Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,515
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on May 16, 2006 19:43:23 GMT -5
Over the past 25 years you could probably easily name 25 better draws than HBK, if not more. Ill call your bluff. Name 25 "easy" ones for me
|
|
|
Post by tardis99 on May 16, 2006 19:52:41 GMT -5
Hogan, Andre, Flair, Sting, Warrior, Piper, Andre, Austin, Rock, Angle, HHH, Batista, Bret, McMahon, Orndorf, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Savage, Undertaker, Jericho, Foley, Graham, Guerrero, Kamala, Backlund
26
|
|
|
Post by Magneto on May 16, 2006 19:55:58 GMT -5
What most people? A few IWC pundits that think Shawn Michaels is the "Be all and Endl all" of wrestling? Yeah right. Correct me if I'm wrong but that PPV was NOT a high seller on the DVD racks of any major company or distributor and the buyrates was pretty horrible.
|
|
|
Post by westendriot on May 16, 2006 19:57:48 GMT -5
There are fans outside this forum you know. The "IWC" make up what, 5-10% of WWEs audience?
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,515
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on May 16, 2006 20:25:32 GMT -5
Hogan, Andre, Flair, Sting, Warrior, Piper, Andre, Austin, Rock, Angle, HHH, Batista, Bret, McMahon, Orndorf, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Savage, Undertaker, Jericho, Foley, Graham, Guerrero, Kamala, Backlund 26 You have to be joking on some of those.... Kamala was a bigger draw than Michaels? Orndorff?? McMahon? Backlund? Hall? Nash? Batista? Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, Andre are easily bigger draws than Michaels. IMO, He's level with the rest
|
|
|
Post by tardis99 on May 16, 2006 20:29:22 GMT -5
Hogan, Andre, Flair, Sting, Warrior, Piper, Andre, Austin, Rock, Angle, HHH, Batista, Bret, McMahon, Orndorf, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Savage, Undertaker, Jericho, Foley, Graham, Guerrero, Kamala, Backlund 26 You have to be joking on some of those.... Kamala was a bigger draw than Michaels? Orndorff?? McMahon? Backlund? Hall? Nash? Batista? Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, Andre are easily bigger draws than Michaels. IMO, He's level with the rest Kamala, Orndorf and Backlund were all performing to house shows in excess of 20k in the early 80's indeed Kamala and Orndorf were main event players on the WWF circuit in the peak of the boom period 86/87 Hall and Nash were scoring bigger ratings on Nitro same time HBK was the main attraction on Raw. Vince McMahon was part of the greatest feud in the industry this side of Hogan Vs Andre Batista I'll admit hasn't the strongest case but more people watch him each week than watched Shawn Michaels at his peak.
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,515
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on May 16, 2006 20:31:07 GMT -5
What most people? A few IWC pundits that think Shawn Michaels is the "Be all and Endl all" of wrestling? Yeah right. Correct me if I'm wrong but that PPV was NOT a high seller on the DVD racks of any major company or distributor and the buyrates was pretty horrible. So, of course it was ALL HBK/HHH that made that a "bad seller"? Chris Benoit & Edge b La Resistance by DQ -Tag titles- Chris Jericho b Tyson Tomko w/Trish Stratus Randy Orton b Shelton Benjamin -IC title- Trish b Victoria & Gail Kim & Lita -Womans title- Eugene Dinsmore b The Coach Chris Benoit b Kane -World title- Triple H vs Shawn Michaels -Hell in a Cell- That's your line-up.... I know I would love to shell out $35 for the PPV or buy a $25 DVD feauturing Eugene vs Coach, an epic womans tag match, Jerhico vs Tomko and a horribly predictable title match.
