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Post by rapidfire187 on May 22, 2011 14:43:25 GMT -5
I agree with you. FFVII haters have become a LOT more outspoken over the past few years, and nobody really acts like it's objectively the GREATEST GAME EVAR anymore. I also agree that it's a damn masterpiece. It's not even my favorite FF, nor the game that got me into the series, but it's still a damned incredible game. I actually like the spinoff/Compilation stuff too. What about those of use who thought FF7 was overrated.... in 1997? It's not a damn masterpiece, it's a damn mess. I found absolutely NONE of the characters even the SLIGHTEST bit likable (except Zack, and he was killed off before the game even began), a disastrous translation ("Pale Holes", "This guy are sick", etc.), and a final boss setup where if you don't grind (at least to the point where you don't activate the boss's extra health), and you don't go for any of the special optional stuff (Knights of the Round, Omnislash, 3 Ribbons), you're pretty much not going to win. Mainly, though, it's the concept of having a cast of completely unlikable characters that ruins it for me. Well what RPG's do you like? It stands to reason that they're probably RPG's that I didn't like very much or haven't experienced yet. I can't even pin point what type of RPG's I like. My favorites are FF6 7 8 and 9, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Illusion of Gaia and Rogue Galaxy. There's been tons of RPGs that I started to play and just didn't like at all. Including Xenogears, which tons of people say is the greatest RPG on the PSX. IMO THAT is an overrated game. I didn't play FF7 for the characters, I played for the story. Sure the story is very complicated and doesn't make much sense, but it was enthralling. Though I don't see what was so unlikeable about the characters. Sure, Cloud was all mopey and whatnot but you would be too if all of your memories belonged to somebody else and you were also trying to save the world from total destruction... Maybe it's an age difference. I first experienced Final Fantasy 7 as an 11 year old.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,126
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 22, 2011 15:12:11 GMT -5
What about those of use who thought FF7 was overrated.... in 1997? It's not a damn masterpiece, it's a damn mess. I found absolutely NONE of the characters even the SLIGHTEST bit likable (except Zack, and he was killed off before the game even began), a disastrous translation ("Pale Holes", "This guy are sick", etc.), and a final boss setup where if you don't grind (at least to the point where you don't activate the boss's extra health), and you don't go for any of the special optional stuff (Knights of the Round, Omnislash, 3 Ribbons), you're pretty much not going to win. Mainly, though, it's the concept of having a cast of completely unlikable characters that ruins it for me. Well what RPG's do you like? It stands to reason that they're probably RPG's that I didn't like very much or haven't experienced yet. I can't even pin point what type of RPG's I like. My favorites are FF6 7 8 and 9, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Illusion of Gaia and Rogue Galaxy. There's been tons of RPGs that I started to play and just didn't like at all. Including Xenogears, which tons of people say is the greatest RPG on the PSX. IMO THAT is an overrated game. I didn't play FF7 for the characters, I played for the story. Sure the story is very complicated and doesn't make much sense, but it was enthralling. Though I don't see what was so unlikeable about the characters. Sure, Cloud was all mopey and whatnot but you would be too if all of your memories belonged to somebody else and you were also trying to save the world from total destruction... Maybe it's an age difference. I first experienced Final Fantasy 7 as an 11 year old. Let me just tell you, I _REALLY_ appreciate the insinuation that I'm too stupid to get how complex FF7's story is. That aside, the RPGs I like are Phantasy Star 4 (which FF7 stole so much of its superstructure from wholesale), Suikoden 1, Valkyrie Profile, Chrono Trigger, Mystic Ark. As far as Strategy RPGs : Shining Force (1, 2, Final Conflict, 3), Makai Kingdom, Arc the Lad As far as Action RPGs : Brain Lord, Crystalis, the entire Ys series, the Lufia 2 remake for DS. I love Illusion of Gaia, but don't consider it to be an RPG at all.
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Post by Red Impact on May 22, 2011 15:37:13 GMT -5
7's story isn't really that complex in the end. It has a twist or two, but nothing you don't really expect from RPG's. It was the first big RPG hit of it's generation though, I just didn't really see what was so great about it when it came out, having played other RPG's first. (Also, contrary to popular belief, if we have to put the title of "game that sold the system" to any single game, it'd have to be Gran Turismo, since that sold more than FFVII).
