Mozenrath
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Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,203
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Post by Mozenrath on May 24, 2012 17:30:05 GMT -5
This is the type of thing they need to stop doing. You hear legends like Roddy Piper talk about how they did things on-screen without permission and how current wrestlers should take the same risks. But then when they try it, they get punished. It's funny you mention Piper when he is a perfect example of why they have a script in the first place. Guys like him and Flair are people you hand a live mic if you are not worried about losing a sponsor. At least it's not like with Lorne Michaels, where going off the script gets you banned from his show, often permanently.
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Joon
Mike the Goon
Natalya kindly requests you get the hell out of her ring.
Posts: 35
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Post by Joon on May 24, 2012 17:32:10 GMT -5
Incredible read, this extract is extremely harrowing. Wow. I honestly wish Vince would just take a couple of months off, just to see how much the product changes. I don't wish he retires or anything he doesn't want to do as it's his company and he's fully earnt the right to do whatever he wants, but god damn its going to be so interesting to see WWE without Vince's 100% control on it one day. YES. It's almost terrifying to me that Vince is apparently that out of touch. How can you possibly know what's relevant in the world if you haven't really been in it for a few decades? Also, I honestly laughed out loud at "shartshooter". That is awesome. They should've used it!
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 24, 2012 17:32:34 GMT -5
Vince has never seen The Shining? My God that man is out of touch! dude he never saw or heard of Scarface. The story is that when he signed Scott Hall, Hall was doing Tony Montana impressions quoting the movie and Vince thought Hall was a genius coming up with everything on his own. That's why Razor Ramon was Cuban... as Hall said Mr. Perfect was in the room during the interview as he and Hall were friends and when they left for a break he told Hall not to even mention Scarface and just go with it.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on May 24, 2012 17:33:01 GMT -5
Vince has never seen The Shining? My God that man is out of touch! Aspiring WWE wrestlers should all take a page from Scott Hall's book and go to Vince and pitch gimmicks based on famous characters from pop culture and he'll think they're geniuses from coming up with these incredible ideas on their own.
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,615
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Post by PKO on May 24, 2012 17:33:41 GMT -5
That was one of the most interesting reads in years (possibly because it's all so recent).
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Post by woowoowoox on May 24, 2012 17:34:16 GMT -5
I love reading things like this. I wish he would've talked about the whole Christian fiasco because I would love to try and understand WWE's logic behind that.
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Joon
Mike the Goon
Natalya kindly requests you get the hell out of her ring.
Posts: 35
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Post by Joon on May 24, 2012 17:39:12 GMT -5
I love reading things like this. I wish he would've talked about the whole Christian fiasco because I would love to try and understand WWE's logic behind that. Call me dumb, but what fiasco? (newish fan.)
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on May 24, 2012 17:43:25 GMT -5
Didn't the whole thing with Christian and the title happen before this guy was with the company?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on May 24, 2012 17:44:56 GMT -5
I love reading things like this. I wish he would've talked about the whole Christian fiasco because I would love to try and understand WWE's logic behind that. Del Rio was supposed to win the title at Extreme Rules and drop it to Orton on SmackDown but they didn't want to hurt Del Rio and Vince thought Christian winning would be a good moment so he went with him instead. There was never any plan for someone other than Orton to have the long title reign.
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on May 24, 2012 17:47:45 GMT -5
From what I understand, their long term plan was to turn Christian heel, and him losing the belt so quickly after winning it for the first time was to be the trigger. Only thing I didn't buy was Christian blaming the fans, when every fan I knew was so happy he won the title and so angry when he lost it.
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theryno665
Grimlock
wants a title underneath the stars
Kinda Homeless
Posts: 13,571
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Post by theryno665 on May 24, 2012 17:48:07 GMT -5
I liked reading this. I liked more that the writing process doesn't seem as chaotic and random as I thought. I expected them to have the card set for Wrestlemania and then book backwards but like with the Cena/Kane "grid chart" or the list of when people get hit with belts and such, I kinda liked seeing that as it shows they do take care and not half-ass things.
So basically, Creative at least tries, but sometimes Vince gets crazy.
