erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
Not good! Not good! Not good!
Posts: 21,904
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Post by erisi236 on Jan 26, 2012 23:09:22 GMT -5
Guys with low self-esteem can still be entitled clots and I don't see complaining about "The Friend Zone" the same as dealing with hurt feelings behind rejection from an actual romantic relationship. It's whining when the reality doesn't match up to your entitlement. The entire reason " just being friends" with a woman is something guys find the need to complain about is because it's implied the only thing a woman has to offer a man is romantic shenanigans. It's dehumanizing. If women were considered people and not an entirely different species of...."women" you wouldn't find so many guys go on about how oh-so-difficult it is. I don't give a **** about hurt feelings that involve complaining about "the friend zone." I wouldn't get any hugs over the guy only continuing to hang out with me because he's trying to finagle his way into my drawers, the best I'd get is "The guy watched The Notebook with you, IT WAS OBVIOUS HE WANTED TO MATE!" Because I'm to be psychic and tell all the intentions behind a guy wanting to hang out or buy things I never ask for him to buy? **** that. You're constantly being so glib towards what guys might feel and it's pretty funny. |
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Post by AztecaDragon on Jan 26, 2012 23:25:25 GMT -5
What if a guy really wanted a relationship with the girl? With that person, if you will. You're going to have to be more specific about that question. I want to be absolutely sure of what I'm replying to... You're constantly being so glib towards what guys might feel and it's pretty funny. Hey, it's from the heart. If a guy is on here complaining about a "friend zone"? Mmkay guy. #NO1CURR |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 26, 2012 23:28:32 GMT -5
Guys with low self-esteem can still be entitled clots and I don't see complaining about "The Friend Zone" the same as dealing with hurt feelings behind rejection from an actual romantic relationship. It's whining when the reality doesn't match up to your entitlement. The entire reason " just being friends" with a woman is something guys find the need to complain about is because it's implied the only thing a woman has to offer a man is romantic shenanigans. It's dehumanizing. If women were considered people and not an entirely different species of...."women" you wouldn't find so many guys go on about how oh-so-difficult it is. I don't give a **** about hurt feelings that involve complaining about "the friend zone." I wouldn't get any hugs over the guy only continuing to hang out with me because he's trying to finagle his way into my drawers, the best I'd get is "The guy watched The Notebook with you, IT WAS OBVIOUS HE WANTED TO MATE!" Because I'm to be psychic and tell all the intentions behind a guy wanting to hang out or buy things I never ask for him to buy? **** that. I'm not going to discount most of what you're saying, as I agree, a ton of these guys have entitlement issues and a warped view of human interactions and how they might lead to possible romantic interests. However, to discount rejection even when it's not coming from an already established relationship is short sighted. Again, it's more from dealing with it on a constant basis if a man wants to interact with women, due to the socialization that teaches men have to do the introducing, opening a conversation, asking for a date, asking for a second date, etc. etc. It's a lot of rejection, and it can come at any point along the way. Takes awhile for many guys to learn to deal with it. As for if a guy is simply looking for sex or is looking for an entire relationship, that's more a case by case thing. |
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Post by The Booty Disciple on Jan 26, 2012 23:38:45 GMT -5
I'm with Azteca on this one...a guy that bitches about becoming a friend obviously isn't being honest with himself, or with the other party. Its an illusion that a person creates for themselves..."They like me as a friend." Well, fine...if you honestly care about this person and are BEING a friend, caring for them and respecting them, you won't have a problem being mature and honest about it, accepting it, and determining if you can actually make a friendship work. If you sit around and complain, your motives are suspect at best, and completely transparent at worst.
Being a "friend" means placing their needs, desires, and feelings on equal footing with your own. If you cannot handle the fact that you need to treat them as a "friend" and person, rather than someone who you still pine for romantically (and for many, by proxy, sexually), then you need to step back and take a look at what kind of a person you're being and how you're treating the other party.
Mind you, this is not to say that some of the "other party" are unwilling, for a myriad of reasons, to not establish clear and concise boundaries about where the relationship lies, but a good chunk of this thread has been devoted to convoluted ideas of what the "friend zone" actually is. If you cannot adequately define what it is, then you clearly aren't being honest with what your true motives are.
