waste of talent. Get rid of him. He sucks as a in ring performer, he does drugs and he just sucks. GO away!

[voiceboxisback]

Oh DH, like father like son!

[General Zod]

tarheelfan said:

wrestlecrapcrap said:

Totally agree.

I absolutely hate people saying 'Vince needs to learn to stop pushing big guys'. It isn't a Vince problem, it's a wrestling trend that has been around for ages.

Big guys are an important part of the process. If you didn't have huge men that could put over the more well rounded guys, no one would be that over. Or maybe they would, but it would take a lot more complicated process and take longer to acheive than simply beating a big guy would acheive.

Has anyone stopped to think why they don't just do 2 hours of cruserweights every night? It's because they don't draw! They will put on entertaining matches, but it will just be back and forth with no one really becomming a superstar out of it. Big guys are vital, it isn't a Vince problem. It is short sighted to claim it is.

As someone who has actually watched wrestling for thirty years this is a true statement. Wrestling has always had big guys (although they may not have had chiseled physiques per se). I think a lot of posters here dont get or grasp the concept that although wrestling is a staged sport that there has always been a concept that matches should be portrayed as though they were real. In other words wrestling should in theory have a believability factor even though everyone knows that it is fake. Whether the so called smarks like it or not, it does not bode well with the majority and mainstream of fans when you have a 6'0 220 pound champion when you have other guys in the company that are 6'3 280 pounds to use as an example. Ratings plummet when all you have is cruiserweight acrobatic style chain wrestlers. You might say then what about the old NWA? The old NWA had big guys as well and in actuality the NWA although known for its great technical matches was actually stiffer and much more prone to brawling matches than even the WWE of the 1980s were. So it is not like having big guys as a huge concept is soley a Vince of the 1980s thing. Let me end by saying that I do not dislike technical matches. Far be it, but you can't to use an analogy satisfy a wrestling fans diet just on carbohydrates alone but on protein also. I would be bored if the whole show was a chainfest and like it or not most fans would. What I have always said makes wrestling great is that it has varying matches of different stles whether technical, power or brawling. To concentrate on just one stlye would be to rob the fans of what makes this industry great. And as a person who has probably forgot more matches than the number of matches a lot of people have seen here I think I can say that I know what I am talking about.

I've been a wrestling fan for over 30 years myself at this point. So I've forgotten just as many matches as you have, pal.

I also think that I'm entitled to my opinion. But not because I've been a fan longer than some of our posters have been alive. Age, or "time in rank" has nothing to do with your or my devotion to the industry as fans. So don't go there with me, 'cause you can't win. ;D

Also, I think you misconstrue the message I'm trying to get across. I'm not knocking big guys. I fully realize that big guys are an important part of this industry. But as was illustrated earlier, how big is too big? How big is over-the-top big? When does the issue expend itself into the cruiserweight ranks, because if you want to be a star, you have to look like a star?

No, I'm not against "big guys" as a whole. I'm against the muscle-bound freaks (Batista) who set the bar and example for the rest of the roster to live up to. You can be a crusierweight and still be on the juice. I'm sure that many in that company know that a crusier will never be taken seriously by that company (even Rey Jr., sorry folks, his title run was abysmal!), but if you can at least look like a minature version of an out of training weight lifter, you'll be the best of the worst at least. Right?

Therein lies the heart of the issue. Vince has always had a thing for the beefy look. And it doesn't matter if you're 6 foot 5 in tall, or 5 foot 6.

In addition, I'm not suggesting the card be a spot fest. Why would the in ring action have to change? I'm confused by this. I'm not suggesting anything about the styles changing. I realize the importance for everything on the card to be as it is. That isn't to say that things aren't out of hand on another front. Which, of course, certainly *is* the issue.

And to whomever said that it was a market issue - the fan based market of supply and demand for "bigger guys", I can truthfully say that you're full of it. Durring the 1980's and 90's, Ric Flair never weighed more than 245 lbs. Most of the time, he was right around 238 - just three pounds away from (technically) being a crusierweight. Yet he always got the biggest pops of the night.

Oh, and he's a multi-time world heavyweight champion with victories over guys like Vader, Hogan, Sting, Randy Savage, and Dusty Rhodes and Harley Race - some of which were pretty important people who certainly had a lot of pull back in the day, wouldn't you say?