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,515
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on May 16, 2006 20:36:28 GMT -5
You have to be joking on some of those.... Kamala was a bigger draw than Michaels? Orndorff?? McMahon? Backlund? Hall? Nash? Batista? Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, Andre are easily bigger draws than Michaels. IMO, He's level with the rest Kamala, Orndorf and Backlund were all performing to house shows in excess of 20k in the early 80's indeed Kamala and Orndorf were main event players on the WWF circuit in the peak of the boom period 86/87 Hall and Nash were scoring bigger ratings on Nitro same time HBK was the main attraction on Raw. Vince McMahon was part of the greatest feud in the industry this side of Hogan Vs Andre Batista I'll admit hasn't the strongest case but more people watch him each week than watched Shawn Michaels at his peak. Yes, but Vince wasnt the draw, AUSTIN was. I dont forsee anyone waiting in line for tickets saying to themselves "Man, I REALLY hope Vince is there"
|
|
|
Post by tardis99 on May 16, 2006 20:39:14 GMT -5
Kamala, Orndorf and Backlund were all performing to house shows in excess of 20k in the early 80's indeed Kamala and Orndorf were main event players on the WWF circuit in the peak of the boom period 86/87 Hall and Nash were scoring bigger ratings on Nitro same time HBK was the main attraction on Raw. Vince McMahon was part of the greatest feud in the industry this side of Hogan Vs Andre Batista I'll admit hasn't the strongest case but more people watch him each week than watched Shawn Michaels at his peak. Yes, but Vince wasnt the draw, AUSTIN was. I dont forsee anyone waiting in line for tickets saying to themselves "Man, I REALLY hope Vince is there" No the feud was the draw too. You could really narrow the list down to three if we're going by the "ultimate" draw. No doubt Austin was the main draw but an Austin Vs HBK feud certainly wouldnt have drawn as much of the Vince Vs Austin feud did for a plethora of reasons
|
|
Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
|
Post by Hiroshi Hase on May 16, 2006 20:39:41 GMT -5
Kamala, Orndorf and Backlund were all performing to house shows in excess of 20k in the early 80's indeed Kamala and Orndorf were main event players on the WWF circuit in the peak of the boom period 86/87 Hall and Nash were scoring bigger ratings on Nitro same time HBK was the main attraction on Raw. Vince McMahon was part of the greatest feud in the industry this side of Hogan Vs Andre Batista I'll admit hasn't the strongest case but more people watch him each week than watched Shawn Michaels at his peak. Yes, but Vince wasnt the draw, AUSTIN was. I dont forsee anyone waiting in line for tickets saying to themselves "Man, I REALLY hope Vince is there" Probably not, but I think they were probably saying "I hope Vince is here so Austin can kick his ass". As for HBK he's good, but it's not like the guy was a huge draw or anything. And I do agree with Tardis at least with most of the guys he named such as Hall, Nash, Hogan, Flair, Sting and Bret.
|
|
|
Post by samson on May 16, 2006 20:41:08 GMT -5
"The key to a great good guy is having a really great bad guy" - Bret Hart, 1997.
If you think people paid to see Austin and not Vince, I dare anyone to list five feuds involving Austin that were BIGGER or MORE entertaining than his war with Vince. Sure, his feuds with Rock and Hart were huge...but not on the scale of his war with Vince.
People didn't come to just see Austin kick some ass, they came specifically to see him kick MCMAHON's ass. Give the devil his due.
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,515
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on May 16, 2006 20:42:56 GMT -5
"The key to a great good guy is having a really great bad guy" - Bret Hart, 1997. If you think people paid to see Austin and not Vince, I dare anyone to list five feuds involving Austin that were BIGGER or MORE entertaining than his war with Vince. Sure, his feuds with Rock and Hart were huge...but not on the scale of his war with Vince. People didn't come to just see Austin kick some ass, they came specifically to see him kick MCMAHON's ass. Give the devil his due. Ok, Ill conceede the Vince thing on the Austin feud. But if you're talking overall, (as in Vince > HBK in drawing power) then thats another story
|
|
|
Post by tardis99 on May 16, 2006 20:43:06 GMT -5
I think Austin relied on the McMahon feud to propel him to the next level more heavily than perhaps any other main eventer has relied on a single feud to get them to the top
|
|
|
Post by luciferreigns on May 16, 2006 21:53:31 GMT -5
Five feuds Austin had that were BIGGER or MORE entertaining than his war with Vince:
1)The Rock 2)HBK 3)Bret Hart 4)Brian Pillman 5)Mike Tyson
He also worked with The Brooklyn Brawler- Steve Lombardi , Vader plus other mid carders.
