Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 14:11:00 GMT -5
I say this every time one of these types of threads come up but if TNA presented women's wrestling as something other than filler and/or eye candy it could really get over. Of course the women will have to be presented as sexy but they would also have to be presented as legitimate competitive athletes. Take Ronda Rousey for instance, she does really good numbers for UFC as far as I know, she's sexy but she's also competitive, highly skilled and will beat your ass given the chance. If women's wrestling tried something like that instead of hiring second rate strippers and having them act bitchy towards each other and instead presented them as legitimate athletes that want the women's title and gave them decent angles it would get over. Instead women's wrestling is still stuck in the dark ages of having a half dressed chick out there for the sake of popping the dudes in the audiences boners.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Nov 8, 2013 14:19:29 GMT -5
NICOLE BASS
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Post by wwotbh on Nov 8, 2013 14:19:52 GMT -5
Personally, I'd like to see them pick up Nikki Storm or someone of that caliber. Her speaking/acting skills are to die for which to me are a priority in getting people to care about 9/10 new debuts as far as American wrestling goes. If she were a dude she'd be WWE bound. Here's my advice. Hire talented female workers, book them in strong compelling storylines and give them characters that connect with an audience, thus all contributing to creating a stable, long term, solid women's division that people want to watch. TNA should try that The moment they abandoned this (early 2010?) is when the lights started flickering on the division. It will always be a terrible tale the way TNA laid waste to something that was consistently one of the only good things they were putting out there for years prior. people don't like watching green wrestlers no matter what the gender and it takes a hell of a push to overcome that Exactly. And I don't really get the divide between "model" and "wrestler" anyway. Is a failed model really a model? Is an aspiring model really a model? Most of WWE's "models" seemed to just be pretty girls with Model Mayhem accounts, something that many independent women's wrestlers can say for themselves as well. This seemed to have been impled up the thread but I really need to know how exactly a girl like Jessie McKay isn't in the same league of beauty as the average WWE Diva? Does having pre-existing training or passion somehow diminish a woman's looks? The way some people always manage to cough up disdain for women who got into wrestling of their own accord, you would think the indies consist entirely of homely, toothless rednecks.
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Nov 8, 2013 14:39:08 GMT -5
As soon as I saw this thread go longer than a page, I knew who had posted in it, and what he was going to say. Never ceases to bemuse me. I'd like for wrestlers such as Mia Yim and Leva Bates to be used (I'd say Santana Garrett, but I have a feeling she may have signed a WWE developmental deal), but I guess that they'll stick with women under their system... {Spoiler}It's one of the Blossoms next week.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 14:59:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I figure they'll let her run through a few "challengers" before debuting someone new that will become a part of the main roster.
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Post by screamqueenfan on Nov 8, 2013 16:03:02 GMT -5
SOR has been proven wrong in what fans want to see regarding women's wrestling. TNA's KO Division when it had Kong, Gail, Sarah Stock, Nikki Roxx, Angelina, Hamada, etc their segments and matches had higher ratings than any other segments on Impact. Women's wrestling drew because it had credible names, solid wrestling, storylines AND sex appeal. But once Hogan and Bischoff entered the fray the Division died out. They couldn't handle the fact that the women were more interesting and better draws than the men.
If TNA had any sense they would recreate the old division by having a diverse roster again. But honestly anyone I like or think has talent like Leva or Mia I wouldn't want to work there. TNA is a cesspool.
