Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,515
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Post by Ben Wyatt on May 13, 2006 11:43:36 GMT -5
Intresting points, but I really think claiming his back injury is fake is a bit of a stretch.
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Post by Dr. Marzvon Zombie M.D. on May 13, 2006 11:57:31 GMT -5
I think he is very talented but i didnt dig his gimmick after winning the belt in 96 it was just gay to cheer a stripper like wrestler to me. but he did have good matches no doubt. Dx was awesome and I think I am actually looking forward to the dx comeback.
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Post by 10DollarNoseBleed on May 13, 2006 13:31:38 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels still pulls out little things that some people may not totally notice or point out, but they still do damage to other wrestlers one way or another. Wrestlemania 20 for instance. Why was he in the Main Event? Why was he not helping out lower on the card? After all, he's the one who argued to keep Mick Foley out of the Wrestlemania 15 Main Event because "the Main Event should always be a one on one match." Suddenly it was OK when he wanted to be in it with his buddy, Paul. And then there was this years Wrestlemania. As soon as he pulled out the giant ladder I said, "He's up to his old tricks again." Did you notice how the ladder was big enough so that he looked that much better than every single one of the participants in the Money in the Bank match? He just couldn't let any of them outshine him. With one move he very slyly buried 6 guys on the undercard. If you think he didn't realize that, you're nuts. After 20 years in this business, he knew exactly what he was doing. I could go on and on. Shawn Michaels hasn't changed, he's just gotten smarter about the way he goes about being a prick. Quoted for truth. Shawn is still the whiny prick he always was. He has NOT changed.
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Post by MichaelMartini on May 13, 2006 15:10:22 GMT -5
I never heard that. I remember watching raw when they were starting the fued. Asutin was looking for Eddie in some cantina or vice versa but they cut it short cause Austin was having some real life issues with Debra and he dissappeared from TV. Those real life issues probably included hitting his wife and he disapeared from the TV screen because he didnt want to do the feud with Eddie. Wrestlers, including Austin have stayed working through "hard times". If Steve was in a programe with the WWE champion or in the main event slot he wouldn't have gone. As it was he was being used in the midcard against a midcarder so he walked. Austin even says himself now that he was an ass back then because of 'personal issues' though I wonder just how much of his career woes of recent years he blames on his personal problems as a quick excuse. Not forgetting that his personal problems were all self induced I thought I saw an interview with Austin and he said he wanted to work with Eddie. Maybe it was a retrospective thing or maybe I'm going senile.
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Post by chrisplettuce on May 13, 2006 16:00:47 GMT -5
Those real life issues probably included hitting his wife and he disapeared from the TV screen because he didnt want to do the feud with Eddie. Wrestlers, including Austin have stayed working through "hard times". If Steve was in a programe with the WWE champion or in the main event slot he wouldn't have gone. As it was he was being used in the midcard against a midcarder so he walked. Austin even says himself now that he was an ass back then because of 'personal issues' though I wonder just how much of his career woes of recent years he blames on his personal problems as a quick excuse. Not forgetting that his personal problems were all self induced I thought I saw an interview with Austin and he said he wanted to work with Eddie. Maybe it was a retrospective thing or maybe I'm going senile. I remember it as well, I remember something like he personally hand picked him to feud with. I'm not sure where it was from but I remember being psyched about it.
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Post by The son of a plumber. on May 13, 2006 16:15:16 GMT -5
Bret Passed the Touch when he Dropped the belt to HBK at Wrestlemania 12. Montreal had nothing to do with him want to hold on his fame any longer or hodl down young wrestlers
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erik316wttn
Samurai Cop
Wrestlecrap's #1 SUNNY mark
Posts: 2,490
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Post by erik316wttn on May 13, 2006 17:11:38 GMT -5
I don't think the IWC would have been happy with anything that happened in that HBK/Hogan match.
Hogan won. People claim he used his "backstage stroke."
If HBK won, people would have claimed he used his "backstage stroke."
What did you people want? A double DQ in a main event at the 2nd biggest ppv of the year? In case you forgot, WCW isn't around anymore.
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Post by rrm15 on May 13, 2006 17:58:07 GMT -5
I thought I saw an interview with Austin and he said he wanted to work with Eddie. Maybe it was a retrospective thing or maybe I'm going senile. I remember it as well, I remember something like he personally hand picked him to feud with. I'm not sure where it was from but I remember being psyched about it. Yeah, he hand-picked Eddie to feud with because he was on a kick of only wanting to work with good workers, and he felt Eddie wasthe best on the roster. For the record, I don't think HBK is holding anyone down like he used to. RAW doesn't have very many faces right now, and lets face it, they kind of need him. The worst thing hes done in recent years was probably the "burial" of Hogan, but at this stage in his career Hogan's reputation isn't going anywhere.