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Post by Todd's crazy , Man. on May 24, 2012 17:52:36 GMT -5
Vince has never seen The Shining? My God that man is out of touch! Aspiring WWE wrestlers should all take a page from Scott Hall's book and go to Vince and pitch gimmicks based on famous characters from pop culture and he'll think they're geniuses from coming up with these incredible ideas on their own. THIS. Seriously if I was in creative , I would just throw stuff out like "What if we had a clown who was also an anarchist who attacked people just for the fun of it?" just to see if Vince even knew who the Joker Was. Or Hell , "There's this guy from Philadelphia and he works in a meat factory but he also wrestles. We call him the Italian stallion. He's a real underdog."
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on May 24, 2012 17:54:43 GMT -5
I assume that whole mess with Christian came about from Edge retiring unexpectedly, and them trying to slot Orton into his spot in the booking as quickly as possible.
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Welfare Willis
Crow T. Robot
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Post by Welfare Willis on May 24, 2012 18:02:43 GMT -5
That was a fascinating bit of insight into the WWE. I don't hate Sheamus as the next it guy, but I'm just not sure he can be on Cena's level of star power.
The good thing about holding off on the Cena heel turn is when they do it, it's going to be huge.
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
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Posts: 1,664
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Post by Psychoblue on May 24, 2012 18:06:59 GMT -5
Am I the only one who can't stop laughing at CM Punk giving the bird to Awesome Truth? Imagine if he tried that a year before when the Best of the World thing hadn't come into fruition.
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Post by woowoowoox on May 24, 2012 18:12:49 GMT -5
Yeah I skipped over the part where it said he was only employed from September to December of last year. My bad.
Anyway, that was kind of my point; there's about three or four different stories about what they were really going for in regards to Edge/Christian/Rio/Orton so I'd love to have the story set straight.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2012 18:19:18 GMT -5
I love reading things like this. I wish he would've talked about the whole Christian fiasco because I would love to try and understand WWE's logic behind that. To be fair, the WWE didn't know that he had Malaysian slaves.
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Post by celticjobber on May 24, 2012 18:29:11 GMT -5
Here's a few more tidbits from the original thread on Gamefaqs:
Stupid Ideas and Storylines that Were Shot Down:
"With the tag division in pathetic shape, Brian Gewirtz suggested to throw Tyson Kidd and Heath Slater together as a tag team and call them The Rock and Roll Kids. We all kind of laughed about it but he even pitched it to Vince. Vince didn't go for it.
There was brief discussion of some wilder ideas, like making Mason Ryan gay or giving Alex Riley a long-term storyline where he fakes having cancer to get sympathy from the crowd. Both of these never made it anywhere.
Kaitlyn was supposed to be the third heel diva to join Beth and Natalya in the divas of doom. They even went so far as to have her turn on AJ at Smackdown, but due to poor planning the segment was really poorly done. Kaitlyn, Beth and Natalya didn't really know what to do and it didn't look good so it was edited out of the show and planned to be re-done the following week. However some other Diva drama came up backstage or whatever, leading to the whole division being kind of in the doghouse in Vince's mind. Vince ultimately decided there didn't need to be a third heel diva at all, and broke up Divas of Doom soon after before deciding to push Tamina.
Ziggler and Swagger breaking up was teased at first, but Vince told us to drop it and keep them together.
There was talks for a long time of Layla returning with an eccentric fashion-centered gimmick in the style of Lady Gaga, but obviously that didn't happen.
When Punk was feuding with Del Rio we had an idea of having Del Rio cutting a promo, when someone dressed up as a WWE ice cream bar comes out from the back. Del Rio assumes its Punk and beats him up, but then tears off the costume to reveal that its Ricardo tied up with tape over his mouth, and it was just a scheme by Punk to mess with Del Rio. It didn't make much logical sense and never made it to air.
A few of us wanted Cody to go absolutely bats*** psychotic after his mask was destroyed and be more of a loose canon character I guess like how Dean Ambrose is. Instead he went back to being regular heel Cody. I'm not sure why.