It wasn't because he was monster. And it wasn't because the fans were demanding Sid be the champ (anywhere!). It was because of two things.

1) Ric Flair has something in abundance that 80 % of that whole roster has yet to find. Charisma.

and

2) At the time, JCP and the NWA pushed Flair in the right manner, thus establishing a repoire with their fanbase to say "You don't need to cheer for a juiced up hulk, brother. Our world champion could outwrestle that orange goblin in a heartbeat.", and you know what? They were right. The NWA was right because the fans bought into it. And the fans bought into it because the NWA told you it was the gospel; they made you beleive.

Thanks to Vince McMahon's love for all things ripped and beefy, most WWE fans can't tell the difference between a wristlock and a wristwatch. And those that can seemingly don't care because they'll eat whatever Papa Vinny feeds 'em.

Sorry, but I will never see the point of view that the industry is the way it is because the fans make any choices other than who they cheer and what seats they're going to purchase. You're being manipulated into liking the big, block muscle look for the last 25 years thanks to Vinny. It's no wonder some of you have the opinion you do.

[Avalanche Alvarez]

So the new Hart Foundation is put more on hold than before?
Bad move, D.H. Really bad move.
And Masters should've known better, considering his earlier suspension.

[tarheelfan]

darthfaker said:

tarheelfan said:

As someone who has actually watched wrestling for thirty years this is a true statement. Wrestling has always had big guys (although they may not have had chiseled physiques per se). I think a lot of posters here dont get or grasp the concept that although wrestling is a staged sport that there has always been a concept that matches should be portrayed as though they were real. In other words wrestling should in theory have a believability factor even though everyone knows that it is fake. Whether the so called smarks like it or not, it does not bode well with the majority and mainstream of fans when you have a 6'0 220 pound champion when you have other guys in the company that are 6'3 280 pounds to use as an example. Ratings plummet when all you have is cruiserweight acrobatic style chain wrestlers. You might say then what about the old NWA? The old NWA had big guys as well and in actuality the NWA although known for its great technical matches was actually stiffer and much more prone to brawling matches than even the WWE of the 1980s were. So it is not like having big guys as a huge concept is soley a Vince of the 1980s thing. Let me end by saying that I do not dislike technical matches. Far be it, but you can't to use an analogy satisfy a wrestling fans diet just on carbohydrates alone but on protein also. I would be bored if the whole show was a chainfest and like it or not most fans would. What I have always said makes wrestling great is that it has varying matches of different stles whether technical, power or brawling. To concentrate on just one stlye would be to rob the fans of what makes this industry great. And as a person who has probably forgot more matches than the number of matches a lot of people have seen here I think I can say that I know what I am talking about.

I've been a wrestling fan for over 30 years myself at this point. So I've forgotten just as many matches as you have, pal.

I also think that I'm entitled to my opinion. But not because I've been a fan longer than some of our posters have been alive. Age, or "time in rank" has nothing to do with your or my devotion to the industry as fans. So don't go there with me, 'cause you can't win. ;D

Also, I think you misconstrue the message I'm trying to get across. I'm not knocking big guys. I fully realize that big guys are an important part of this industry. But as was illustrated earlier, how big is too big? How big is over-the-top big? When does the issue expend itself into the cruiserweight ranks, because if you want to be a star, you have to look like a star?

No, I'm not against "big guys" as a whole. I'm against the muscle-bound freaks (Batista) who set the bar and example for the rest of the roster to live up to. You can be a crusierweight and still be on the juice. I'm sure that many in that company know that a crusier will never be taken seriously by that company (even Rey Jr., sorry folks, his title run was abysmal!), but if you can at least look like a minature version of an out of training weight lifter, you'll be the best of the worst at least. Right?

Therein lies the heart of the issue. Vince has always had a thing for the beefy look. And it doesn't matter if you're 6 foot 5 in tall, or 5 foot 6.

In addition, I'm not suggesting the card be a spot fest. Why would the in ring action have to change? I'm confused by this. I'm not suggesting anything about the styles changing. I realize the importance for everything on the card to be as it is. That isn't to say that things aren't out of hand on another front. Which, of course, certainly *is* the issue.

