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Post by westendriot on May 14, 2006 7:31:28 GMT -5
God, do people never tire of HBK/Bret discussions? Christ almighty.
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Post by angryfan on May 14, 2006 7:33:47 GMT -5
*checks magic 8-ball (not the toy, a large amount of drugs given to me bya witch)* Sources point to no.
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Post by hbk619 - QUACK! on May 14, 2006 8:46:58 GMT -5
I love shawn and i still agree.
People dont just change.
As someone said, old habits die hard.
A small point about the WM22 match: the only way it could be entertaining, was to go over-the-top. Its not like vince is a wrestler. Same with hogan. If Vince/HBK had trieed a straight chain-wrestling match it probably woulda been crap.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,515
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Post by Ben Wyatt on May 14, 2006 9:32:23 GMT -5
How tragic to hear. Oh well...you can't expect every so called maineventer to be like the Rock and make stars for the pure hell of making things more watchable and better. That's just asking too much these days. No wonder I have no interest in worthless Micahaels/Vince or Michaels/Spirit Squad fueds. The Rock only made stars before he went off to make movies. Oh, and he completely outshined Goldberg upon his debut in WWE. Quoted for absolute f-ing truth.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on May 14, 2006 10:49:22 GMT -5
God, do people never tire of HBK/Bret discussions? Christ almighty. Apparently not, as if there is a thread saying "For all you Bret Haters" then the HBK fans would come out, and vice versa. It's always going to be like that it seems, can't be helped. Granted, HBK isn't the huge prick he was in 95-96, but little things come out every now and then (Raw after Summerslam bitchfest).
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Post by westendriot on May 14, 2006 11:11:47 GMT -5
I loved his promo after SummerSlam. He was still a heel and I loved it.
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Post by tardis99 on May 14, 2006 13:21:34 GMT -5
I loved his promo after SummerSlam. He was still a heel and I loved it. What? He wasn't a heel at all. That promo basically was "love me again" promo. How the hell does that qualify as a heel?
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Post by zen444 on May 14, 2006 13:26:16 GMT -5
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Post by westendriot on May 14, 2006 13:42:50 GMT -5
I loved his promo after SummerSlam. He was still a heel and I loved it. What? He wasn't a heel at all. That promo basically was "love me again" promo. How the hell does that qualify as a heel? No, he was ripping on Hogan and people booed him, I'd say that's a heel. He only became face again because Masters came out.
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Post by hbk619 - QUACK! on May 14, 2006 14:33:57 GMT -5
Anyone got a link to that promo?
I cant remember it
And amazing how people (bar one poster) only has ONE example from 4 years of comeback of him being an ass
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Post by MichaelMartini on May 14, 2006 14:39:52 GMT -5
I I would love to see what they could do on a PPV with more time but, I don't see that happening until Shelton is seen as more of a World Champion contender than IC Champ. I know Michaels could help get him to this level but, I don't think Vince will let it happen until Vince sees that. How else can Shelton do that unless guys like HBK help put him over? Shelton's been in the WWE awhile now. He's already been a tag and IC champ. He's beat HHH three times in a row, clean. He stole the show at Wrestlemania 22, he's had 2 awesome matches with Micheals. Now is the time to be turning him into a world contender. I would've rather seen Shelton take on HBK (and win) at Mania than HBK's stupid ladder spot.
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 14, 2006 15:46:10 GMT -5
I I would love to see what they could do on a PPV with more time but, I don't see that happening until Shelton is seen as more of a World Champion contender than IC Champ. I know Michaels could help get him to this level but, I don't think Vince will let it happen until Vince sees that. How else can Shelton do that unless guys like HBK help put him over? Shelton's been in the WWE awhile now. He's already been a tag and IC champ. He's beat HHH three times in a row, clean. He stole the show at Wrestlemania 22, he's had 2 awesome matches with Micheals. Now is the time to be turning him into a world contender. I would've rather seen Shelton take on HBK (and win) at Mania than HBK's stupid ladder spot. Vince has to believe and creative has to be that, creative. Like I said, unless Vince sees dollar signs when he looks at you, he is not going to let those that he likes (or those that suck up to him as some would put it) look bad or lose. Shawn and Shelton had an incredible match where both looked amazing but, Vince and creative just don't see Shelton as World Champ material yet, due to their own stupidity. Simply put, if Vince doesn't think you can sell millions in merchandise than Vince doesn't care about you.