Uncharted 1 wasn't even a good game to me. The game was a pure slog, a mess where they threw another battle at you ever few steps just because they needed to extend the playing time. The platforming was awful it really was just plain tedious at the end. They did a lot better job in the sequel with spacing the battles out, although the platforming was still a joke.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,126
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 22, 2011 16:30:14 GMT -5
7's story isn't really that complex in the end. It has a twist or tow, but nothing you don't really expect from RPG's. It was the first big RPG hit of it's generation though, I just didn't really see what was so great about it when it came out, having played other RPG's first. (Also, contrary to popular belief, if we have to put the title of "game that sold the system" to any single game, it'd be Gran Turismo, since that sold more than FFVII). Uncharted 1 wasn't even a good game to me. The game was a pure slog, a mess where they threw another battle at you ever few steps just because they needed to extend the playing time. The platforming was awful it really was just plain tedious at the end. They did a lot better job in the sequel with spacing the battles out, although the platforming was still a joke. For me, "The Game That Sold the System", just on a personal level, was Tekken 2.
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Post by Red Impact on May 22, 2011 16:57:48 GMT -5
7's story isn't really that complex in the end. It has a twist or tow, but nothing you don't really expect from RPG's. It was the first big RPG hit of it's generation though, I just didn't really see what was so great about it when it came out, having played other RPG's first. (Also, contrary to popular belief, if we have to put the title of "game that sold the system" to any single game, it'd be Gran Turismo, since that sold more than FFVII). Uncharted 1 wasn't even a good game to me. The game was a pure slog, a mess where they threw another battle at you ever few steps just because they needed to extend the playing time. The platforming was awful it really was just plain tedious at the end. They did a lot better job in the sequel with spacing the battles out, although the platforming was still a joke. For me, "The Game That Sold the System", just on a personal level, was Tekken 2. I bought it for Final Fantasy Tactics, personally. Then Metal Gear Solid.
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Post by Johnny Truant on May 22, 2011 16:59:55 GMT -5
I bought a PSX for Metal Gear Solid.
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Phosphor Glow
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Is a real girl!
Posts: 19,871
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Post by Phosphor Glow on May 22, 2011 17:18:14 GMT -5
I got my PSX for Chrono Cross. Well, and many, many other games. But it's the game that pushed me to get one.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2011 17:24:12 GMT -5
The Modern Warfare and GTA series. Besides a few other series that I haven't played and therefore can't judge, I truly believe that some people think those are the only games that exist in the universe.
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Post by texaswhopper on May 22, 2011 17:24:38 GMT -5
It is the MMO that got me into the MMOs but I like it and it hate so much at the same time. World of Warcraft introduced me to of basic concepts of massive online gaming. Eventually I saw the ugliness that comes with 12 million or so people playing a game. I probably hate about 9 million of em.
That old phrase "When you work with the public you see it all." makes me think of WOW because when you play a game this big with the public you see it all. When I played some days it was like World of Scumbags.
Peoples egos in WOW are sickening at times to where you know they HAVE to be addicted to the game.
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Post by noleafclover1980 on May 22, 2011 18:14:20 GMT -5
God of War series. Nothing but a mindless button masher . TBQH that's why I love it. Anyway COD series is overrated as hell Most of war FPS are. Why are you making those? Especially when you focus only on one part of WWII..... There was so many interesting battles but no - we will do only D day.... As Dan Vávra said- Italy was interesting, I don't know why other designers don't use it. That's why I actually liked CoD:World at War a lot (even though it seems to be majorly disliked by a lot of the CoD crowd) it has a fresher spin on the genre as it is split between the two theaters of war. In the missions where you play as an American, it is entirely in the South Pacific, and the parts of the game set in the European theater you play as a soldier in the Russian army, ending in the Battle of Berlin.