And to whomever said that it was a market issue - the fan based market of supply and demand for "bigger guys", I can truthfully say that you're full of it. Durring the 1980's and 90's, Ric Flair never weighed more than 245 lbs. Most of the time, he was right around 238 - just three pounds away from (technically) being a crusierweight. Yet he always got the biggest pops of the night.

Oh, and he's a multi-time world heavyweight champion with victories over guys like Vader, Hogan, Sting, Randy Savage, and Dusty Rhodes and Harley Race - some of which were pretty important people who certainly had a lot of pull back in the day, wouldn't you say?

It wasn't because he was monster. And it wasn't because the fans were demanding Sid be the champ (anywhere!). It was because of two things.

1) Ric Flair has something in abundance that 80 % of that whole roster has yet to find. Charisma.

and

2) At the time, JCP and the NWA pushed Flair in the right manner, thus establishing a repoire with their fanbase to say "You don't need to cheer for a juiced up hulk, brother. Our world champion could outwrestle that orange goblin in a heartbeat.", and you know what? They were right. The NWA was right because the fans bought into it. And the fans bought into it because the NWA told you it was the gospel; they made you beleive.

Thanks to Vince McMahon's love for all things ripped and beefy, most WWE fans can't tell the difference between a wristlock and a wristwatch. And those that can seemingly don't care because they'll eat whatever Papa Vinny feeds 'em.

Sorry, but I will never see the point of view that the industry is the way it is because the fans make any choices other than who they cheer and what seats they're going to purchase. You're being manipulated into liking the big, block muscle look for the last 25 years thanks to Vinny. It's no wonder some of you have the opinion you do.

Actually you would be surprised that I agree with a lot of what you say. And although I like Hogan, I was more of a NWA guy in the 1980s than I liked the WWE. But you stated a great point about Flair. In that he had charisma. Flair has one of the best ring psychologys I have ever seen and he connects with the fans because of his flamboyance and charisma and not to mention he had impeccable stamina and was an above average wrestler in skills. So I am just as much as a Flair mark as I am a Hogan mark. But the problem is that a lot of todays 6'0 220 pound chain wrestlers have zero charisma or ring psychology and ability to connect to the crowd. Quite frankly Flair did not have to be a big guy because he had charisma. And that is how wrestling ultimately works in who can connect to the crowd the best. As far as the "I've been watching wrestling longer thing" I will stand by that premise when it comes to a lot of posters because a lot of internet posters have no idea how wrestling was really like even as little a short time frame as ten years ago. Go back and watch the 1970s and 1980s NWA and you will see that a lot of the NWA guys were pretty big guys(the Kolloffs, Road Warriors, Blackjack Mulligan, Dusty Rhodes, One Man Gang, Barbarian and the Missing Link before they went to the WWE among others). Usually the 220 pound guys were the jobbers in the NWA.

[thesunbeast]

darthfaker said:

tarheelfan said:

As someone who has actually watched wrestling for thirty years this is a true statement. Wrestling has always had big guys (although they may not have had chiseled physiques per se). I think a lot of posters here dont get or grasp the concept that although wrestling is a staged sport that there has always been a concept that matches should be portrayed as though they were real. In other words wrestling should in theory have a believability factor even though everyone knows that it is fake. Whether the so called smarks like it or not, it does not bode well with the majority and mainstream of fans when you have a 6'0 220 pound champion when you have other guys in the company that are 6'3 280 pounds to use as an example. Ratings plummet when all you have is cruiserweight acrobatic style chain wrestlers. You might say then what about the old NWA? The old NWA had big guys as well and in actuality the NWA although known for its great technical matches was actually stiffer and much more prone to brawling matches than even the WWE of the 1980s were. So it is not like having big guys as a huge concept is soley a Vince of the 1980s thing. Let me end by saying that I do not dislike technical matches. Far be it, but you can't to use an analogy satisfy a wrestling fans diet just on carbohydrates alone but on protein also. I would be bored if the whole show was a chainfest and like it or not most fans would. What I have always said makes wrestling great is that it has varying matches of different stles whether technical, power or brawling. To concentrate on just one stlye would be to rob the fans of what makes this industry great. And as a person who has probably forgot more matches than the number of matches a lot of people have seen here I think I can say that I know what I am talking about.