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Nov 8, 2013 16:36:13 GMT -5
SOR has been proven wrong in what fans want to see regarding women's wrestling. TNA's KO Division when it had Kong, Gail, Sarah Stock, Nikki Roxx, Angelina, Hamada, etc their segments and matches had higher ratings than any other segments on Impact. Women's wrestling drew because it had credible names, solid wrestling, storylines AND sex appeal. But once Hogan and Bischoff entered the fray the Division died out. They couldn't handle the fact that the women were more interesting and better draws than the men. If TNA had any sense they would recreate the old division by having a diverse roster again. But honestly anyone I like or think has talent like Leva or Mia I wouldn't want to work there. TNA is a cesspool. In before comment about Terry Taylor saying it was the slot they were put in, not their actual drawing power. Which, when you do a now vs then comparison is completely disproven.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Nov 8, 2013 18:33:27 GMT -5
I say this every time one of these types of threads come up but if TNA presented women's wrestling as something other than filler and/or eye candy it could really get over. Of course the women will have to be presented as sexy but they would also have to be presented as legitimate competitive athletes. Take Ronda Rousey for instance, she does really good numbers for UFC as far as I know, she's sexy but she's also competitive, highly skilled and will beat your ass given the chance. If women's wrestling tried something like that instead of hiring second rate strippers and having them act bitchy towards each other and instead presented them as legitimate athletes that want the women's title and gave them decent angles it would get over. Instead women's wrestling is still stuck in the dark ages of having a half dressed chick out there for the sake of popping the dudes in the audiences boners. This is the big problem, though: Even that "would" keep women's wrestling as a niche part of pro wrestling. It's not about talent, looks, or star power- it's the fact that fans are conditioned to believe, throughout wrestling, the World Title is the BIGGEST title in each company. It's the same reason any good cruiserweight/X-Divisioner has to go into the World Title picture to REALLY be seen as a mega-star, or why tag teams have to split up when they become entrenched so both guys can make a run for the World Title. Even tag team wrestling/X-Division wrestling are 'ALSO' niche parts of pro wrestling. This IS why women's wrestling- whether the division's subletted out to SHIMMER or subletted out to Playboy as a place to give the most recent Playmates a chance to play TV star- will ALWAYS be the niche market. Can a great X-Division champion move up a weight limit to be TNA World Champion? It happens all the time. Can a great tag team competitor go into the singles ranks to be World Champion? Absolutely- that also happens all the time. By contrast, no matter how good the wrestler is, how BIG the wrestler is, how big a star the wrestler is- we're just never going to see a top woman's wrestler win a men's World Title. It's not about talent, sex appeal, size, Q rating- it's just never going to happen. The only hope to REALLY make women's wrestling get out of the dark ages will not be by a simple "more SHIMMER", "more sex appeal", "more big stars", or any quick fix like that- it'll be by a promotion turning all their 'niche' title divisions into a more real fighting sport-influenced weight class-style structure where the TNA Heavyweight Title, TNA X-Division Title, TNA Tag Titles, and TNA Knockouts Title are ALL recognized as the World Title of their weight classes. Yes, TNA would need to raid SHIMMER to make it work just to have a bigger roster- just like they'd need to raid the indies for the best tag teams and the best cruiserweights to make it work.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Nov 8, 2013 19:55:19 GMT -5
Wouldn't mind seeing Trinity come back for short run with the Knockouts title. She is like 40 now, but she's in fantastic shape after seeing her at the Knockouts PPV.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,717
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Post by Glitch on Nov 8, 2013 22:56:18 GMT -5
I can easily see scantly clad and nude women on the internet, but I prefer that they take up precious air time on a wrestling show! Surely this will have no negative effects, or make the company look even more ridiculous.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Nov 8, 2013 23:13:53 GMT -5
Getting back to the actual angle, I'd have to wonder who they have planned as the endgame here. All of the "big name" women are way out of TNA's price range and I can't think of a single Indie woman who would really be that much of a game changer. On the other hand, hiring a few more women wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. At the very least, it will add some different matches in the Knockout's Division.
They did end up getting a fairly impressive list of names for their Knockouts PPV, some maybe something cool will pan out.
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Post by Piccolo on Nov 8, 2013 23:46:03 GMT -5
SOR has been proven wrong in what fans want to see regarding women's wrestling. TNA's KO Division when it had Kong, Gail, Sarah Stock, Nikki Roxx, Angelina, Hamada, etc their segments and matches had higher ratings than any other segments on Impact. Women's wrestling drew because it had credible names, solid wrestling, storylines AND sex appeal. But once Hogan and Bischoff entered the fray the Division died out. They couldn't handle the fact that the women were more interesting and better draws than the men. If TNA had any sense they would recreate the old division by having a diverse roster again. But honestly anyone I like or think has talent like Leva or Mia I wouldn't want to work there. TNA is a cesspool. The only reason I ever watched TNA was for their knockout division. So fantastic. Some have critiqued women's wrestling here as too niche, but niches have their place in bringing an audience... they can keep a show fresh, buoy a show if another segment is floundering, and potentially open up the product to a previously-untapped customer pool. If you have the chance to build some strong niche elements into your show, you should absolutely do it.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Nov 9, 2013 0:54:22 GMT -5
The Knockouts used to be worth watching. Now its straight trash.
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Post by rowdy426 on Nov 9, 2013 10:48:28 GMT -5
The only female that would spike any possible outside interest is Trish, and that isn't happening...
