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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jan 26, 2012 20:21:17 GMT -5
/\ well, let's be honest here, if you want a "relationship" with someone, that includes wanting to have lots of sex.
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Post by AztecaDragon on Jan 26, 2012 20:30:47 GMT -5
/\ well, let's be honest here, if you want a "relationship" with someone, that includes wanting to have lots of sex. Does the relationship you have with family members involve sex?
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Dat Dude
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Post by Dat Dude on Jan 26, 2012 20:36:57 GMT -5
/\ well, let's be honest here, if you want a "relationship" with someone, that includes wanting to have lots of sex. Does the relationship you have with family members involve sex? /\ well, let's be honest here, if you want a "relationship" with someone, that includes wanting to have lots of sex. I responded in that way because the way his post was worded (to me at least) was that he JUST wanted to have sex with the person and nothing else. I used "relationship" to differentiate my thoughts of wanting a long term relationship.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 26, 2012 21:00:39 GMT -5
Not if you actually value the person as a friend and aren't just trying to get into her/his pants.
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Post by AztecaDragon on Jan 26, 2012 21:21:29 GMT -5
Not if you actually value the person as a friend and aren't just trying to get into her/his pants. But you have to understand...it's a relationship. WITH A WOMAN. Why else would a guy talk to a woman? Again, I can't take any "Friend Zone" talk seriously. It's guys feeling like they're "entitled" to something because they treated a woman like a person with a life outside of their unrequited feelings. I'm not even going to pretend this is something just as many women do or anywhere near as much as guys. It's not. We aren't even socialized to be entitled to expect every interaction we have with a man end in a possible consensual romantic or sexual encounter.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jan 26, 2012 21:28:35 GMT -5
/\ well, let's be honest here, if you want a "relationship" with someone, that includes wanting to have lots of sex. Does the relationship you have with family members involve sex? not remotely what I meant. I'm just calling a spade a spade is all. nobody enters into a romantic relationship and only ever thinks "gee wilikers I bet we get to cuddle on the couch and watch My Little Pony". obviously if you care about someone that way you don't JUST want to have sex with them, you want to spend time with them and do other things together too, but nobody ever gets into a romantic relationship just because they want to be that person's tennis partner. ... actually, cuddling on the couch and watching My Little Pony sounds pretty awesome, too.
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Dat Dude
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Post by Dat Dude on Jan 26, 2012 21:58:55 GMT -5
Does the relationship you have with family members involve sex? not remotely what I meant. I'm just calling a spade a spade is all. nobody enters into a romantic relationship and only ever thinks "gee wilikers I bet we get to cuddle on the couch and watch My Little Pony". obviously if you care about someone that way you don't JUST want to have sex with them, you want to spend time with them and do other things together too, but nobody ever gets into a romantic relationship just because they want to be that person's tennis partner. ... actually, cuddling on the couch and watching My Little Pony sounds pretty awesome, too. That's not what I even meant. Sex is just a part of an relationship, but it isn't my sole reason why I want to enter one.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 26, 2012 22:03:53 GMT -5
Not if you actually value the person as a friend and aren't just trying to get into her/his pants. But you have to understand...it's a relationship. WITH A WOMAN. Why else would a guy talk to a woman? Again, I can't take any "Friend Zone" talk seriously. It's guys feeling like they're "entitled" to something because they treated a woman like a person with a life outside of their unrequited feelings. I'm not even going to pretend this is something just as many women do or anywhere near as much as guys. It's not. We aren't even socialized to be entitled to expect every interaction we have with a man end in a possible consensual romantic or sexual encounter. Believe me when I say I'm in no rush to defend guys who always get themselves into the "friend zone". Like I said before, I think the guys who do that either have decent intentions but a poor self-image and wind up making themselves doormats, or they feel, like you say, entitled and think that by pandering to a woman they'll "earn" sex/love/a relationship/whatever. That said, don't neglect what rejection does to men. Young men learn very quickly that if they want to get to know a young woman, it'll be on them to initiate contact and conversation. They learn just as quickly that even in situations where there's mutual interest, it is on the guy to ask for a date, to "make the first move", and to say how he feels, etc. etc. etc. This isn't blaming women for anything; it's simply how we're socialized. However, what can't be neglected is the pain of rejection; and I do mean actual pain. Scientists have actually studied how rejection affects a person: rejection from peers, from family, from a job, from a team, from a potential romantic interest, etc. The findings show that the feeling of rejection is akin to an actual hit to the gut...not just that