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Post by noleafclover1980 on May 23, 2011 5:15:01 GMT -5
It is the MMO that got me into the MMOs but I like it and it hate so much at the same time. World of Warcraft introduced me to of basic concepts of massive online gaming. Eventually I saw the ugliness that comes with 12 million or so people playing a game. I probably hate about 9 million of em. That old phrase "When you work with the public you see it all." makes me think of WOW because when you play a game this big with the public you see it all. When I played some days it was like World of Scumbags. Peoples egos in WOW are sickening at times to where you know they HAVE to be addicted to the game. I have a "friend".. I use that term loosely, that is like the stereotypical WoW addict. Close to 40, lives w/ his mom, terrible hygiene, and plays WoW all day... despite the fact that he seemingly hates it.. he constantly rages about changes to the game, and how Blizzard favors the Horde etc. When hos brother asked him why he still plays, even though the game makes him so mad he said "I've put so much time into these characters, I don't want it to be for nothing" Basically he plays all day long, out of some sense of responsibility to play it, as opposed to for fun.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,034
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Post by dav on May 23, 2011 6:05:36 GMT -5
FFIX. Grinding, annoying combat system with characters that weren't sympathetic or interesting in the slightest and the worst main villain of the PS1 entries into the series.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on May 23, 2011 8:02:41 GMT -5
For me it would be the Gears of War series, never unserstood the hubub about this franchise.
Sure it is quite a good fps but I can't fathom why it supposedly stands above other games of the same kind.
The single player story is fine but nothing ground breaking and bar the odd massive boss fight nothing really grabbed me.
As for the Multiplayer it seems to lack charm and the maps are all a bit too samey, Perhaps a diet of timesplitters has tailored my opinions of multiplayer fps to demand more variation.
So yeah decent enough game series but nothing to special IMO.
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Post by rapidfire187 on May 23, 2011 8:11:45 GMT -5
Well what RPG's do you like? It stands to reason that they're probably RPG's that I didn't like very much or haven't experienced yet. I can't even pin point what type of RPG's I like. My favorites are FF6 7 8 and 9, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Illusion of Gaia and Rogue Galaxy. There's been tons of RPGs that I started to play and just didn't like at all. Including Xenogears, which tons of people say is the greatest RPG on the PSX. IMO THAT is an overrated game. I didn't play FF7 for the characters, I played for the story. Sure the story is very complicated and doesn't make much sense, but it was enthralling. Though I don't see what was so unlikeable about the characters. Sure, Cloud was all mopey and whatnot but you would be too if all of your memories belonged to somebody else and you were also trying to save the world from total destruction... Maybe it's an age difference. I first experienced Final Fantasy 7 as an 11 year old. Let me just tell you, I _REALLY_ appreciate the insinuation that I'm too stupid to get how complex FF7's story is. That aside, the RPGs I like are Phantasy Star 4 (which FF7 stole so much of its superstructure from wholesale), Suikoden 1, Valkyrie Profile, Chrono Trigger, Mystic Ark. As far as Strategy RPGs : Shining Force (1, 2, Final Conflict, 3), Makai Kingdom, Arc the Lad As far as Action RPGs : Brain Lord, Crystalis, the entire Ys series, the Lufia 2 remake for DS. I love Illusion of Gaia, but don't consider it to be an RPG at all. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were too stupid to understand FF7's storyline. If anything, I was making myself look stupid. It took me TEN years to fully comprehend that story, and I've played through that entire game 3 times in my life. I had to look up a story FAQ online for it to all make sense to me. Yea, Illusion of Gaia is more of an adventure game I guess. I considered it an RPG b/c of all the dialogue and the "experience" system. For the record, it was my least favorite game that I listed. Far too easy and short. But for the most part I was right about your taste in RPGs. They differ greatly from mine. Doesn't mean the games you like are bad or overrated, but we obviously place value in different aspects of our games.
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Post by forgottensinpwf on May 23, 2011 8:12:52 GMT -5
GTA IV. I dunno, I just couldn't get into it like I could with the other ones.
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Phosphor Glow
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Is a real girl!