I'm in the friend zone with a close female friend that I've had feelings for nigh on 9 years. She knows it. I know it. I've laid it on the line in the past. Things happened in the past. We actually got through all that and are very, very tight because we're big enough kids to understand that we really care about the OTHER person more than our unrequited feelings. In fact, even right now, I still have the old romantic feelings bubble up every now and again...but I'm also her sounding board the last two nights for a really lousy situation with another guy right now. All of that is possible because I took my selfishness out of the equation and accepted that being a friend is NOT the same as being nice with ulterior motives. I wish many that have posted here would take a similar stance.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 26, 2012 23:40:34 GMT -5
What if a guy really wanted a relationship with the girl? With that person, if you will. You're going to have to be more specific about that question. I want to be absolutely sure of what I'm replying to... You're constantly being so glib towards what guys might feel and it's pretty funny. Hey, it's from the heart. If a guy is on here complaining about a "friend zone"? Mmkay guy. #NO1CURR The only thing a man wants is romantic shenanigans as you said. But what I'm asking, is if the guy really wanted to be with that person, and not just the romantic shenanigans? |
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Post by AztecaDragon on Jan 26, 2012 23:47:19 GMT -5
I'm not going to discount most of what you're saying, as I agree, a ton of these guys have entitlement issues and a warped view of human interactions and how they might lead to possible romantic interests. However, to discount rejection even when it's not coming from an already established relationship is short sighted. So...I'm supposed to empathize on some level with a guy whining about "the friend zone" because of how difficult the social pressure is to talk to a woman? Considering you really should just talk to us with respect like you would any other person anyway...? Considering the horrible, contradictory and sometimes dangerous minefield women, especially if they're women-of-color (like I am) have to deal with...? No dice. All those standards didn't spring fully-formed from the mind of a woman, anyway. Though from the way you'll have some guys here tell it... |
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mcd
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,283
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Post by mcd on Jan 26, 2012 23:51:27 GMT -5
Guys with low self-esteem can still be entitled clots and I don't see complaining about "The Friend Zone" the same as dealing with hurt feelings behind rejection from an actual romantic relationship. It's whining when the reality doesn't match up to your entitlement. The entire reason " just being friends" with a woman is something guys find the need to complain about is because it's implied the only thing a woman has to offer a man is romantic shenanigans. It's dehumanizing. If women were considered people and not an entirely different species of...."women" you wouldn't find so many guys go on about how oh-so-difficult it is. I don't give a **** about hurt feelings that involve complaining about "the friend zone." I wouldn't get any hugs over the guy only continuing to hang out with me because he's trying to finagle his way into my drawers, the best I'd get is "The guy watched The Notebook with you, IT WAS OBVIOUS HE WANTED TO MATE!" Because I'm to be psychic and tell all the intentions behind a guy wanting to hang out or buy things I never ask for him to buy? **** that. I'm not going to discount most of what you're saying, as I agree, a ton of these guys have entitlement issues and a warped view of human interactions and how they might lead to possible romantic interests. However, to discount rejection even when it's not coming from an already established relationship is short sighted. Again, it's more from dealing with it on a constant basis if a man wants to interact with women, due to the socialization that teaches men have to do the introducing, opening a conversation, asking for a date, asking for a second date, etc. etc. It's a lot of rejection, and it can come at any point along the way. Takes awhile for many guys to learn to deal with it. As for if a guy is simply looking for sex or is looking for an entire relationship, that's more a case by case thing. Agreed. If a person is JUST looking for a hookup and has a convienient friend who they fixate on, dude..(or chick) thats not healthy or cool. It's going to probably end in a bad state. However if you are somewhat free and clear of any other relationships and test the waters, I don't see the harm in doing so. If it's a rejection outright you more than likely just lost a friend due to them discovering you are not as "safe' as once thought. If it is reciprocated then you may have found a very cool partner. There is also the state that starts with " I REALLY REALLY like you" but they simply don't feel the same way. If you both are talking after, I think you may have found yourself a GREAT friend. And there ain't nothing wrong with that. Believe me, if I may. I have a buddy that I have gone through heck and back with, we have stopped short every single time due to relationships, bad experiences and seeing each other flat out NUDE. But I can still ask her anything, flirt and joke and she can saw she hooked up with another guy and I don't feel obligated to get there and sock him. Is it easy and cool? Hell no! Some days I think she may show up at my doorstep. Some days I want to show up at hers. We have gone MONTHS between talking over a particular revelation that ticked us both off. I would rather just have my buddy there, so I can have someone to hang with. LOL and maybe she gives me an innapropriate squeeze. |