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Post by aquaman on May 13, 2006 18:11:34 GMT -5
Austin never had the chance to put over new guys. He put over Rock, HHH, Angle, Jericho and was willing to elevate Eddie, Brock, Benoit, etc but due to injury/personal problems/bad booking never had the chance. It was Austin himself who vetoed any feud with Eddie who was rehired specifically to feud with Austin. Umm wasn't it Austin's idea to feud with Eddie?
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 13, 2006 21:14:47 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels still pulls out little things that some people may not totally notice or point out, but they still do damage to other wrestlers one way or another. Wrestlemania 20 for instance. Why was he in the Main Event? Why was he not helping out lower on the card? After all, he's the one who argued to keep Mick Foley out of the Wrestlemania 15 Main Event because "the Main Event should always be a one on one match." Suddenly it was OK when he wanted to be in it with his buddy, Paul. And then there was this years Wrestlemania. As soon as he pulled out the giant ladder I said, "He's up to his old tricks again." Did you notice how the ladder was big enough so that he looked that much better than every single one of the participants in the Money in the Bank match? He just couldn't let any of them outshine him. With one move he very slyly buried 6 guys on the undercard. If you think he didn't realize that, you're nuts. After 20 years in this business, he knew exactly what he was doing. I could go on and on. Shawn Michaels hasn't changed, he's just gotten smarter about the way he goes about being a prick. I am sorry but how many people who don't follow wrestling (the people Vince wants to buy WM) know who the hell Chris Benoit is? Nowhere near as many who know who Shawn Michaels is (granted that is still a small number). Wrestlemania is the biggest (live event) money maker for WWE. If the PPV doesn't have any crossover appeal then ALL WRESTLERS lose money as the payoff isn't nearly as big. As for WM22. Heaven forbid wanting to put on the best match possible on the biggest show of the year. Did you ever consider his opponent for the match? Maybe the OWNER OF THE COMPANY wanted to his match to outshine everyone else's. But, as always let blind hatred rule your judgment. It's Shawn's fault Montreal happened. It's Shawn's fault (insert wrestler) never got over. It's Shawn's fault that (______________) never got the title. It's Vince's company. He has the final say. Can he be influenced? Yes, but the man is not stupid. If he feels it's not good for business he doesn't do it. But of course people can't change. Drunks are always drunks, they never go sober. Smokers always smoke. People can't lose weight and attitudes never change. The fact is the people with blind hatred for Shawn will never give let their perception of him change. He will always be '96 Shawn Michaels, the man who made Vince's life a living hell, the man with a drug problem, and the man who blew off doing charity work. They will never see Shawn Michaels of 06, the man with a wife and two kids, the devout Christian, and the man who done countless hours for charity.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,515
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Post by Ben Wyatt on May 13, 2006 21:41:07 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels still pulls out little things that some people may not totally notice or point out, but they still do damage to other wrestlers one way or another. Wrestlemania 20 for instance. Why was he in the Main Event? Why was he not helping out lower on the card? After all, he's the one who argued to keep Mick Foley out of the Wrestlemania 15 Main Event because "the Main Event should always be a one on one match." Suddenly it was OK when he wanted to be in it with his buddy, Paul. And then there was this years Wrestlemania. As soon as he pulled out the giant ladder I said, "He's up to his old tricks again." Did you notice how the ladder was big enough so that he looked that much better than every single one of the participants in the Money in the Bank match? He just couldn't let any of them outshine him. With one move he very slyly buried 6 guys on the undercard. If you think he didn't realize that, you're nuts. After 20 years in this business, he knew exactly what he was doing. I could go on and on. Shawn Michaels hasn't changed, he's just gotten smarter about the way he goes about being a prick. I am sorry but how many people who don't follow wrestling (the people Vince wants to buy WM) know who the hell Chris Benoit is? Nowhere near as many who know who Shawn Michaels is (granted that is still a small number). Wrestlemania is the biggest (live event) money maker for WWE. If the PPV doesn't have any crossover appeal then ALL WRESTLERS lose money as the payoff isn't nearly as big. As for WM22. Heaven forbid wanting to put on the best match possible on the biggest show of the year. Did you ever consider his opponent for the match? Maybe the OWNER OF THE COMPANY wanted to his match to outshine everyone else's. But, as always let blind hatred rule your judgment. It's Shawn's fault Montreal happened. It's Shawn's fault (insert wrestler) never got over. It's Shawn's fault that (______________) never got the title. It's Vince's company. He has the final say. Can he be influenced? Yes, but the man is not stupid. If he feels it's not good for business he doesn't do it. But of course people can't change. Drunks are always drunks, they never go sober. Smokers always smoke. People can't lose weight and attitudes never change. The fact is the people with blind hatred for Shawn will never give let their perception of him change. He will always be '96 Shawn Michaels, the man who made Vince's life a living hell, the man with a drug problem, and the man who blew off doing charity work. They will never see Shawn Michaels of 06, the man with a wife and two kids, the devout Christian, and the man who done countless hours for charity. Very well put
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on May 13, 2006 22:10:34 GMT -5
I'm sure HBK has changed a bit, but I guess old habits die hard, or just linger.