I've been a wrestling fan for over 30 years myself at this point. So I've forgotten just as many matches as you have, pal.

I also think that I'm entitled to my opinion. But not because I've been a fan longer than some of our posters have been alive. Age, or "time in rank" has nothing to do with your or my devotion to the industry as fans. So don't go there with me, 'cause you can't win. ;D

Also, I think you misconstrue the message I'm trying to get across. I'm not knocking big guys. I fully realize that big guys are an important part of this industry. But as was illustrated earlier, how big is too big? How big is over-the-top big? When does the issue expend itself into the cruiserweight ranks, because if you want to be a star, you have to look like a star?

No, I'm not against "big guys" as a whole. I'm against the muscle-bound freaks (Batista) who set the bar and example for the rest of the roster to live up to. You can be a crusierweight and still be on the juice. I'm sure that many in that company know that a crusier will never be taken seriously by that company (even Rey Jr., sorry folks, his title run was abysmal!), but if you can at least look like a minature version of an out of training weight lifter, you'll be the best of the worst at least. Right?

Therein lies the heart of the issue. Vince has always had a thing for the beefy look. And it doesn't matter if you're 6 foot 5 in tall, or 5 foot 6.

In addition, I'm not suggesting the card be a spot fest. Why would the in ring action have to change? I'm confused by this. I'm not suggesting anything about the styles changing. I realize the importance for everything on the card to be as it is. That isn't to say that things aren't out of hand on another front. Which, of course, certainly *is* the issue.

And to whomever said that it was a market issue - the fan based market of supply and demand for "bigger guys", I can truthfully say that you're full of it. Durring the 1980's and 90's, Ric Flair never weighed more than 245 lbs. Most of the time, he was right around 238 - just three pounds away from (technically) being a crusierweight. Yet he always got the biggest pops of the night.

Oh, and he's a multi-time world heavyweight champion with victories over guys like Vader, Hogan, Sting, Randy Savage, and Dusty Rhodes and Harley Race - some of which were pretty important people who certainly had a lot of pull back in the day, wouldn't you say?

It wasn't because he was monster. And it wasn't because the fans were demanding Sid be the champ (anywhere!). It was because of two things.

1) Ric Flair has something in abundance that 80 % of that whole roster has yet to find. Charisma.

and

2) At the time, JCP and the NWA pushed Flair in the right manner, thus establishing a repoire with their fanbase to say "You don't need to cheer for a juiced up hulk, brother. Our world champion could outwrestle that orange goblin in a heartbeat.", and you know what? They were right. The NWA was right because the fans bought into it. And the fans bought into it because the NWA told you it was the gospel; they made you beleive.

Thanks to Vince McMahon's love for all things ripped and beefy, most WWE fans can't tell the difference between a wristlock and a wristwatch. And those that can seemingly don't care because they'll eat whatever Papa Vinny feeds 'em.

Sorry, but I will never see the point of view that the industry is the way it is because the fans make any choices other than who they cheer and what seats they're going to purchase. You're being manipulated into liking the big, block muscle look for the last 25 years thanks to Vinny. It's no wonder some of you have the opinion you do.

Before you go pointing out all the guys that were 230 lbs and were not only main eventers but the flagship of the company, you need to go back and read what I said again. Before you throw out the accusation of me being "full of it".

[AriadosMan]

The fact that they put up the number of violations for each guy is surprising, WWE usually isn't this transparent.

They're probably gonna punish Masters by having Hornswoggle break the Masterlock when he comes back.

[samachine]

Wow, what a bunch of idiots..

[David Otunga: Eternian at Law]

Masters on the juice? Nooooooooooo can't be.


And it's nice to see DH is so closely following in the footsteps of his father, anyone wanna take bets on the age he dies of a heart attack following years of steriod abuse?

Man as Red Forman says, "DUMBASS!"

[General Zod]

tarheelfan said:

darthfaker said:

I've been a wrestling fan for over 30 years myself at this point. So I've forgotten just as many matches as you have, pal.