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mcd
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,283
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Post by mcd on Jan 27, 2012 0:03:22 GMT -5
I'm with Azteca on this one...a guy that bitches about becoming a friend obviously isn't being honest with himself, or with the other party. Its an illusion that a person creates for themselves..."They like me as a friend." Well, fine...if you honestly care about this person and are BEING a friend, caring for them and respecting them, you won't have a problem being mature and honest about it, accepting it, and determining if you can actually make a friendship work. If you sit around and complain, your motives are suspect at best, and completely transparent at worst. VERY well said Booty. Thank you! It may stink at times, but caring about anothers feelings and respecting them shows a damn good grasp on the relationship. I admit to being purely physically attracted to my buddy at the start, but just listening to them and enjoying the conversation has absolutely done wonders for myself and her. I LIKE reading her words, listening to her complaints and gripes and just being there. Being a "friend" means placing their needs, desires, and feelings on equal footing with your own. If you cannot handle the fact that you need to treat them as a "friend" and person, rather than someone who you still pine for romantically (and for many, by proxy, sexually), then you need to step back and take a look at what kind of a person you're being and how you're treating the other party. Mind you, this is not to say that some of the "other party" are unwilling, for a myriad of reasons, to not establish clear and concise boundaries about where the relationship lies, but a good chunk of this thread has been devoted to convoluted ideas of what the "friend zone" actually is. If you cannot adequately define what it is, then you clearly aren't being honest with what your true motives are. I'm in the friend zone with a close female friend that I've had feelings for nigh on 9 years. She knows it. I know it. I've laid it on the line in the past. Things happened in the past. We actually got through all that and are very, very tight because we're big enough kids to understand that we really care about the OTHER person more than our unrequited feelings. In fact, even right now, I still have the old romantic feelings bubble up every now and again...but I'm also her sounding board the last two nights for a really lousy situation with another guy right now. All of that is possible because I took my selfishness out of the equation and accepted that being a friend is NOT the same as being nice with ulterior motives. I wish many that have posted here would take a similar stance. |
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mcd
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,283
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Post by mcd on Jan 27, 2012 0:12:29 GMT -5
I'm not going to discount most of what you're saying, as I agree, a ton of these guys have entitlement issues and a warped view of human interactions and how they might lead to possible romantic interests. However, to discount rejection even when it's not coming from an already established relationship is short sighted. So...I'm supposed to empathize on some level with a guy whining about "the friend zone" because of how difficult the social pressure is to talk to a woman? Considering you really should just talk to us with respect like you would any other person anyway...? Considering the horrible, contradictory and sometimes dangerous minefield women, especially if they're women-of-color (like I am) have to deal with...? No dice. All those standards didn't spring fully-formed from the mind of a woman, anyway. Though from the way you'll have some guys here tell it... Azteca....I getcha on the 'person-of-color thing I think. The lady whose friendship I enjoy is the same. Lots of social pressure, internal strife, and just looking to be a BUDDY to someone. As mentioned, (and I shamefully admitted) I was attracted to her initally due to her ethnicity and she to mine. But we worked it out and I can't imagine her not being there to talk to. Maybe when we are both 80 we will hang out, but if not, I have a friend I would gladly hop in front of a train for! I think thats pretty darn good. |
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Post by AztecaDragon on Jan 27, 2012 0:18:02 GMT -5
The only thing a man wants is romantic shenanigans as you said. But what I'm asking, is if the guy really wanted to be with that person, and not just the romantic shenanigans? The thing is, by being a friend you already have a relationship. If you wanted something more from the beginning then you should make that clear at the beginning. If you hang out with her anyway but all you can do is semaphore your disdain over "the friend zone" then... |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 27, 2012 0:18:09 GMT -5