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Nov 9, 2013 10:59:26 GMT -5
As soon as I saw this thread go longer than a page, I knew who had posted in it, and what he was going to say. Never ceases to bemuse me. Please don't try and bait me. I said my piece and left everyone else to discuss it after a bit of back and forth. I apologize that my opinion differs from yours and that it bemuses you. SOR has been proven wrong in what fans want to see regarding women's wrestling. TNA's KO Division when it had Kong, Gail, Sarah Stock, Nikki Roxx, Angelina, Hamada, etc their segments and matches had higher ratings than any other segments on Impact. Women's wrestling drew because it had credible names, solid wrestling, storylines AND sex appeal. But once Hogan and Bischoff entered the fray the Division died out. They couldn't handle the fact that the women were more interesting and better draws than the men. If TNA had any sense they would recreate the old division by having a diverse roster again. But honestly anyone I like or think has talent like Leva or Mia I wouldn't want to work there. TNA is a cesspool. A poster tried to discredit the theory of them being put in a beneficial time slot but that's why they did good ratings. You have guys channel surfing, they see attractive women doing something that attractive women don't usually do so they stick with it. If you look at the old episodes. The top of the half hour it was always the Knockouts. As soon as the Knockouts got some kind of main event or a match away from the beneficial time slot (Which is the start of each 30 minute period) the ratings were the same as everything else. Did the Knockouts ever draw anyone to an arena? Did the Knockouts ever get someone to buy a PPV? Do you honestly think an Awesome Kong Vs Gail Kim match could headline a Pay Per View and be successful buyrate wise?
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Nov 9, 2013 11:42:42 GMT -5
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Nov 9, 2013 11:52:07 GMT -5
And you've all allowed SOR to crash a thread into the ground with his talking points memo. Well done.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 9, 2013 11:55:10 GMT -5
Well, it's nice to see they're getting some kind of competition for Gail.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,717
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Post by Glitch on Nov 10, 2013 12:42:34 GMT -5
SOR has been proven wrong in what fans want to see regarding women's wrestling. TNA's KO Division when it had Kong, Gail, Sarah Stock, Nikki Roxx, Angelina, Hamada, etc their segments and matches had higher ratings than any other segments on Impact. Women's wrestling drew because it had credible names, solid wrestling, storylines AND sex appeal. But once Hogan and Bischoff entered the fray the Division died out. They couldn't handle the fact that the women were more interesting and better draws than the men. If TNA had any sense they would recreate the old division by having a diverse roster again. But honestly anyone I like or think has talent like Leva or Mia I wouldn't want to work there. TNA is a cesspool. A poster tried to discredit the theory of them being put in a beneficial time slot but that's why they did good ratings. You have guys channel surfing, they see attractive women doing something that attractive women don't usually do so they stick with it. If you look at the old episodes. The top of the half hour it was always the Knockouts. As soon as the Knockouts got some kind of main event or a match away from the beneficial time slot (Which is the start of each 30 minute period) the ratings were the same as everything else. Did the Knockouts ever draw anyone to an arena? Did the Knockouts ever get someone to buy a PPV? Do you honestly think an Awesome Kong Vs Gail Kim match could headline a Pay Per View and be successful buyrate wise? I find it amusing you keep insisting that tna should rely on horn dog males who accidentally stumble upon the channel. Like that is somehow the only customer that would matter. There are other demographics that could work much better as demonstrated by this FEMALE user who posted this right down here: SOR has been proven wrong in what fans want to see regarding women's wrestling. TNA's KO Division when it had Kong, Gail, Sarah Stock, Nikki Roxx, Angelina, Hamada, etc their segments and matches had higher ratings than any other segments on Impact. Women's wrestling drew because it had credible names, solid wrestling, storylines AND sex appeal. But once Hogan and Bischoff entered the fray the Division died out. They couldn't handle the fact that the women were more interesting and better draws than the men. If TNA had any sense they would recreate the old division by having a diverse roster again. But honestly anyone I like or think has talent like Leva or Mia I wouldn't want to work there. TNA is a cesspool. The only reason I ever watched TNA was for their knockout division. So fantastic. Some have critiqued women's wrestling here as too niche, but niches have their place in bringing an audience... they can keep a show fresh, buoy a show if another segment is floundering, and potentially open up the product to a previously-untapped customer pool. If you have the chance to build some strong niche elements into your show, you should absolutely do it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 13:00:51 GMT -5
Irrational SHIMMER hate aside, I wonder how similar this will be to Awesome Kong's open challenges. Could be a nice vehicle to introduce new talent at the very least. You know, I thought that was one of the highlights of those early Knockouts matches. Because there was no way anybody could compete with her, but you watched anyway to see who was getting slaughtered that week. I honestly could not believe that, out of all the Kong open challenges, Taylor Wilde beat her. But then I started watching more to see where this goes, and Taylor held her own, to the point she was one of my favorites and I watched more of the program. Then the KO Division blossomed. Angelina Love, ODB, Velvet Sky, Roxxi, Alissa Flash, Hamada. Yeah, there were some that didn't belong anywhere near a ring, but the good overwhelmed the bad by a wide margin. Sometimes all it takes is one good kick to jump-start something. Gotta try at least. The only way it gets worse is if you just completely ignore it. Then people forget.
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