Posts: 19,871
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Post by Phosphor Glow on May 23, 2011 9:30:39 GMT -5
FFIX. Grinding, annoying combat system with characters that weren't sympathetic or interesting in the slightest and the worst main villain of the PS1 entries into the series. Pretty much every FF involves a fair amount of grinding, except for VIII, where it's entirely pointless.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,034
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Post by dav on May 23, 2011 9:48:34 GMT -5
FFIX. Grinding, annoying combat system with characters that weren't sympathetic or interesting in the slightest and the worst main villain of the PS1 entries into the series. Pretty much every FF involves a fair amount of grinding, except for VIII, where it's entirely pointless. FF9 was particularly annoying as it wasn't even to get strong enough to beat a boss, it was because of those bloody skill attatched to armour that you had to grind to get through and then get some better armour that you couldn't use because of the lack of skills attatched to it. FF8 and FF7's combat system was much more flexible and enjoyable for me.
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beamanhogan
Team Rocket
RIP - Macho for Hall of Fame
Posts: 867
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Post by beamanhogan on May 23, 2011 9:51:12 GMT -5
I agree with most that the GTA games and FFVII are overrated, but for different reasons than most. I have never been able to really get into the GTA games due to their terrible controls. They were bad on GTA3, they were still bad on Vice City and they were still bad on San Andreas. I cannot play a game where my biggest obstacles are the controls.
I was a huge RPG fan when FFVII came out. I already had a PS at the time (Twisted Metal is what sold the system for me) and I was excited beyond belief for when it came out. I played my way through it without stopping. When I was done, I never felt the need to play it again. There was no part of the game that I felt was worth a second play. That is why I feel it is overrated. I found the side quests to be drab. I absolutely hated the Chobo racing. I didn't find the materia system to be interesting. The characters weren't diverse enough to warrant wanting to change your party throughout the game. It was just a slightly above average RPG to me. I understand some people love it and that is great. I just don't think it is that great.
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on May 23, 2011 11:13:57 GMT -5
It is the MMO that got me into the MMOs but I like it and it hate so much at the same time. World of Warcraft introduced me to of basic concepts of massive online gaming. Eventually I saw the ugliness that comes with 12 million or so people playing a game. I probably hate about 9 million of em. That old phrase "When you work with the public you see it all." makes me think of WOW because when you play a game this big with the public you see it all. When I played some days it was like World of Scumbags. Peoples egos in WOW are sickening at times to where you know they HAVE to be addicted to the game. I have a "friend".. I use that term loosely, that is like the stereotypical WoW addict. Close to 40, lives w/ his mom, terrible hygiene, and plays WoW all day... despite the fact that he seemingly hates it.. he constantly rages about changes to the game, and how Blizzard favors the Horde etc. When hos brother asked him why he still plays, even though the game makes him so mad he said "I've put so much time into these characters, I don't want it to be for nothing" Basically he plays all day long, out of some sense of responsibility to play it, as opposed to for fun. I'll say this....as a longtime hordie for many years (Dire Maul release up to Wrath Mostly...aside from a sabattical to deal with the Belf Infestation) Anyone that claims that Blizz "favors" Horde hasn't been paying attention. If they did (A)The Barrens would have been split earlier/there would be an alternate route in the world. (B) There'd be at least 1 Ally City where you can DIE simply due to lag (The elevators in UC and TB) and the ONE dungeon that was Faction specific for so long would have had better loot. Blizz is just making up for some bad decisions early on with the horde now....it's about even over all.
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Post by Red Impact on May 23, 2011 11:52:01 GMT -5
I was a huge RPG fan when FFVII came out. I already had a PS at the time (Twisted Metal is what sold the system for me) and I was excited beyond belief for when it came out. I played my way through it without stopping. When I was done, I never felt the need to play it again. There was no part of the game that I felt was worth a second play. That is why I feel it is overrated. I found the side quests to be drab. I absolutely hated the Chobo racing. I didn't find the materia system to be interesting. The characters weren't diverse enough to warrant wanting to change your party throughout the game. It was just a slightly above average RPG to me. I understand some people love it and that is great. I just don't think it is that great. I think the lack of diversity and the materia system go hand in hand. You could set up any character to play any role in the game, and the only practical difference between them would be their limit breaks. All the characters were completely customizable, and that made almost all of them useless. That's the same thing that made 8's and 12's characters a lot less meaningful. You simply never have to use more than 3 or 4 of them.
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