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Post by T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens on May 13, 2006 22:37:03 GMT -5
I still haven't seen how everyone thinks Shawn Michaels has changed. In fact I think the HBK of '06 is more dangerous, far smarter, and WAY more vindictive than the HBK of '96.
Regardless of whether he has changed or not, I'm not a secular progressive. I don't know anybody that's not judged by their past transgressions. Nor do I think they shouldn't be. Everyone's judged by the things they've done in the past. Why should Shawn Michaels not be?
And you're giving Shawn Michaels WAY to much credit when you say "alot more people who are not Wrestling fans know who Shawn Michaels is than know who Chris Benoit is." I don't think ANYBODY who is not a wrestling fan knows who EITHER of them are. Shawn's never ever been a crossover star. His name in the Main Event at Wresltemania XX did not add any more buys. It was just an excuse for him and Triple H to suck each other's pricks. And now DX is coming back. Looks like nothing changes.
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Post by Magneto on May 13, 2006 23:55:34 GMT -5
His point lost value when he made the idle untrue statement about Bret in his rundown. Bret wanted to stay with the WWF, Vince wanted Austin to be the top star, so he told Bret it would be best if they cancel the proposed 20 year deal and he went to WCW, and the rest is history. Vince, out of supposed fear of Bret showing up on WCW with the WWF title, screwed Bret Hart over and only made his legend bigger. Shawn Michaels was one of the leading cowards in that whole affair. Whatever criticism Michaels' has gotten over the years, it was well deserved and probably understated if anything. The asskissing of Shawn Michaels by fans who believe him to be some "good" performer has always been comedy relief.
Great. My 3,000th post was about Shawn Michaels. How disturbing but answer me this Michaels' fans: When is Shawn gonna put over the likes of Benjamin, Carlito, or someone else that has a longer shelf life than those he jobs to today?
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on May 13, 2006 23:57:23 GMT -5
I still haven't seen how everyone thinks Shawn Michaels has changed. In fact I think the HBK of '06 is more dangerous, far smarter, and WAY more vindictive than the HBK of '96. Regardless of whether he has changed or not, I'm not a secular progressive. I don't know anybody that's not judged by their past transgressions. Nor do I think they shouldn't be. Everyone's judged by the things they've done in the past. Why should Shawn Michaels not be? And you're giving Shawn Michaels WAY to much credit when you say "alot more people who are not Wrestling fans know who Shawn Michaels is than know who Chris Benoit is." I don't think ANYBODY who is not a wrestling fan knows who EITHER of them are. Shawn's never ever been a crossover star. His name in the Main Event at Wresltemania XX did not add any more buys. It was just an excuse for him and Triple H to suck each other's pricks. And now DX is coming back. Looks like nothing changes. That's true there, HBK and Benoit are great in the ring, however not many people know of them unless you're a wrestling fan as they didn't impact wrestling like Rock, Hogan, Austin did.
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Post by royboy8 on May 14, 2006 0:29:01 GMT -5
His point lost value when he made the idle untrue statement about Bret in his rundown. Bret wanted to stay with the WWF, Vince wanted Austin to be the top star, so he told Bret it would be best if they cancel the proposed 20 year deal and he went to WCW, and the rest is history. Vince, out of supposed fear of Bret showing up on WCW with the WWF title, screwed Bret Hart over and only made his legend bigger. Shawn Michaels was one of the leading cowards in that whole affair. Whatever criticism Michaels' has gotten over the years, it was well deserved and probably understated if anything. The asskissing of Shawn Michaels by fans who believe him to be some "good" performer has always been comedy relief. Great. My 3,000th post was about Shawn Michaels. How disturbing but answer me this Michaels' fans: When is Shawn gonna put over the likes of Benjamin, Carlito, or someone else that has a longer shelf life than those he jobs to today? Great, turning into another HBK-Bret Hart Montreal Screwjob debate. Well, I might as well pull out the old VHS and watch the event now, TRUTH COMMISION here I come!
