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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 19, 2011 20:14:03 GMT -5
I tried to watch some real fighting tonight
Vitali Klitschko vs Odlanier Solis
It was over in 3 minutes after a phantom punch and a twisted knee
Boring.
I think I'll stick to scripted entertainment fighting.
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Post by Citizen Zero on Mar 19, 2011 20:14:15 GMT -5
I'd pay good money to see an MMA fighter cave JBL's skull in.
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Post by Big fat failure turtle on Mar 19, 2011 20:17:08 GMT -5
Whats sad is that im sure there are guys in MMA who have respect for pro wrestlers, and vice versa. Heck, taker, austin, and rock are big MMA fans. Well, Tito Ortiz was at WM XIX. Also, I've read that Quinton Jackson is fan of wrestling. Anyway, the fans are what sort of turn me off of MMA. I don't have a problem with the sport one bit. I respect the hell out of it and I do enjoy the fights like I enjoy watching a boxing match or even a kickboxing match. However, some of the fanbase consist of jerks who show blatant disrespect to pro wrestling, wrestlers and its fans. Look at some comments on YouTube, especially on some videos of when Ken Shamrock was in the WWF, same with a wrestling match featuring Don Frye or Josh Barnett. They say stuff like "I just lost respect for him" or "Why is he doing this fake stuff," it's really annoying. Grat point! I wonder if these same people make similar comments on IMDB about Oleg Taktarov for "Predators", and Randy Couture for "The Expendables"? |
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Mar 19, 2011 20:17:53 GMT -5
That still falls into same equation. The guy that has had martial arts training is going to have better chances than the guy that doesn't. so in a bar fight, some guy's gonna randomly go for a submission or a rest hold? We're talking about MMA, not a jiu jitsu match. There's more to martial arts than submissions. But on the other hand I can see how a straight up street fight would kind of even the playing field a bit, seeing as how there are no rules and some MMA moves would be rendered ineffective. But I also do think the average MMA fighter could still beat an average pro wrestler. And of course their are always exceptions. |
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namso
AC Slater
Posts: 112
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Post by namso on Mar 19, 2011 20:21:41 GMT -5
being a large and scary looking wrestler doesnt mean they are a good fighter. ill take a guy like fedor over any pro wrestler today, easily.
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Post by Citizen Zero on Mar 19, 2011 20:23:10 GMT -5
You people make it sound like martial arts teachers don't train you to deal with real-world situations.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on Mar 19, 2011 20:58:17 GMT -5
If that's the case Kane could beat anybody by just repeatedly punching them in the crotch. From what I've read in Chris Jericho's book, I quite like Viscera's unique style of street fighting: - Impose will and weight upon them. - Force them to the ground. - Sit on them. - Wait for the authorities to arrive. I'll translate that into MMA terms. Attempt a takedown. Sucessfully get the takedown. Establish Top Control. Negate and/or minimize all strikes and submission attempts from the bottom. Remain in Top Control until the bottom fighter tires or gives up, or if Authoriities STOP the fight. |
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Post by jadison on Mar 19, 2011 21:32:28 GMT -5
so in a bar fight, some guy's gonna randomly go for a submission or a rest hold? Yeah - you're absolutely right... Joe Schmuck who flips burgers for a living is gonna kick the living s*** out of Randy Couture in a bar fight every single time...  Big gap between Joe Schmuck and a drunk pro wrestler. |
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
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Post by The OP on Mar 19, 2011 21:55:07 GMT -5
The thing is, you can sit and argue all day long about who could kick who's ass, but anybody can get a lucky punch. You can certainly analyze MMA fights or pro wrestling matches, but it's pointless to try to predict something which is by it's nature an unpredictable situation.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
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Post by randomranter on Mar 19, 2011 21:57:12 GMT -5
so in a street fight, mma wins hmm? In a street fight, the dirtiest fighter wins. I fail to see how an extensive knowledge of MMA techniques help when some dude smacks you in the head with a bottle, or whatever else is laying around. Pro wrestling training wouldn't help there either. If that's the rules you're setting forth, then it becomes a game of whoever gets the bottle first wins. My 10 year old son could probably smack Randy Couture or Steve Austin with a bottle hard enough to knock either one of them out, but I certainly wouldn't say that he'd win a street fight against either one of them. Second, an MMA fighter with any decent amount of training isn't going to allow his opponent to smack him with a bottle in the first place. And if the guy simply sneaks up from behind and smacks him with a bottle, then you've gotten away from the "pro wrestler vs. MMA figher" part of the discussion and have ventured into "guy with bottle vs. guy without bottle". And in that case, "guy with bottle" is usually going to win. The fact that one was a pro wrestler and the other was an MMA fighter would be completely irrelevant, since neither wrestling nor MMA training would have any bearing on the outcome of the fight. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 21:58:44 GMT -5
I know this, if you do the reverse and had the mma fighter try to wrestle a match, it would not be pretty at all.