I'm not going to discount most of what you're saying, as I agree, a ton of these guys have entitlement issues and a warped view of human interactions and how they might lead to possible romantic interests. However, to discount rejection even when it's not coming from an already established relationship is short sighted. So...I'm supposed to empathize on some level with a guy whining about "the friend zone" because of how difficult the social pressure is to talk to a woman? Considering you really should just talk to us with respect like you would any other person anyway...? Considering the horrible, contradictory and sometimes dangerous minefield women, especially if they're women-of-color (like I am) have to deal with...? No dice. All those standards didn't spring fully-formed from the mind of a woman, anyway. Though from the way you'll have some guys here tell it... What does "going up with respect" have to do with the issue at hand, since we're not talking about sleazy pickup artist situations? A man can approach a woman completely respectfully and forthright and still find himself rejected before long. That's the woman's prerogative in that situation. I certainly am not doubting the difficulties and drawbacks of being a woman in a social setting, but you come off as hand-waving and disregarding the difficulties of being in a man in the same environment. They're a very different set of issues, one isn't necessarily greater than the other. EDIT: This makes it sound like I'm somehow disagreeing about the stupidity of getting into "friend zone" situations, but I'm really not. I'm simply pointing out that these are lessons nearly every man has to learn on his own, and sadly it takes some longer than others. |
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 27, 2012 0:30:20 GMT -5
The only thing a man wants is romantic shenanigans as you said. But what I'm asking, is if the guy really wanted to be with that person, and not just the romantic shenanigans? The thing is, by being a friend you already have a relationship. If you wanted something more from the beginning then you should make that clear at the beginning. If you hang out with her anyway but all you can do is semaphore your disdain over "the friend zone" then... But what if one develops feelings overtime, and it's brought up, and then it happens to be too late, shit, the friend zone again? My issue is, it's not just guys wanting to have sex with a chick and then going online and in their Vince McMahon voice saying, "Goddamnit, why can't I have sex with this chick goddamnit". |
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Post by "I'm Batman..." on Jan 27, 2012 0:38:06 GMT -5
The only thing a man wants is romantic shenanigans as you said. But what I'm asking, is if the guy really wanted to be with that person, and not just the romantic shenanigans? The thing is, by being a friend you already have a relationship. If you wanted something more from the beginning then you should make that clear at the beginning. If you hang out with her anyway but all you can do is semaphore your disdain over "the friend zone" then... You don't always know what you want at the beginning. People sometimes develop feelings for one another (years) after getting to know each other. I think people are making this too black & white. When I was younger I would put myself in the "friend-zone",it was horrible. Now that I am older when I ask someone out and they say no, that's the end of it. I am always wondering if I am missing out on a good friend. It's really just as bad on either side. You could be trying to make something work that isn't. You could also be missing something out on something that could be great. I prefer to get rejected, it still sucks but I can start moving on sooner. I hope that makes sense. |
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Post by AztecaDragon on Jan 27, 2012 0:43:09 GMT -5
What does "going up with respect" have to do with the issue at hand, since we're not talking about sleazy pickup artist situations? A man can approach a woman completely respectfully and forthright and still find himself rejected before long. That's the woman's prerogative in that situation. The complaints about "friend zoning" are not a matter of you being HONEST but just getting rejected, it starts with a guy lying through his ass about his intentions then getting all bitter AT THE WOMAN for daring to take him at face value. I "come off" as that? Whatev. I specifically said what I didn't give a **** about. But see... If we are constantly telling you this type of behavior brands you with the scarlet letter ("A" is for "asshole,") then tell you why it does...all you really have to do is listen and not keep going on at how you don't think men's feelings were adequately considered. EDIT: If you develop those feelings over time, admit it, then still continue to be friends? You don't have any right to complain either. You're still friends. If you feel you can't be friends after that then just say you don't and break it the hell off. The friendship, I mean. It's a hell of a lot better and more honest than just stewing in a friendship you don't want and turning all bitter. |
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Post by punishment on Jan 27, 2012 3:53:32 GMT -5
I friendzoned a girl before, does that make me an alpha male?