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 14, 2006 0:29:06 GMT -5
I And you're giving Shawn Michaels WAY to much credit when you say "alot more people who are not Wrestling fans know who Shawn Michaels is than know who Chris Benoit is." I don't think ANYBODY who is not a wrestling fan knows who EITHER of them are. Shawn's never ever been a crossover star. His name in the Main Event at Wresltemania XX did not add any more buys. Actually, my exact quote was... I never said "a lot more", I said a few. And while Benoit was being held down in WCW. Michaels' was having a public workout in NYC with Mike Tyson and, that received more mainstream play than anything Benoit has done. Michaels has had more crossover success (again very little) than Benoit. As for I am not saying Shawn should not be judged by his past but to only judge by the past the shortsighted. If you only judge people by their past then nobody should be respected or trusted seeing as everyone has lied stolen something or, used their position/ability to get what they want (no matter how insignificant). If you cant see what is going on now then why bother living. Yes, lets blame Shawn and now Hunter for a business decision made my Vince. God forbid Vince do something to pop the ratings and buy rates since nothing else has worked. MAGNETO: I would love to see an extended Michaels/Benjamin feud Their match in the Gold Rush tourney (I believe) was amazing for Raw and I would love to see what they could do on a PPV with more time but, I don't see that happening until Shelton is seen as more of a World Champion contender than IC Champ. I know Michaels could help get him to this level but, I don't think Vince will let it happen until Vince sees that. But that goes for any big name who is on Vince's good side (Hogan, Flair, HHH, HBK and Kurt). He wont let them put over anyone he doesn't believe in or see selling millions in merchandise.
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Post by royboy8 on May 14, 2006 0:32:43 GMT -5
I still haven't seen how everyone thinks Shawn Michaels has changed. In fact I think the HBK of '06 is more dangerous, far smarter, and WAY more vindictive than the HBK of '96. Regardless of whether he has changed or not, I'm not a secular progressive. I don't know anybody that's not judged by their past transgressions. Nor do I think they shouldn't be. Everyone's judged by the things they've done in the past. Why should Shawn Michaels not be? And you're giving Shawn Michaels WAY to much credit when you say "alot more people who are not Wrestling fans know who Shawn Michaels is than know who Chris Benoit is." I don't think ANYBODY who is not a wrestling fan knows who EITHER of them are. Shawn's never ever been a crossover star. His name in the Main Event at Wresltemania XX did not add any more buys. It was just an excuse for him and Triple H to suck each other's pricks. And now DX is coming back. Looks like nothing changes. A lot of people indirectly know who HBK is that arent wrestling fans. Since he started the SUCK IT thing, everyone who was anyone in the late 90's knew about that saying and usually said it(everyone in my high school and area anyway). HBK helped bring a lot of people in to watch wrestling by starting DX, and along with the NWO, Austin and the Rock, helped bring in a completly new era of wrestling that set records and made ungodly amounts of money.
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Post by Magneto on May 14, 2006 0:48:42 GMT -5
I MAGNETO: I would love to see an extended Michaels/Benjamin feud Their match in the Gold Rush tourney (I believe) was amazing for Raw and I would love to see what they could do on a PPV with more time but, I don't see that happening until Shelton is seen as more of a World Champion contender than IC Champ. I know Michaels could help get him to this level but, I don't think Vince will let it happen until Vince sees that. But that goes for any big name who is on Vince's good side (Hogan, Flair, HHH, HBK and Kurt). He wont let them put over anyone he doesn't believe in or see selling millions in merchandise. How tragic to hear. Oh well...you can't expect every so called maineventer to be like the Rock and make stars for the pure hell of making things more watchable and better. That's just asking too much these days. No wonder I have no interest in worthless Micahaels/Vince or Michaels/Spirit Squad fueds.
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Post by The Jeebus on May 14, 2006 7:25:51 GMT -5
I MAGNETO: I would love to see an extended Michaels/Benjamin feud Their match in the Gold Rush tourney (I believe) was amazing for Raw and I would love to see what they could do on a PPV with more time but, I don't see that happening until Shelton is seen as more of a World Champion contender than IC Champ. I know Michaels could help get him to this level but, I don't think Vince will let it happen until Vince sees that. But that goes for any big name who is on Vince's good side (Hogan, Flair, HHH, HBK and Kurt). He wont let them put over anyone he doesn't believe in or see selling millions in merchandise. How tragic to hear. Oh well...you can't expect every so called maineventer to be like the Rock and make stars for the pure hell of making things more watchable and better. That's just asking too much these days. No wonder I have no interest in worthless Micahaels/Vince or Michaels/Spirit Squad fueds. The Rock only made stars before he went off to make movies. Oh, and he completely outshined Goldberg upon his debut in WWE.
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