I also think that I'm entitled to my opinion. But not because I've been a fan longer than some of our posters have been alive. Age, or "time in rank" has nothing to do with your or my devotion to the industry as fans. So don't go there with me, 'cause you can't win. ;D

Also, I think you misconstrue the message I'm trying to get across. I'm not knocking big guys. I fully realize that big guys are an important part of this industry. But as was illustrated earlier, how big is too big? How big is over-the-top big? When does the issue expend itself into the cruiserweight ranks, because if you want to be a star, you have to look like a star?

No, I'm not against "big guys" as a whole. I'm against the muscle-bound freaks (Batista) who set the bar and example for the rest of the roster to live up to. You can be a crusierweight and still be on the juice. I'm sure that many in that company know that a crusier will never be taken seriously by that company (even Rey Jr., sorry folks, his title run was abysmal!), but if you can at least look like a minature version of an out of training weight lifter, you'll be the best of the worst at least. Right?

Therein lies the heart of the issue. Vince has always had a thing for the beefy look. And it doesn't matter if you're 6 foot 5 in tall, or 5 foot 6.

In addition, I'm not suggesting the card be a spot fest. Why would the in ring action have to change? I'm confused by this. I'm not suggesting anything about the styles changing. I realize the importance for everything on the card to be as it is. That isn't to say that things aren't out of hand on another front. Which, of course, certainly *is* the issue.

And to whomever said that it was a market issue - the fan based market of supply and demand for "bigger guys", I can truthfully say that you're full of it. Durring the 1980's and 90's, Ric Flair never weighed more than 245 lbs. Most of the time, he was right around 238 - just three pounds away from (technically) being a crusierweight. Yet he always got the biggest pops of the night.

Oh, and he's a multi-time world heavyweight champion with victories over guys like Vader, Hogan, Sting, Randy Savage, and Dusty Rhodes and Harley Race - some of which were pretty important people who certainly had a lot of pull back in the day, wouldn't you say?

It wasn't because he was monster. And it wasn't because the fans were demanding Sid be the champ (anywhere!). It was because of two things.

1) Ric Flair has something in abundance that 80 % of that whole roster has yet to find. Charisma.

and

2) At the time, JCP and the NWA pushed Flair in the right manner, thus establishing a repoire with their fanbase to say "You don't need to cheer for a juiced up hulk, brother. Our world champion could outwrestle that orange goblin in a heartbeat.", and you know what? They were right. The NWA was right because the fans bought into it. And the fans bought into it because the NWA told you it was the gospel; they made you beleive.

Thanks to Vince McMahon's love for all things ripped and beefy, most WWE fans can't tell the difference between a wristlock and a wristwatch. And those that can seemingly don't care because they'll eat whatever Papa Vinny feeds 'em.

Sorry, but I will never see the point of view that the industry is the way it is because the fans make any choices other than who they cheer and what seats they're going to purchase. You're being manipulated into liking the big, block muscle look for the last 25 years thanks to Vinny. It's no wonder some of you have the opinion you do.

Actually you would be surprised that I agree with a lot of what you say. And although I like Hogan, I was more of a NWA guy in the 1980s than I liked the WWE. But you stated a great point about Flair. In that he had charisma. Flair has one of the best ring psychologys I have ever seen and he connects with the fans because of his flamboyance and charisma and not to mention he had impeccable stamina and was an above average wrestler in skills. So I am just as much as a Flair mark as I am a Hogan mark. But the problem is that a lot of todays 6'0 220 pound chain wrestlers have zero charisma or ring psychology and ability to connect to the crowd. Quite frankly Flair did not have to be a big guy because he had charisma. And that is how wrestling ultimately works in who can connect to the crowd the best. As far as the "I've been watching wrestling longer thing" I will stand by that premise when it comes to a lot of posters because a lot of internet posters have no idea how wrestling was really like even as little a short time frame as ten years ago. Go back and watch the 1970s and 1980s NWA and you will see that a lot of the NWA guys were pretty big guys(the Kolloffs, Road Warriors, Blackjack Mulligan, Dusty Rhodes, One Man Gang, Barbarian and the Missing Link before they went to the WWE among others). Usually the 220 pound guys were the jobbers in the NWA.