You guys just need to learn how to talk to the opposite sex, they are just as human as you and me. Same amounts of hopes, fears and ambitions as anyone else.
and whats sad is the peeps who are usually "friendzoned" are usually jealous butthurt pricks when they finally get a girlfriend.
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Lara
Don Corleone
IS A SWEETHEART
Posts: 1,292
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Post by Lara on Jan 27, 2012 3:54:35 GMT -5
If the person who just hit on you unwantedly is actually a friend: be decent. Be tactful but honest and give them the clean mercy kill of straight rejection. Girls are not socialised to do this - they're socialised to be 'nice' about it - but be clear, the answer is no, not now, not ever. Don't string someone along. Your friendship may be salvageable. If not, well, there are other friends.
If this doesn't work, and they continue to creep on you and do some entitled whining about the friend zone, don't see them any more because this person has no respect for your boundaries, and clearly does not take a straight no for an answer.
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Post by D2: Sweet & Sour Edition on Jan 27, 2012 4:05:01 GMT -5
Without reading a whole lot of the last 4 pages, I'll simply share my own story.
About three and a half years ago, I ended up getting friend zone'd by somebody I was really into and had known for about six years. And yeah, it sucked. It sucked then. But it was one of those things where I knew we'd always stay close. We worked together during the Halloween season, and were both huge into pro wrestling.
Fast forward three and a half years. I'm engaged to somebody completely different (and saner), have a beautiful adopted daughter, and her and I are as close as you could possibly be without having a romantic connection. We both got into the wrestling business and work shows together whenever we can. She's unquestionably one of the best friends I could possibly ask for. Being FZ'd isn't always a curse. It can be a major blessing that pays off down the road.
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Post by dorf on Jan 27, 2012 8:14:44 GMT -5
In regards to the subject title, dependent on time and patience...no. If you believe that she is highly likely going to be "the one," or someone you want to be in a relationship with, then you have to be just yourself and maybe you have a chance of success...or not. It's life, one of those things to choose to accept the ride or choose to move on.
I chose to accept the ride with a cross country teammate in 2006 and asked her out in 2008. It turned out to be a fail and got stuck in the "friendzone" for two years, before asking her out again. She said yes this time, but it was a shaky four months and she broke up with me for stupid reasons. After I said "goodbye," I chose to move on, even though I still thought of her almost everyday.
Seven months later, she apologized to me out of nowhere for her actions. I didn't believe her at first, but we connected well immediately and as a result I asked her out again last February. This time around its been a complete success and honestly believe that 2011 has been the greatest year of my life so far. I say so far, because I do plan to propose to her in the near future and hopefully live to our goals, achieve our lives together.
The good thing about being in the "friendzone" is that you really get to know the person as time goes on and its up to you to make the choice to accept or move on. Ergo, having experienced both issues firsthand, I believe that being dumped is worse short-term than the "friendzone." Long-term is opposite.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 27, 2012 8:40:46 GMT -5
Rejection is a definitive answer and gives you license to move on.
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Post by angryfan on Jan 27, 2012 9:12:15 GMT -5
The only thing I loathe about being friend-zoned is when I get a version of "you're the kind of guy I need to find" followed by pointing out some trivial and often shallow reason why I don't qualify for more than friendship. One o fmy closest friends, who I had developed feelings for, hit me with the line many years ago, then followed with "except I don't date short guys".
I look at it this way, the majority of my close friends are femaile, I don't have romantic feelings for them, and some the mre thought of it is nausiating. Yeah, that sounds bad, but it raelly would be like dating my sister in a sense. Friendship is fine and wonderful in and of itself, but my issue has always been "if the answer is no to more than just friends, please don't tell me how perfect I am for you except for something that I'd be called shallow for caring about".
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