There were some plans to have Drew McIntyre feud with Sheamus by having Drew bully sheamus with a picture of him as a little fat kid. There was also a lot of background with them because they wrestled together in the Indys but it never got off the ground.
Hunico introduced Primo and Epico and Camacho and the initial plan was to form a stable, but Vince was concerned that it was too gang-like and racist and split them up pretty quick.
At the time I left, the idea was for Zeke's losing streak to culminate in a heel turn, but that's yet to happen.
There was an idea to having something that makes the Usos stand apart -- one idea was that Jimmy could be really smart and Jey could be really stupid.
They were considering doing a relationship between a face Diva and a heel superstar. I believe the frontrunner was Kelly Kelly with Wade Barrett, but that never happened."
On Jack Swagger:
"Swagger is complicated. I got the impression that nobody had much faith in him on the mic, and though his character is obviously stale and has degenerated to jobber status, at the time that I was at WWE the roster was very thin. People kept getting injured and no new stars were coming in. So we kind of needed someone in Swagger's position -- a big guy who looks like a serious competitor but can be beaten to make someone else looks good. And like I said earlier, Vince had no intention of splitting up Ziggler and Swagger, so a face turn was not in the cards for the time being.
Quick story about Swagger. On the muppets episode of RAW after he lost to Santino, Swagger kicked the glass beaker out of frustration. It flew into the barricade and smashed on a little girl and her father. WWE took them backstage to check on them and apologize, they met a bunch of superstars and Swagger apologized personally. The father left extremely satisfied with the professionalism of the company and a potential lawsuit was avoided."
Randy Orton and the Time He Pissed In A Trash Can at Gorilla Position:
"Don't know much about Orton. I get the impression that he too is a joker that messes around with people, but pretty reserved like his on screen character. The only thing I saw him do backstage at Survivor Series was take pictures with a family that was brought backstage for some reason. Also I heard a story from some random RAW/SD where Orton was waiting in gorilla to go out for his match up next, right behind the curtain. In gorilla is usually Vince, Triple H, the agent of the match, sometimes Stephanie and a writer or two if they're not busy doing something else. Anyway Orton's getting ready to go out, and he turns his back to everyone and starts peeing in a trash can in gorilla. Triple H is like "Randy what the hell are you doing?" and he just shrugs and says "I always get the urge to pee before I go out." -- On Jinder Mahal:
"Well I guess he was brought in for the Indian audiences, though his storyline with Khali and Ranjin Singh (played by Raw head writer Dave Kapoor) was kinda dropped. I guess Jinder is one of those guys that Vince saw something in. I remember we would get notes from meetings with him on the road that would say like
* From now on VKM wants Jinder to speak only in Punjabi
then a few weeks later he cuts a promo in english
then we'd get a note like
* VKM says Jinder should always speak in an indian accent
and then that wouldn't last very long either.
*Jinder Mahal will start wearing a turban to the ring
The last Jinder-related note I remember was
* VKM wants Jinder to put his turban in a glass case before his match.
So these ideas all coming from vince, I think it was safe to assume Vince saw a lot of potential in the Jinder character as an anti-american heel." ---
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Post by pepsitwist on May 24, 2012 18:51:47 GMT -5
Here's a few more tidbits from the original thread on Gamefaqs: Randy Orton and the Time He Pissed In A Trash Can at Gorilla Position:"Don't know much about Orton. I get the impression that he too is a joker that messes around with people, but pretty reserved like his on screen character. The only thing I saw him do backstage at Survivor Series was take pictures with a family that was brought backstage for some reason. Also I heard a story from some random RAW/SD where Orton was waiting in gorilla to go out for his match up next, right behind the curtain. In gorilla is usually Vince, Triple H, the agent of the match, sometimes Stephanie and a writer or two if they're not busy doing something else. Anyway Orton's getting ready to go out, and he turns his back to everyone and starts peeing in a trash can in gorilla. Triple H is like "Randy what the hell are you doing?" and he just shrugs and says "I always get the urge to pee before I go out." -- Amazing. It's fascinating read on the whole.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2012 18:54:53 GMT -5
That Alex Riley idea is genius and should have been done.
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