|
|
Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
|
Post by Hiroshi Hase on May 16, 2006 21:56:12 GMT -5
Five feuds Austin had that were BIGGER or MORE entertaining than his war with Vince: 1)The Rock 2)HBK 3)Bret Hart 4)Brian Pillman 5)Mike Tyson He also worked with The Brooklyn Brawler- Steve Lombardi , Vader plus other mid carders. I'll probably agree with 1 and 3, as for HBK/Pillman, both lasted a short time and most people probably don't remember it. As for Tyson, it was more buildup than anything.
|
|
|
Post by tardis99 on May 16, 2006 22:17:57 GMT -5
The whole backbone of the Austin character was its rebellion against authority. It would not have got that without the McMahon feud
|
|
|
Post by jamofpearls on May 16, 2006 22:22:39 GMT -5
I also want to add something on the whole, "HBK hasn't changed. Look at his actions at Summerslam against Hogan". How many who quit drinking stumble and have a drink? How many smokers who quit, have a moment of weakness and smoke a cigarette? How many people on a diet cheat? People who make MAJOR changes in there lives, sometimes slip up. To base your beliefs on whether or not someone has changed on one moment has their own problems to solve. I quit smoking in april of 2005 and haven't so much as touched a cig since then. go will power
|
|
|
Post by Magneto on May 16, 2006 22:24:01 GMT -5
Hogan, Andre, Flair, Sting, Warrior, Piper, Andre, Austin, Rock, Angle, HHH, Batista, Bret, McMahon, Orndorf, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Savage, Undertaker, Jericho, Foley, Graham, Guerrero, Kamala, Backlund 26 You have to be joking on some of those.... Kamala was a bigger draw than Michaels? Orndorff?? McMahon? Backlund? Hall? Nash? Batista? Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, Andre are easily bigger draws than Michaels. IMO, He's level with the rest McMahon was part of the Austin show. Orndorff was part of the Hogan show. Backland was a small draw but bigger than Shawn easily. Hall and Nash were the FOUNDERS of the NwO and were responsible for the greatest ratings and buyrates in WCW history. Batista? Easily outdrawn Shawn as Champ.
|
|
|
Post by Magneto on May 16, 2006 22:25:59 GMT -5
What most people? A few IWC pundits that think Shawn Michaels is the "Be all and Endl all" of wrestling? Yeah right. Correct me if I'm wrong but that PPV was NOT a high seller on the DVD racks of any major company or distributor and the buyrates was pretty horrible. So, of course it was ALL HBK/HHH that made that a "bad seller"? Chris Benoit & Edge b La Resistance by DQ -Tag titles- Chris Jericho b Tyson Tomko w/Trish Stratus Randy Orton b Shelton Benjamin -IC title- Trish b Victoria & Gail Kim & Lita -Womans title- Eugene Dinsmore b The Coach Chris Benoit b Kane -World title- Triple H vs Shawn Michaels -Hell in a Cell- That's your line-up.... I know I would love to shell out $35 for the PPV or buy a $25 DVD feauturing Eugene vs Coach, an epic womans tag match, Jerhico vs Tomko and a horribly predictable title match. It was Shawn vs HHH that was the main event and what was booked as more important than Kane vs Benoit for the title. So they get ALL the blame for that horrid buyrate and joke PPV. Only decent thing about the PPV is Shelton vs Randy and Benoit's work. That's it.
|
|
|
Post by Magneto on May 16, 2006 22:26:45 GMT -5
"The key to a great good guy is having a really great bad guy" - Bret Hart, 1997. If you think people paid to see Austin and not Vince, I dare anyone to list five feuds involving Austin that were BIGGER or MORE entertaining than his war with Vince. Sure, his feuds with Rock and Hart were huge...but not on the scale of his war with Vince. People didn't come to just see Austin kick some ass, they came specifically to see him kick MCMAHON's ass. Give the devil his due. Maybe Hart but Rock vs Austin drew the highest PPV buyrates of the era easily.
|
|