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Post by Big fat failure turtle on Mar 19, 2011 21:59:53 GMT -5
The thing is, you can sit and argue all day long about who could kick who's ass, but anybody can get a lucky punch. You can certainly analyze MMA fights or pro wrestling matches, but it's pointless to try to predict something which is by it's nature an unpredictable situation. True, but if you were betting on the outcome, wouldn't you be more likely to favour the guy who's had the MMA training and has the body conditioning to withstand a lot of punishment? Nobody's saying they're bulletproof, just that they would probably have a significant advantage over someone with little or no training. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 19, 2011 22:02:09 GMT -5
That still falls into same equation. The guy that has had martial arts training is going to have better chances than the guy that doesn't. so in a bar fight, some guy's gonna randomly go for a submission or a rest hold? No, but someone actually trained to fight is going to know how and where to hit and defend himself much better than some dude that's just probably going to be flailing around. Not saying a wrestler would do such, but if we're assuming random Joe Shmoe is in the bar fight in question, he's not going to be as good in a fight as someone who does it professionally. |
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
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Post by randomranter on Mar 19, 2011 22:02:21 GMT -5
I know this, if you do the reverse and had the mma fighter try to wrestle a match, it would not be pretty at all. Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn did pretty well for themselves. Heck, Floyd Mayweather (boxer, I know) did a hell of a lot better than people expected. |
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namso
AC Slater
Posts: 112
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Post by namso on Mar 19, 2011 22:03:37 GMT -5
I know this, if you do the reverse and had the mma fighter try to wrestle a match, it would not be pretty at all. wrestling a pro wrestling match is nothing close to a real fight. |
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namso
AC Slater
Posts: 112
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Post by namso on Mar 19, 2011 22:04:14 GMT -5
I know this, if you do the reverse and had the mma fighter try to wrestle a match, it would not be pretty at all. thats like saying an mma fighter would be a bad actor. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 22:05:47 GMT -5
I know this, if you do the reverse and had the mma fighter try to wrestle a match, it would not be pretty at all. Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn did pretty well for themselves. Heck, Floyd Mayweather (boxer, I know) did a hell of a lot better than people expected. There are exceptions, of course, but then Ken started out in pro wrestling and Severn was only in the UFC for a year before he started wrestling in the NWA. And for the people responding that pro wrestling isn't a fight.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... isn't this whole thread about how mma fighters and pro wrestlers are two different types of performers and to put a pro wrestler in a fight against an mma fighter would 99.9% end in the mma fighter victory? Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, putting the mma fighter, with minimal training, into a pro wrestling match would 99.9% end in a bad match unless they had a skilled wrestler to work with? |
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
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Post by The OP on Mar 19, 2011 22:11:11 GMT -5
The thing is, you can sit and argue all day long about who could kick who's ass, but anybody can get a lucky punch. You can certainly analyze MMA fights or pro wrestling matches, but it's pointless to try to predict something which is by it's nature an unpredictable situation. True, but if you were betting on the outcome, wouldn't you be more likely to favour the guy who's had the MMA training and has the body conditioning to withstand a lot of punishment? Nobody's saying they're bulletproof, just that they would probably have a significant advantage over someone with little or no training. No argument there, especially if we're talkin' somebody with no training or experience. I don't know if I'd agree that an MMA fighter would have any significant advantage over a pro wrestler though, necessarily. Somebody who's a good striker would seem to have an advantage, then again a lot of real fights involve more grappling-type situations than you'd intuitively expect if you really think about it. That one I think you'd have to look at case by case and you couldn't say one for one that an MMA guy would always beat a wrestler or vice versa. |
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
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Post by randomranter on Mar 19, 2011 22:15:40 GMT -5
isn't this whole thread about how mma fighters and pro wrestlers are two different types of performers and to put a pro wrestler in a fight against an mma fighter would 99.9% end in the mma fighter victory? Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, putting the mma fighter, with minimal training, would 99.9% end in a bad match unless they had a skilled wrestler to work with? Not necessarily. Besides being told to pull back on the punches and kicks, an MMA fighter can step into a wrestling ring and pretty much do what he does during a normal fight -- punches, kicks, takedowns, submission holds, etc. The wrestler would obviously have to dictate the pace of the match, etc. The end result wouldn't be a Savage/Steamboat 5-star classic, but it wouldn't be "That" Jackie Gayda match, either. Again, look at Floyd Mayweather. He got minimal wrestling training, yet was able to pull off a more-than-passable match vs. Big Show. As long as the MMA guy isn't completely phoning it in and the wrestler knows how to carry the match, the result would be something that would be at least passable, and not an all-out disaster. |
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 19, 2011 22:25:04 GMT -5
I don't know if I'd agree that an MMA fighter would have any significant advantage over a pro wrestler though, necessarily. Somebody who's a good striker would seem to have an advantage, then again a lot of real fights involve more grappling-type situations than you'd intuitively expect if you really think about it. That one I think you'd have to look at case by case and you couldn't say one for one that an MMA guy would always beat a wrestler or vice versa. But look at how many strikers lose matches to grapplers in MMA. Fedor lost his first match in 10 years to Werdum, who won with an armbar and never threw a single punch. Lesnar lost to Mir via kneebar. I would actually say the untrained striker would be at a *disadvantage* since he'd more likely try so hard to land that knockout blow that he himself would quickly find himself on the wrong end of a chokehold and have no way to defend himself. |
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