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Post by tardis99 on May 14, 2006 15:51:32 GMT -5
How else can Shelton do that unless guys like HBK help put him over? Shelton's been in the WWE awhile now. He's already been a tag and IC champ. He's beat HHH three times in a row, clean. He stole the show at Wrestlemania 22, he's had 2 awesome matches with Micheals. Now is the time to be turning him into a world contender. I would've rather seen Shelton take on HBK (and win) at Mania than HBK's stupid ladder spot. Vince has to believe and creative has to be that, creative. Like I said, unless Vince sees dollar signs when he looks at you, he is not going to let those that he likes (or those that suck up to him as some would put it) look bad or lose. Shawn and Shelton had an incredible match where both looked amazing but, Vince and creative just don't see Shelton as World Champ material yet, due to their own stupidity. Simply put, if Vince doesn't think you can sell millions in merchandise than Vince doesn't care about you. No I think Vince just accepts that some people can never be main eventers. Doesn't mean he doesn't care. I really think peoples impression of Vince is that he's like his on-screen personality. He doesn't just turn up midway through a TV show. He more likely knows and is the driving force behind the vast majority of stuff that everyone on the shows do. But some would have it so everyone if they get pops would automatically pushed to the main event. Shelton isn't in the main event because he isn't good enough. Benoit could put on good matches but he SUCKED as champion. Some people just arent meant to main event. Being in the midcard isn't anything to be ahsamed of. Just because someone is a successful midcarder doesn't mean creative or Vince doesn't care about them because if nobody cared about Shelton he wouldnt be on TV each week. It just means that they're better suited to the undercard and on Shelton I agree with that
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 14, 2006 16:15:55 GMT -5
Vince has to believe and creative has to be that, creative. Like I said, unless Vince sees dollar signs when he looks at you, he is not going to let those that he likes (or those that suck up to him as some would put it) look bad or lose. Shawn and Shelton had an incredible match where both looked amazing but, Vince and creative just don't see Shelton as World Champ material yet, due to their own stupidity. Simply put, if Vince doesn't think you can sell millions in merchandise than Vince doesn't care about you. No I think Vince just accepts that some people can never be main eventers. Doesn't mean he doesn't care. I really think peoples impression of Vince is that he's like his on-screen personality. He doesn't just turn up midway through a TV show. He more likely knows and is the driving force behind the vast majority of stuff that everyone on the shows do. But some would have it so everyone if they get pops would automatically pushed to the main event. Shelton isn't in the main event because he isn't good enough. Benoit could put on good matches but he SUCKED as champion. Some people just arent meant to main event. Being in the midcard isn't anything to be ahsamed of. Just because someone is a successful midcarder doesn't mean creative or Vince doesn't care about them because if nobody cared about Shelton he wouldnt be on TV each week. It just means that they're better suited to the undercard and on Shelton I agree with that I agree, "Doesn't Care" is harsh but, I still stand by that if you can't sell millions in merchandise that you'll never sniff a world title run (especially after Benoit's run. It wasn't Chris' fault but talent alone wont get you there anymore). Hell, I'd kill to be a staple of the mid-card and have a main event on Raw once in a while. Jake Roberts is the perfect example of that. If you were good enough to work with him then you were good enough to work Hogan (or something to that effect).
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Post by royboy8 on May 14, 2006 16:33:27 GMT -5
Shelton will be in the main event some day, just like HBK is now who waited years before being in the main event. Both of them started off as parts of solid tag teams, went to the ic division then, then Shawn went on to win world titles. Shelton will do the same. I t's the way things should be done in the E. Not being hotshoted to the world title without paying any dues.
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Post by MichaelMartini on May 14, 2006 17:19:46 GMT -5
Shelton isn't in the main event because he isn't good enough. Benoit could put on good matches but he SUCKED as champion. Gimme a break. They never gave Benoit a chance. He had one succesful title defense (aside from the rematch) against Kane and then lost it to rest hold Randy. Now there's a guy that sucked as champ. It's not Benoit's fault creative didn't give him anything to do. How bout a storyline? They did nothing with him. Look at how many chances Cena is getting. He's been booed for months. Was Benoit ever booed while he was champ?
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Post by tardis99 on May 14, 2006 17:25:55 GMT -5
It's not about being booed. It's tiresome really just how many times smarks-favourites have been made World Champion, done nothing with it and all the old excuses come out of the woodwork. It's always creative or the opponents or the city or the air or he had the wrong shoes...it's always something.
Guys draw on their own if they are good enough. Batista can draw on his own, why couldn't Benoit? Some people just aren't made to be champions.
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Post by T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens on May 14, 2006 17:41:18 GMT -5
It's not about being booed. It's tiresome really just how many times smarks-favourites have been made World Champion, done nothing with it and all the old excuses come out of the woodwork. It's always creative or the opponents or the city or the air or he had the wrong shoes...it's always something. Guys draw on their own if they are good enough. Batista can draw on his own, why couldn't Benoit? Some people just aren't made to be champions. OK. So when Shawn Michaels gets away with being a bastard, it's not his fault because the company allows him to do it (The "Vince has the final say/HBK has no control" arguement). But when Benoit is not thrown a single bone from the company as champion, it's his fault and not the company's. We can't have it both ways people.
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Post by tardis99 on May 14, 2006 17:47:41 GMT -5
It's not about being booed. It's tiresome really just how many times smarks-favourites have been made World Champion, done nothing with it and all the old excuses come out of the woodwork. It's always creative or the opponents or the city or the air or he had the wrong shoes...it's always something. Guys draw on their own if they are good enough. Batista can draw on his own, why couldn't Benoit? Some people just aren't made to be champions. OK. So when Shawn Michaels gets away with being a bastard, it's not his fault because the company allows him to do it (The "Vince has the final say/HBK has no control" arguement). But when Benoit is not thrown a single bone from the company as champion, it's his fault and not the company's. We can't have it both ways people. With any title run it's the job of the wrestler to get himself over and the job of creative to keep him over. There hasn't been a single wrestler in the history of the sport who's been dealt four aces by creative. Not one. They've all had sucky feuds, rubbish storylines but the cream always rises to the top. It just seems that every time someone doesnt get over it's blamed entirely on creative when it's always a combination of things.
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Post by T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens on May 14, 2006 18:02:36 GMT -5
I understand what you're trying to get across, and I'll debate it below, but could someone please explain the contradiction that I pointed out above.
I never saw the company any more determined to make sure a wrestler looks good than they did for Shawn. So don't tell me they've treated everyone the same. They were putting Shawn in Main Events while the Champion was wrestling a newcomer named the Patriot on PPV. How is a champion supposed to get over when the company is promoting someone else and throwing him a boring newcomer? Give me a break. You can't tell me that Shawn Michaels was not thrown in our faces durring his '95-'96 run. The company bent over backwards more than I've ever seen before.
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