hollow stomach feeling a person gets, but the same parts of the brain that respond to a physical blow light up when it happens. Guys who put themselves out there and talk to enough women eventually toughen up to this; it's inevitable, most guys get rejected in one form or another most of the time they try to ask a girl out or what have you. But many men are obviously going to fear that feeling, and many don't internalize it that well. Now, does that make it a woman's responsibility to save the guy from himself? Hell no. The guy, as you say, likely brought it on himself, and needs to learn from his mistakes. That said, it's still a harsh reality; guys have to deal with rejection a lot in their social lives. Eventually some guys are going to vent about it, but hopefully they toughen up, wise up, and move on. So I guess it's more a call for understanding than anything else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 22:11:53 GMT -5
if you're in the "Friend Zone" you've already been rejected. you're just too dumb to notice. Yep. Also, if you have to reject a friend, do so but also accept it if that ends the friendship. If your friend feels the best way to deal with the rejection is to not have further contact, then that's the way it is. Your friend should respect your decision to not date him/her, and you should respect his/her decision if your friend no longer wants to talk or do things together.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Jan 26, 2012 22:15:53 GMT -5
^^^ seriously. I've even had girls tell me that I'm supposed to make the first move because I'm the guy. Like it would somehow be slutty for them to take any iniative at all, from requesting a date to leaning in for a kiss. I'm the guy, so I'm supposed to do all the chasing. Well dammit, if I have to do all that because I have a dick and she doesn't then I'm gonna have to stop cookog, cleaning and doing laundry cuz that's her role. Doesn't that sound horrible? Of course it does, but so does that ridiculous attitude that some women have about a man's role.
This is why I like women that are forward. I love it when they're not afraid to show some initiative and throw a compliment my way or ask me on a date. My ego is really fragile,but small gestures like that can make me feel like Superballs.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Jan 26, 2012 22:32:27 GMT -5
The thing is it IS considered slutty or desperate or crazy if women make the first move a lot of times - especially if the woman isn't attractive.
Maybe not for you, but you better believe that there are men out there - a whole f***ing lot of them - who will dump those accusations on any woman who dares make a first move that they don't return the feelings for.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 26, 2012 22:36:30 GMT -5
I agree that complaining about friendzone is ridiculous.And you should be happy at least the person likes you.If tey act like good friends ,and not just a excuse to reject you.
But some of you act like guy only talk to girls because they want to have sex;
There is GUYS that want tp have GIRLS as only friends.pretty girls too,crazy huh?
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 26, 2012 22:40:00 GMT -5
A song about the friend zone here:
I also do have girls as just friends and I'm ok with that, it is a friendship. It just sucks liking a guy who ends up liking someone else, or you know you don't have a chance with, or you tried to ask out and ask to be in a relationship and you're just a friend.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Jan 26, 2012 22:44:41 GMT -5
The thing is it IS considered slutty or desperate or crazy if women make the first move a lot of times - especially if the woman isn't attractive. Maybe not for you, but you better believe that there are men out there - a whole f***ing lot of them - who will dump those accusations on any woman who dares make a first move that they don't return the feelings for. I disagree wholeheartedly. Maybe there's some men out there that would do that, but they're completely stupid. If a women were to lean in for a kiss, grab a guy's hand, or even just get buck ass naked and attack him, how is that more slutty than if she does the exact same thing after the guy makes the first move? How do they think it's gonna go? Girl: I think you're hot. Guy: I THINK YOU'RE A SLUT! I mean, seriously...that's ridiculous. Do they think that somehow their female friends will find out how it went? It's just perplexing to me. A lot of women just have this irrational fear of being labeled as a slut. The thing is, if you don't worry about people thinking you're a slut for walking around with your boobies popping out your shirt or with shorts riding up your ass crack, then you really shouldn't worry about people thinking your a slut b/c you made a move on a guy. You know, and even if a guy does act like a complete moron and go "oh eww you're a slut because you made the first move" is that really that bad? Compare that to what a woman might say about a man who made an unwanted first move, he could be called a creeper or a pervert. IMO, both of those are far more damaging to one's reputation and self esteem than being a slut. The point that I'm trying to make is that it's totally unfair to lobby these expectations on one particular gender. There's absolutely no logical reason that a man should be expected to take all the initiative in the beginning. A woman shouldn't take all the initiative either. Unless, of course, it's some sort of personal preference that turns the person on. Like a man that only likes strong, forward women. Or a woman that wants a man that can take charge. But when the entire argument is structured around "you're the guy, you're supposed to..." it's just complete horse shit.