And I can't disagree with too much of that, either. I too, miss the glory days when ring psychology was more important than (or in addition to) one's physical prowess.

In fact, you hit the nail on the head. The guys back then had charisma. Imposing physiques were nice, but if you couldn't draw a crowd, it often didn't matter if you had the world's best physique or not. You simply didn't get to showcase your "skills" if you weren't well rounded enough to participate where the bar was set. That's just how it went back then.

I also feel the need to point out that many of the "big" guys back then (even the ones you listed) weren't exactly matinee idols. Dusty Rhodes, One Man Gang, and even Black Jack Mulligan were probably the farthest thing from "ripped" you would find on any roster. And yet, they succeeded. Why? Because they had charisma. Back then, the Road Warriors and Nikita Kolloff were exceptions to the rule. Dare I say you would argue with me much if I best described guys like Chris Masters (in the words of Roddy Piper) Don Murraco, he ain't!

Is it any wonder why an emphasis is put on physique over charisma these days? You can't teach charisma. Either you got it or you don't. Ric Flair is spilling over the top with charisma, where as Chris Masters has a hard time filling a thimble's worth. If I were Masters, and I saw the writing on the wall, I'd enhance myself too. Especially if I got made fun of on live national television for looking "thinner" by the boss's son in law.

And he's not the only one! I can't count the number of times I've watched documentaries, or seen interviews, or read for myself, the front office at WWE Headquarters asking guys to improve their physiques before coming back. Look at how many guys came to the WWE looking a certain way, only to fill out later on? I assure you, it's not because these wrestlers are still "growing boys". If they're doing it of their own accord, naturally, then good for them. If they're juicing in order to get there? Well...all I gotta say is look at the wellness policy track record, and I think it speaks for itself. Masters and DH Smith are just the latest two. Last time it was eleven - count them - eleven guys all at once on a wellness suspension. The numbers don't lie. Just Kennedy does.

All kidding aside...

The way I see it, it's simple. The current culture has been created by a couple of things. One of which is the virtual monopoly McMahon has on "sports entertainment", and the other is lack of choice when it comes to selecting who gets TV time and who truly deserves it. When you are forced to showcase guys that aren't ready for the spotlight yet, it hurts your product. When the industry has built itself up for years to accomodate territorial organizations, national brands, and worldwide acclaim, only to have a wrestler's options exponentially shirnk by 2/3rds in less than a year, it hurts the product. One would *think* that with all those extra wrestlers floating around there, Vinny would play it smart and grab those most talented individuals (of whom are willing to work within his system), but no. Instead he hires meat puppets like Chris Masters and DH Smith based on cosmetics and nepotism. I'm sure the both of us could sit here between us and list out an entire roster of guys not employed by the WWE who could be, and would be a damn sight better than some of the donuts they have on the roster right now.

My eventual point to all of this (if I am forced to sumarize) is that there is a scary trend, of which I'm sure you, as a veteran fan like me, can see happening right before our eyes. I fear that if something beyond the scope of a flimsy wellness policy doesn't work, guys like you and I won't be able to enjoy the next 30 years. I'm sure that you, like me, have a hard time enjoying some of today's product for the very reasons we've discussed. And if Vince McMahon (who, wether we like it or not, controls North American Wrestling right now) doesn't change the antiquated "beefy" culture that he himself created, we may not be able to enjoy another 5 years of wrestling.

In essence, quit making the talent feel as though they need to look a certain way in order to be on TV (a term often married with "success" in this industry), and start finding guys with real talent again. One doesn't need to look like Goldberg or Batista to be a success in this industry. It is only that way now because Vince McMahon says so.

[AriadosMan]

^ Exactly, when has McMahon pushed normal-looking people instead of guys who look like He-Man? Almost never (about the only time I can think of was HBK/Bret, and that was during the last steroid scandal)

[Kae]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. In some ways, I feel sorry for Masters. If you look at how he was booked at the beginning, 99% of his push was based on him having this unnaturally muscular, oversized physique. You can't really blame him for thinking that's the path to success, considering that's the message the WWE has given to him.

That's the problem with Wellness. The WWE claims that it wants its performers to be clean, but tends to push ones who have an enhanced physique. Some can achieve it naturally; others simply can't. Unless they change that standard, their suspensions won't accomplish much more than punishing the poor bastards who get caught.