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spec
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Post by spec on Jan 26, 2012 22:46:31 GMT -5
If by "friend zone" you mean "am only being nice and friendly to this person because I want to get in their pants and am being dishonest about my motives with the friendship and think that women must reward me with a relationship if I'm nice to them" then no, I think being rejected is worse. And I disagree that the women has any blame. Because just because you think your "gestures" are obvious, the woman might just think you're, y'know, friends. There are certainly cases where the woman is being misled, but there are also plenty of cases where the woman knows what's going on but opts to avoid confrontation over it, or in worse (and thankfully fewer) cases opts to milk the situation for her own benefit. Obviously the man who puts himself in the situation bears the brunt of the blame, and again there are plenty of times when the woman is genuinely being misled or simply doesn't recognize what the guy is doing...it's why the blame must be shouldered mostly by the guy. But there's certainly plenty of times when the behavior is allowed to continue and fester because the other party simply won't say what's what. This. Usually women know what's up. Often they'll use it to their advantage.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 26, 2012 22:59:01 GMT -5
Rapidfire, I'd be careful on that; it doesn't work the way you're painting it.
Girls who are forward often won't have to worry so much about rejection, but many times women are told to fear "getting a reputation". In other words, maybe the guy sleeps with her, even sees her for awhile, but then it gets around that she's "easy" or "slutty" or whatever. Sadly, it happens a lot.
Still, I think the easiest way to challenge that would be for women to not fear being direct in just talking to guys. Not hitting on guys or whatever (guys who go up to a girl and just immediately hit on her wind up looking like losers, too), but not fearing to initiate conversation.
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erisi236
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Post by erisi236 on Jan 26, 2012 23:03:05 GMT -5
I'm starting to wonder how anyone actually hooks up, our society is so messed up.
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Dean-o
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Post by Dean-o on Jan 26, 2012 23:03:49 GMT -5
There was this girl I had a MAJOR crush on, and since I was in an awkard position in my life at that time, I couldn't muster up the confidence to make a move on her, even though all the signs were there.
I waited too long, she found another boyfriend, and I became smack dab in the friend zone until I just dropped contact with her. It was for the best.
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Post by AztecaDragon on Jan 26, 2012 23:04:39 GMT -5
Guys with low self-esteem can still be entitled clots and I don't see complaining about "The Friend Zone" the same as dealing with hurt feelings behind rejection from an actual romantic relationship.
It's whining when the reality doesn't match up to your entitlement.
The entire reason "just being friends" with a woman is something guys find the need to complain about is because it's implied the only thing a woman has to offer a man is romantic shenanigans. It's dehumanizing. If women were considered people and not an entirely different species of...."women" you wouldn't find so many guys go on about how oh-so-difficult it is.
I don't give a **** about hurt feelings that involve complaining about "the friend zone."
I wouldn't get any hugs over the guy only continuing to hang out with me because he's trying to finagle his way into my drawers, the best I'd get is "The guy watched The Notebook with you, IT WAS OBVIOUS HE WANTED TO MATE!"
Because I'm to be psychic and tell all the intentions behind a guy wanting to hang out or buy things I never ask for him to buy? **** that.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 26, 2012 23:07:16 GMT -5
Guys with low self-esteem can still be entitled clots and I don't see complaining about "The Friend Zone" the same as dealing with hurt feelings behind rejection from an actual romantic relationship. It's whining when the reality doesn't match up to your entitlement. The entire reason " just being friends" with a woman is something guys find the need to complain about is because it's implied the only thing a woman has to offer a man is romantic shenanigans. It's dehumanizing. If women were considered people and not an entirely different species of...."women" you wouldn't find so many guys go on about how oh-so-difficult it is. I don't give a **** about hurt feelings that involve complaining about "the friend zone." I wouldn't get any hugs over the guy only continuing to hang out with me because he's trying to finagle his way into my drawers, the best I'd get is "The guy watched The Notebook with you, IT WAS OBVIOUS HE WANTED TO MATE!" Because I'm to be psychic and tell all the intentions behind a guy wanting to hang out or buy things I never ask for him to buy? **** that. What if a guy really wanted a relationship with the girl? With that person, if you will.
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