[Kae]

Has anyone stopped to think why they don't just do 2 hours of cruserweights every night? It's because they don't draw! They will put on entertaining matches, but it will just be back and forth with no one really becomming a superstar out of it. Big guys are vital, it isn't a Vince problem. It is short sighted to claim it is.

I disagree with this statement. If you look at TNA's PPVs, the shows with the highest buyrates were the ones featuring the X-Division. The X-Division was what made that company unique and successful at its inception and was the most anticipated part of any card, although they've sadly pissed that away in recent years. So, cruiserweights can draw, if they are booked in such a way that people will care about them.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

brentreznor said:

basicboogeynomix said:

why can't it be that way for masters too?

why does it have to be steroids? last time he got suspended it was his addiction to pain killers and he's been using anti-depressants

Well I never heard that. All I know is when he came back the first time, he was a good 30 pounds lighter.

You probably don't get a lot of time at the gym while in Rehab.

[thesunbeast]

I haven't been watching for 30 years, I've been watching for 18 years, but here is what I've always found, and I'll take this from another post I made in another thread:

I say that you have a better chance of making it big when you're bigger, but as far as making as the "cream of the crop", you know, the flagship, the golden goose, the measuring stick, the guy that the company is going to be built around, chances are it's going to be a more mainstream, average sized, "in the middle" type of guy with alot of charisma and talent.

In the era where guys like Big John Studd, Bam Bam Bigelo, King Kong Bundy, One Man Gang, and Andre the Giant "made it" because of their size, as well as bodybuilder-esque guys like Herculese, Warrior, and Rick Rude, It was Hogan who was leading the pack.

In an era where guys like Diesel, Undertaker, Vader, Yokozuna, Bam Bam Bigelo, King Kong Bundy, Kama, and Sycho Sid "made it" because of their size, and bodybuilder-esque guys like Ahmed Johnson, Lex Luger, and Warrior, It was Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels who were leading the pack.

In an era where guys like Kane, Undertaker, Sid, Viscera, LOD, Big Show, Rikishi, "made it" because of their size, and bodybuilder-esque guys like Bulldog and HHH, It was Stone Cold leading the pack.

In an era where guys like Undertaker, Kane, Snitsky, Umaga, Mark Henry, Boogeyman, Khali, Kevin Thorn, and Big Daddy V have "made it" because of their size, and bodybuilder-esque guys like Chris Masters, It's John Cena that's the leader of the pack. This is the first time that bodybuilder-esque guys like Lashley and Batista have been given a chance to run with the ball and actually stay with it, as well as HHH earlier, but that's because Rock and Austin left.

See, The big, "freak of nature" type guys are a good challenge for the "mainstream" guy to overcome. That's why they're there. They're something different to look st. So yes, If you're 7ft tall and 350 lbs, you'll have an eiser time getting a job with WWE, but that's all you'll basically have, is a spot on the roster. If you want to be the guy winning the main event of Wrestlemania for multiple years, and you want to be the guy that's carrying the company on your back for many years, you better not be 7ft tall and 350 lbs.

Charisma is most important, but connection with the crowd is also important, and It's easier for the crowd to connect with someone who is understandable to them. A giant serial killer in a movie, that wears a hocky mask and carries a chainsaw, the crowd won't connect with. The guy running away from him, the crowd easily connects with, and will be the main charactor of the movie. But who is selling the movie? Probably the guy that's destined to be beaten, even as a supporting actor.

In WWE, this is what the big guys, the bodybuilder guys, and the 500 pounders are used for. Yes, they get "pushes", but lets not be too vague about that. Their push will only go so far. If Chris Masters were to ever become champion, it would only be so that he could loose it to Cena ect..ect...

[jzbadblood]

realfakerazor said:

^ Exactly, when has McMahon pushed normal-looking people instead of guys who look like He-Man? Almost never (about the only time I can think of was HBK/Bret, and that was during the last steroid scandal)

Mick Foley? CM Punk?

[Corporate H]

Does DH stand for Drug Habit?! LOLOLOLOLOLOLLL

Sorry. Did somebody already use that one?